match the kesler offer??

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Should the Canucks exercise their right to match Kesler's offer from the Flyers?

Heck yes
28
57%
Hell no
21
43%
 
Total votes : 49

Postby Tukaram » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:45 pm

Vegas_Nucks_Fan wrote:Let him go. Don't blame Clarke too much, I'm sure Kesler and his agent know full well what would happen and wanted the big check.

Let's see.... $1.9mil for 10 goals.... that's what?.....$190,000 per goal?


He's being paid like Jeff Friesen, so therefore he should produce like Jeff Friesen. ;)
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Postby spudpicker » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:59 pm

Here's how it is... We HAVE to sign Kesler! I think we all agree that we don't want to, but I can't see how we let him go... This kid looked great last year.. Don't get hung up on the 1.9 for 10 goals thing, we prolly had the toughest 1rst and 2nd line to crack in all of hockey last year, so playing time was a definite factor in his offensive numbers. He brought more to our team than that.. he is a developing 2-way player that has upside in every aspect of the game. Also, I can't help but think that with all the players we lost, DN had to have been depending BIG on Kesler this season.. I say sign him to 1.9, but try to swing a 3 year deal outta it. If ya can't, sign him anyway, and re-evaluate next season.. We've lost too much already.... Roberto can't do it ALL himself... DN messed up, Clarke is a donkey, sign Kelser and move on.
Last edited by spudpicker on Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ronning's Ghost » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:02 pm

I know the Canucks have invested quite a bit in Kesler, but at this point I'd prefer the cap space and the second rounder.

As I recall, his projected career upside was 'elite' third liner. I think that's just too much money for that kind of player under the current CBA.
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Re: nonis' fault

Postby MarkMM » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:02 pm

Haida Knucklehead wrote:I say match. The Cancucks have 3 years invested in Kesler and a 2nd rounder is a crap shoot at best. We know Kesler can play in the NHL, but a 2nd round next year would mean waiting 4-5 years if we are lucky.


I don't blame Kesler for signing the offer sheet and I don't blame Clarke for trying. He is playing within the rules. I blame Nonis for dragging out the signing of Kesler. Trying to save a hundred grand or two cost the Canucks a million or so. Plus Kesler will have to be qualified at 1.9 next year.

Nonis will now have to dump some salary to get under the self imposed cap.

Nice going. Put a damper on a positive summer of work.


What we invested in him makes it more painful to let him go, yes, but that's not the issue on the table now. Last I checked, we were trying to win the Stanley Cup this year, not the past 2-3 years, so what we need to ask is whether or not matching helps us or hurts us this year and the next and beyond. There are cases on both sides, but that's the question.

For me, $1.9 million precludes us from signing a player or players that are worth $1.9 million, it by definition is a downgrade on the roster to match him, as painful as it is to lose him, and as much as it sucks to get a 2nd rounder in return, keep in mind that in the cap era, cap space itself is an era. Matching Kesler means we keep him, but we give up the asset of cap space which can help us add depth or load up a player at the deadline who is much more valuable.
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Postby dangler » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:08 pm

[quote="SRsez" See if he can earn his money.[/quote]

For once I must agree with SR sez
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Postby Cookie La Rue » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:46 pm

Imo they should keep him just because Carter is gone and no more money needed for him.
Let's see how Kesler will prove that he's worth his salary....
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Postby Bret H » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:34 am

Don't match the offer... way overpaid. If Kesler turns out a superstar, well... tough luck, but I would still think it was right to let him go.

Can always try to use two of our 2nd rounders to bring in someone to fill Kesler's place. Someone who is paid what he's worth.
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Postby MarkMM » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:39 am

Bret H wrote:Don't match the offer... way overpaid. If Kesler turns out a superstar, well... tough luck, but I would still think it was right to let him go.

Can always try to use two of our 2nd rounders to bring in someone to fill Kesler's place. Someone who is paid what he's worth.


Agreed, except that with Anaheim's and Los Angeles' picks (Carlyle compensation and Cloutier trade, iirc), we have FOUR 2nd picks.

I've always been for holding on to our picks and restocking our pipeline, but now it's getting to the point where we can have our cake (prospects) and eat it, too (make a trade at the deadline, with the accumulated $1.9 million by the deadline, and given how teams out of the playoffs are often in firesale mode, we can get something WAY better than Kes for our playoff run).
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Postby rikster » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:39 am

Not sure if this can be done, but why not have the best of both worlds?...

Match the offer sheet and then send him to Manitoba for the year and at the end of the year when he is again restricted try to sign him at their terms early or deal him for more than the second round pick?...

I'm assuming sending him to Manitoba takes him off the Nucks cap books...


Take care...
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Postby MarkMM » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:41 am

Bret H wrote:Don't match the offer... way overpaid. If Kesler turns out a superstar, well... tough luck, but I would still think it was right to let him go.

Can always try to use two of our 2nd rounders to bring in someone to fill Kesler's place. Someone who is paid what he's worth.


Agreed, except that with Anaheim's and Los Angeles' picks (Carlyle compensation and Cloutier trade, iirc), we have FOUR 2nd picks.

I've always been for holding on to our picks and restocking our pipeline, but now it's getting to the point where we can have our cake (prospects) and eat it, too (make a trade at the deadline, with the accumulated $1.9 million by the deadline, and given how teams out of the playoffs are often in firesale mode, we can get something WAY better than Kes for our playoff run).

In the meantime, is Chouinard on the fourth really that big a drop off from Kesler? Santala or Rypien on the fourth is a bit iffy, but still, it is the fourth line, not sure it's worth spending $1.9 mil so that we can keep our depth, moving Kes to the right side might help a bit more in the argument to keep him, but for that money, I think we could find someone with a more offensive upside, which Kes was NEVER projected to have.
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Postby the Cunning Linguist » Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:23 am

If we match, the rules state that we cannot trade Kesler for a year.

Were it not for the cap, I'd say match it, but the cap reality is that Vancouver cannot afford this. Take the 2nd round pick, and your lumps and learn from this.
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Postby MarkMM » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:06 am

rikster wrote:Not sure if this can be done, but why not have the best of both worlds?...

Match the offer sheet and then send him to Manitoba for the year and at the end of the year when he is again restricted try to sign him at their terms early or deal him for more than the second round pick?...

I'm assuming sending him to Manitoba takes him off the Nucks cap books...


Take care...


I think it's allowed, we'd have to bite the $1.9 million to play in Manitoba but it would be off the books. I think the downside is that we effectively lose an asset, even letting him walk we at least get a 2nd round pick in return. Also, next season we'd still need to qualify him at $1.9 million or more, and I doubt he'd be worth that still a year from now. I'm also not sure he'd be good in the lockeroom, still steaming over being Winterpegged.
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Postby Canuck-One » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:19 am

Sigh...I think a lot of you guys ran from the bully or coughed up your lunch money. It doesn't matter whether Kesler is worth the 1.9 it does matter how DN is perceived by the rest of the GM fraternity. Does he appear weak and roll over for Clarke or does he say kiss my a** It has already been reported that Clarke told Nonis to cough up Kesler ( AKA your lunch money) or he would take him anyway with an offer sheet. So what should Nonis do besides the manditory matching? Unfortunately Clarke's RFA's are all signed this year so you can't give him a swift kick in the cookies but you can take your time to target one or more in the future. The best way to do that is to tell Clarke right now that you intend to take Pitkanen next year and let him sweat the whole year trying to get Pitkanen to sign before his RFA status comes up. In fact I would even suggest as much in the Media just to inflate whatever price Clarke has to pay by informing Pitkanen that he will have an option.
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Postby Bret H » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:34 am

Mark MM wrote:
Bret H wrote:
Don't match the offer... way overpaid. If Kesler turns out a superstar, well... tough luck, but I would still think it was right to let him go.

Can always try to use two of our 2nd rounders to bring in someone to fill Kesler's place. Someone who is paid what he's worth.


Agreed, except that with Anaheim's and Los Angeles' picks (Carlyle compensation and Cloutier trade, iirc), we have FOUR 2nd picks.


Yes, I know... that's why I said we should use TWO of our picks. No big deal because we would still have two left... don't blame you though, it was easy to misread it.

... and "no big deal" shall not be taken to literally... two 2nd rounders is still two 2nd rounders, no matter how many picks you have left. But it sure feels a bit easier to trade them if you still have a few left.
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Postby Canuck-One » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:38 am

Just read where some of you think sticking Kesler in the minors would be a good thing. Nonis wants to keep his job and burying an asset isn't going to keep it for him. Don't blame the kid for accepting a million dollars for goodness sake, anyone of you would do the same and if you give that loyalty bullshit I'll know you're a liar. Do any of you remeber Kelly Buchberger who for years took less than market value to play for the Oilers and each time he signed for less the Oiler management raved on and on about loyalty. Well the day came in his career that the Oilers felt they could get someone cheaper and a little bit younger to do the job and bye bye Kelly, so much for loyalty. No you don't owe loyalty, it's a business and you make what you can, when you can, but even after saying that, I will say that you owe the team, just as any of us do, the best you've got for as long as they are paying you, just as you owe your employer your best, no more no less.
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