Would you do a Gagne for Naslund trade straight up?

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Gagne for Naslund trade straight up

Yes
12
29%
No Philly needs to give more
22
54%
No Vancouver needs to give more
1
2%
Dont trade Naslund at all EVER
6
15%
 
Total votes : 41

Postby SRsez » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:12 am

MinnesotaCanuck wrote:Compare Naslund's numbers (in a down year, no less) to other similarly paid players.

Iginla: 35 goals, 32 assists ($7M in 06-07)
Havlat: (projected over 82 games) 41 goals, 31 assists ($6M in 06-07)
Tanguay: 29 goals, 49 assists ($5M in 06-07)
Lecavalier: 35 goals, 40 assists ($7M+ in 06-07)
St. Louis: 31 goals, 30 assists ($6M in 06-07)


Way to completely not understand the point in any facet. Compare to the most overpaid idiots in the entire league, and then try to make some asinine insinuation that in that regard, he wasn't overpaid. :roll:

Why don't you just lay the blame on his best buddy, as if that was some sort of excuse too.
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Postby SRsez » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:17 am

kingofrockstars wrote:
SRsez wrote:
kingofrockstars wrote:Those who say that Naslund is a bad captain didn't watch the man stand in front of 20,000 fans and live television and admit that his team choked.


Why do you give credit for a guy only owning up to the facts? You neglect the real problem - he let the team he is supposed to lead choke. That unquestionably makes him a bad captain, despite your unfounded "respect".


That's the point. He did own up to it. Why is respect in quotes?


No, you don't make points in admitting the facts. Owning up to the fact you didn't do your job isn't admirable, it's a reason to be fired for incompetence.
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Postby MinnesotaCanuck » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:20 am

SRsez wrote:
MinnesotaCanuck wrote:Compare Naslund's numbers (in a down year, no less) to other similarly paid players.

Iginla: 35 goals, 32 assists ($7M in 06-07)
Havlat: (projected over 82 games) 41 goals, 31 assists ($6M in 06-07)
Tanguay: 29 goals, 49 assists ($5M in 06-07)
Lecavalier: 35 goals, 40 assists ($7M+ in 06-07)
St. Louis: 31 goals, 30 assists ($6M in 06-07)


Way to completely not understand the point in any facet. Compare to the most overpaid idiots in the entire league, and then try to make some asinine insinuation that in that regard, he wasn't overpaid. :roll:

Why don't you just lay the blame on his best buddy, as if that was some sort of excuse too.


You still haven't defended your argument at all. I'm challenging you to debate your point of view with facts, not aimlessly attack mine.
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Postby MinnesotaCanuck » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:22 am

I'm guessing I will need to be more direct to get you to answer the question:

Who could the Canucks have reasonably acquired that would have matched Naslund's production (32 goals, 47 assists) for $4M last year?
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Postby SRsez » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:53 am

MinnesotaCanuck wrote:I'm guessing I will need to be more direct to get you to answer the question:

Who could the Canucks have reasonably acquired that would have matched Naslund's production (32 goals, 47 assists) for $4M last year?


Well considering they got more goals for $1M, I'm thinking 47 assists shouldn't be too terribly hard to get for the other $3M.

But the fact remains: Naslund was grossly overpaid for the little he accomplished last season.
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Postby MinnesotaCanuck » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:39 am

SRsez wrote:
MinnesotaCanuck wrote:I'm guessing I will need to be more direct to get you to answer the question:

Who could the Canucks have reasonably acquired that would have matched Naslund's production (32 goals, 47 assists) for $4M last year?


Well considering they got more goals for $1M, I'm thinking 47 assists shouldn't be too terribly hard to get for the other $3M.

But the fact remains: Naslund was grossly overpaid for the little he accomplished last season.


The way you avoid actual discussion is disheartening.

Naslund was a point per game player last year. He was injured for half of the season, but he managed to play in all but one game. To mean, that makes him a great player and a good leader. He finished in a tie for 27th in total points last season.
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Postby SRsez » Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:45 am

MinnesotaCanuck wrote:The way you avoid actual discussion is disheartening.


Tell you what, make a point worth discussing, then we can start.


MinnesotaCanuck wrote:Naslund was a point per game player last year. He was injured for half of the season, but he managed to play in all but one game. To me(an), that makes him a great player and a good leader. He finished in a tie for 27th in total points last season.


And I'm glad you feel that way. The problem is this great leader, 27th in points, was outscored by a teammate & failed to get his team into the playoffs. That makes him what he's always been: an overpaid underachiever that floats defensively & never comes through when it counts.
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Postby MinnesotaCanuck » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:13 pm

was outscored by a teammate


He led the team in points with 79. Carter scored exactly one more goal than him, but had 25 fewer assists.

That makes him what he's always been: an overpaid underachiever that floats defensively


I'm interested to hear what your expectations of Naslund were over the last 4 seasons. Here's his stats, in case you missed them:

05-06 32 goals 47 assists 79 points -19
03-04 35 goals 49 assists 84 points +24
02-03 48 goals 56 assists 104 points +6
01-02 40 goals 50 assists 90 points +22

I've made my point several times, and I don't believe you've said anything that refutes it. Thanks for the debate.
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Postby Kowch » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:50 pm

SRsez wrote:And I'm glad you feel that way. The problem is this great leader, 27th in points, was outscored by a teammate & failed to get his team into the playoffs. That makes him what he's always been: an overpaid underachiever that floats defensively & never comes through when it counts.


I'm not going to speak for MinnesotaCanuck or aruge on his behalf, but how can you discount Naslund being injured so flippantly? It's not like was taking nights off - you could see he just didn't have the speed he normally does. It got better after having time off during the Olympic break and I'm sure he'll be 100% for the start of this year.

Or is having an injury not a good enough reason for him to have had a bit of a slump?

Same goes for Morrison.
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Postby Grizzly » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:55 pm

Or is having an injury not a good enough reason for him to have had a bit of a slump?

Same goes for Morrison.


I think last year was just a year of frustration all the way around ... Cloutier out, Naslund and Mo playing hurt ... all the contoversy with Bert Crow etc. Personally I would never ever question Naslunds effort or work ethic. As far as leadership ... he was caught in a rock and hard place on many occasions and with the various controveries he had a tough time at times dealing with it ... everything just became more magnified when the team didn't make the playoffs and of course fingers were pointed and people started looking for scapegoats etc.

Was he an overpaid underachiever ?? Well his production was down for sure and the team as a whole didn't ultimately succeed ... should that fall squarely on Naslunds shoulders ... No not entirely ... but certainly as the captain he must accept some responsibility. I personally wouldn't say Naslund was an overpaid underachiever but I would say he had a tough year and at times for whatever reasons didn't completely live up to what we might expect of him.

With Bert gone and hopefully Naslund at 100% health I think we should see better things. Is Naslund the guy to lead the team in the next few years ... maybe but IMO probably not as he is now 33 and likely will be gone in the next year or two.

My thoughts anyhow ...

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Postby MarkMM » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:02 pm

Naslund had a bad season but still did better than most, is a good value superstar for $6 million with what else is being paid around the league, to say he's "outscored" by a player who gets one measley more goal with over 20 less assists for a salary widely acknowledged to be a discount based on Carter's previous lack of consistency versus Naslund's ability to be in the elite the past few years, all while Naslund was injured, his centre was injured and his RW'er wasn't present versus Carter and the Sedins being healthy throughout the season doesn't hold water.
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Postby VHF » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:10 pm

MarkMM wrote:Naslund had a bad season but still did better than most, is a good value superstar for $6 million with what else is being paid around the league, to say he's "outscored" by a player who gets one measley more goal with over 20 less assists for a salary widely acknowledged to be a discount based on Carter's previous lack of consistency versus Naslund's ability to be in the elite the past few years, all while Naslund was injured, his centre was injured and his RW'er wasn't present versus Carter and the Sedins being healthy throughout the season doesn't hold water.


That's one big long ROS! :lol: ;)
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Postby Canuck2 » Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:33 pm

This is a tough one for me...lots of pros and cons here. If Gagne would sign for like $4-5 million per (pipe-dream?), than I would do the deal. Naslund is a pretty good deal at $6 million these days.
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Postby SRsez » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:31 pm

Get serious here, Grizz, only last year was a year of frustration?

It's not as though last year was the first time Naslund & Bertuzzi looked like the damn floating Ice Capades.

MarkMM, just what has he ever accomplished? A scoring title? An MVP? A Richard trophy? Any playoff success whatsoever?

One measly division title, and a whole host of underachievement. Or perhaps you think Wes Walz should usually outscore Naslund in a 7 game playoff series. That right there is reason Naslund does not deserve the title or respect of being a "superstar". He's not even close to being one.

And mostly because his team was unable to beat a crappy team like Calgary.

Even if you think Calgary was some great team, there's still no freaking way to excuse Naslund for all the stuff he & his buddy didn't accomplish.
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Postby Grizzly » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:39 am

SRsez wrote:Get serious here, Grizz, only last year was a year of frustration?

It's not as though last year was the first time Naslund & Bertuzzi looked like the damn floating Ice Capades.

MarkMM, just what has he ever accomplished? A scoring title? An MVP? A Richard trophy? Any playoff success whatsoever?

One measly division title, and a whole host of underachievement. Or perhaps you think Wes Walz should usually outscore Naslund in a 7 game playoff series. That right there is reason Naslund does not deserve the title or respect of being a "superstar". He's not even close to being one.

And mostly because his team was unable to beat a crappy team like Calgary.

Even if you think Calgary was some great team, there's still no freaking way to excuse Naslund for all the stuff he & his buddy didn't accomplish.


Don't like the guy a whole lot do you SRsez ??

No Naslund hasn't won anything big ... but to say that he is "not even close" to being a superstar is a bit of a stretch ... I think you would find even Flames fans suggesting he is in an elite group of players. Anyways ... I guess it just becomes a matter of opinion and what you consider to be your own definition of the term "Superstar".

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