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Postby ververgaert » Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:57 pm

I"ve always liked Eric Cairns. He's 6'6 241 tough as nails, mean, a defenceman who was evn or a plus in 40 + of his last 52 games on lower end teams. Pittsburg has him know, they got him from Florida for a 6th round pick. Maybe somone here could find out what he's making(damn cap). I dont think Nonis would have to give up too much for him. I dunno but there's one idea.
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Postby MarkMM » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:38 pm

ververgaert wrote:I"ve always liked Eric Cairns. He's 6'6 241 tough as nails, mean, a defenceman who was evn or a plus in 40 + of his last 52 games on lower end teams. Pittsburg has him know, they got him from Florida for a 6th round pick. Maybe somone here could find out what he's making(damn cap). I dont think Nonis would have to give up too much for him. I dunno but there's one idea.


$589,000, not bad at all.

Brings toughness and experience, something we're looking for anyway, and his liabilities should be kept in check if we play him sparingly, but he can log ice-time without sparking laughter. I wouldn't mind him for a 7th d-man...

Assets Is a very hard hitter and solid team player. Plays effectively when he stays within his limitations. Is an above-average fighter.
Flaws Has major skating deficiencies. Is vulnerable against speedy wingers. Can hurt his team with bad penalties. Isn't talented enough to log regular minutes.
Career potential Physical defenseman.

Ohlund - Salo
Mitchell - Krajicek
Bourdon - Bieksa
Cairns

Tremblay, Edler

As for trade-bait, I dunno, if he got picked up for a 6th, would he cost much more than that? After training camp, we might sign a few walk-ons, making someone else on the low-end of the depth chart expendable, also, I'm not suggesting this necessarily for Cairns (certainly not by himself), but is it too late to trade Noronen's rights? Has he signed with the team in Russia or just expressed his desire to play there? Maybe we can trade him to another team in time for him to play this season, and get something in return, if we do trade him to Pits, we could get Cairns and something else in return.
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Postby MinnesotaCanuck » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:22 am

I agree that Cairns would be a decent acquisition. He is a big guy who can fight and still play hockey.

My point from earlier in this discussion was that a guy who is strictly a fighter is not particularly useful in the lineup -- much like a defenseman who is only effective on the powerplay. The balanced lineup that the Canucks seem to be putting together this offseason won't be effective with one-dimensional players unless they are among the elite talents in the league in that area. The lineup will struggle in the longterm if it is built for balanced scoring and team defense but has players like Peter Worrell on the wing and Yannik Tremblay on defense.

The lesser talented 'specialty' players will work if they suit for select games, but they will almost certainly need two-way contracts to justify inclusion on the roster with cap space being so tight.
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Postby MarkMM » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:26 am

Agreed MC, I have no problem if a player has a specialty, but they better be at least serviceable in other areas.
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Postby Fred » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:40 am

The lineup will struggle in the longterm if it is built for balanced scoring and team defense but has players like Peter Worrell on the wing and Yannik Tremblay on defense


Why ?

These are 4th line players, not many teams rely on their 4th line to win the game, and, if you have players lile that on the 4th line guess what you skilled top end players end up getting more ice.

The Canucks barely got any production from their 4th line last season

With the amount of P/P in the "new" NHL the power play is becoming a deciding factor in the game, why not have a specialist. I don't know the differential between P/P goals and even strength goals but I bet the difference was in favour of the P/P goals
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Postby MinnesotaCanuck » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:40 am

I'm saying that the team can't count on getting scoring from all four lines and solid D from all three pairs if they try to get guys like these on regular shifts. I agree that Tremblay would have more value than a fighter because the power play unit will be on the ice for 10-14 minutes per game.
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Postby magnum44 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:31 pm

With Naslund still being the captain and offensive star of the team and the Sedins taking on a more prominent role I think we still need an enforcer around. Ideally it would be a guy who can actually play the game at a high enough level to actually be dressed on a nightly basis. I don't necessarily think you need a premiere heavywieght. Brad May, Darren Mccarty type middlewieghts will suffice. Those type of guys will take on heavyweights if they have to and usually lose but won't be humiliated. Between the instigator penalty, fines/suspensions to players and coaches and the "enforcers code" average players don't really have to worry about goons and should actually benefit from being matched up against them. Its the Ruutus, Gauthiers, Averys of the league and the callups looking to make a name that players need to worry about. Having tough guys doesn't really deter those guys all that much but not having them is just asking for trouble. I think the emotional boost a team gets from contrived heavyweight matchups is over rated, but seeing someone passionately stick up for a team mate after a cheap hit, kick the shit out of a pest, etc does provide a definate boost to energy levels.
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Postby MinnesotaCanuck » Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:35 pm

magnum44 wrote:With Naslund still being the captain and offensive star of the team and the Sedins taking on a more prominent role I think we still need an enforcer around. Ideally it would be a guy who can actually play the game at a high enough level to actually be dressed on a nightly basis. I don't necessarily think you need a premiere heavywieght. Brad May, Darren Mccarty type middlewieghts will suffice. Those type of guys will take on heavyweights if they have to and usually lose but won't be humiliated. Between the instigator penalty, fines/suspensions to players and coaches and the "enforcers code" average players don't really have to worry about goons and should actually benefit from being matched up against them. Its the Ruutus, Gauthiers, Averys of the league and the callups looking to make a name that players need to worry about. Having tough guys doesn't really deter those guys all that much but not having them is just asking for trouble. I think the emotional boost a team gets from contrived heavyweight matchups is over rated, but seeing someone passionately stick up for a team mate after a cheap hit, kick the shit out of a pest, etc does provide a definate boost to energy levels.


Very well put. I agree with you entirely here.
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Postby Madcombinepilot » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:29 pm

While I agree that having a heavyweight (that can play) in the lineup is a good thing, i will add that in a game where somone takes a run at one of our stars, responding is important. It's important to respong to the guy who did the running. If all we do is run one of thier stars, the game suffers. If a guy runs naslund, you run that guy. And while the Cookes, Burrows and tose types play with a bit more of an edge with a heavy in the lineup, its important that the heavy is used properly. he has to take a semi-regular shift. Most importantly, when he answers the bell, he doesn't have to win each and every time, but he sure as heck can't lose.

Ever since we lost Brad May, I have been saying we need a solid middlewieght. May was a guy that played a regular shift and was smart enough to know when to answer the bell. He fought heavies. He didn't win. Even when he lost to laroque, he didn't lose badly. it was almost a draw... but it was a heavy vs a middleweight. He wasn't expected to win. But at that moment, the bell had to be answered. If Brookbank got beat by laroque, the intimdation is gone. and so is the saftey for our stars. If May gets beat by Laroque, no big deal. He should get beat by laroque. Heck, some of the Oilers that game gave May more respect because he stood up to big George in the first place... the important thing about May, is that unless the other guy got in that first good wallop, he didn't lose fights in the middle weight class... and the other team was never sure when he was on the ice.


we need to be looking for a 26 year old Brad May type.
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Postby Canuck2 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:29 am

Bartman wrote:Personally I don't agree but for arguments sake let's assume both that you are correct and that Nonis is going to address the situation. Who would you recommend that he goes after?


John Erskine - 6'4" 215lbs
From all that I have read, a very good fighter that is more than game to go...see bouts with Cam Janssen. More of a light heavyweight considering how big some of the HWs are these days. Can play D too.

Stephen Peat - 6'3" 230lbs
Does he have a contract with the Carolina organization? A tough BC boy. Not sure about playing skills or lack there of.

Matt Kassian - 6'4" 236lbs
Minnesota property but they have Boogard already. Ex-Vancouver Giant. Maybe not yet ready for the NHL but would love to see this guy in a Moose jersey.

I agree Cairns would be great but can he play D? I wonder if Chris McAllister still has any fire left in him to drop them. And too bad about Ryan Flinn's busted up head, he was an animal when he got his chance.
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Postby Canuck2 » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:05 pm

Strike Peat off my list, he just signed with Carolina. In a strange way, I hope a team like Calgary comes into GM Place and just tears the Canucks apart, inflicting some real hurt on some of the players making $3million+...Nonis not addressing the lack of toughness on this team is really starting to piss me off.
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Postby sk8er » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:38 pm

Canuck2 wrote:Strike Peat off my list, he just signed with Carolina. In a strange way, I hope a team like Calgary comes into GM Place and just tears the Canucks apart, inflicting some real hurt on some of the players making $3million+...Nonis not addressing the lack of toughness on this team is really starting to piss me off.
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Postby Jovorock » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:10 am

Canuck2 wrote:Matt Kassian - 6'4" 236lbs
Minnesota property but they have Boogard already. Ex-Vancouver Giant. Maybe not yet ready for the NHL but would love to see this guy in a Moose jersey.

Kassian maybe the toughest guy in the WHL, but if he fought in the same day of a Parker, Peat or Boogard he would of gotten killed! Last year Kassian didn't even dominate a fight verses a 16 year old Luke Schenn.

Don't put him into the big boys status YET!
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Postby Canuck2 » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:46 pm

How does the overage rule work in the WHL, is Kassian affected by the rule?

Jovorock, you wouldn't have any video of a few of Kassian's fights from last year that you could post on youtube, would you? There are a few that I found but not enough, the line-brawl between Kamploops and Regina was nice to see.
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Postby Jovorock » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:42 am

Your allowed three 20 year olds per team, Matt will be 20 in October. Anyone after (I think) September 20th born is counted as the next year. There for he is not counted as a 20 year old this year.

I don't have a fight tape of the Blazers, I can see if my buddy has one.

http://whl.ca/en/stats/player.php?id=23125
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