Hirsch calls NHLers in Europe 'scabs'

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Hirsch calls NHLers in Europe 'scabs'

Postby Jovorock » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:40 am

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=103166

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Hirsch calls NHLers in Europe 'scabs'


TSN.ca Staff

10/30/2004

Corey Hirsch played in 100 games with the Vancouver Canucks in the 1990's but he is not too happy with today's NHL players.

Hirsch was playing for the SCL Tigers of the Swiss "A" League but has been sidelined in favour of Martin Gerber of the Carolina Hurricanes.

Hirsch agreed to write a column for Sun Media and used it to air his greivances with the influx of NHL players to Europe.

"I think some of these players should have a talk with my pregnant wife and my kids that moved their lives to Europe, only to watch me sit in the stands game after game because I have been bumped by an NHL player," Hirsch wrote in the Sun.

Faced with the possibility of not playing again this season, Hirsch talked about the long-term legacy NHL players will leave behind when the lockout ends and their short-term stay is over.

"They will have their careers making great salaries but the damage they will have left in their wake will be irreparable," surmised Hirsch, who has represented Canada in international play. "They are scabs over here, replacement players, basically rented to put fans in the seats."

Hirsch also finds it ironic that NHL players are heading to Europe as they fight for job security in North America.

"Before NHL players come to Europe, I suggest they take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves why they are coming," Hirsch added in his Sun column. "Other than to stay in shape, they will be playing for little money and will be destroying others job security."
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Postby Madcombinepilot » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:22 am

Hirsch has a point, but I ask myself this--

Who is holding a gun to the Eurpoean owners heads to sign these NHL guys, or are the Euro owners the same as the NHL owners -- greedy to win thier championships and put fans in seats?
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Postby Fred » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:49 am

The point raised no one is holding a gun to the owners head, is similar to the NHL. Also in the case of European teams many are simply clinging to life, the owners are throwing the dice and hopefully change the financial landsacpe from bleak to enough to get by maybe next season too. This is what the NHLPA uses as leverage again and again, this time in Europe. But really we're not talkiing about the owners here we're discussing the NHLPA members taking away their comrades opportunity to play. We have exchanged all the best players from Europe to come over here to entertain you and me and we have sent back our 4th liners. Now when the going gets tough the NHLPA brother decide to screw their comrades.I don't think the owners never had a gun oput to their head counts, you could just as well say the players didn't have to go over there in the first place.

Another point of course it's only the top end players who make the big money here in the first place that are breaking the code the NHL bottom feeders like Mike Commodore is again shut out. I have to believe this is greed plain and simple. It's the "Me Generation" screw every one else as long as I'm OK, though how they square this with memeber ship in a union is beyond me
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Postby gmisinthegarage » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:40 pm

If NHL'er when to Europe and the European player were locked out yes they would be scabs. If the NHL started letting the European players play NHL games during a lock out they would be scabs. They are Bastardizing the word saying that.
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Postby Fred » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:50 pm

Every Nth American that plays in Europe takes away a European local opportunity. Similarly every European that plays in Nth America takes away a N.American local. The big difference is the Europeans limit the number of Nth Americans that are permitted to play over there. Most countries limit it to 4 I believe. Even in amateur hockey! In the NHL there is no limit to the European players permitted in the NHL or the AHL and maybe beyond .... I'm not sure
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Scabe

Postby DavidPratt_ » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:03 pm

Fred wrote:Every Nth American that plays in Europe takes away a European local opportunity. Similarly every European that plays in Nth America takes away a N.American local. The big difference is the Europeans limit the number of Nth Americans that are permitted to play over there. Most countries limit it to 4 I believe. Even in amateur hockey! In the NHL there is no limit to the European players permitted in the NHL or the AHL and maybe beyond .... I'm not sure


Corey Hirsch had his chance to make it to the Big Show. If you'll recall, Corey's 'me first' attitude did him in with the Canucks. After leaving the Canucks, Hirsch had his chance in both the Washington and Dallas organizations. Neither panned out. What Corey Hirsch forgets is that he is in the ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS and the owners of those European teams want to bring in fans and sell tickets. I've said it time and time again: this is show business and let the market dictate how much a player gets paid and who gets to play. Martin Gerber is more talented than Hirsch and he became available. End of story. Hirsch is not entitled to his job in Switzerland. He has to earn it. He alone dictates whether he plays or not.

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Postby Larionov » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:38 pm

Dave, I wholeheartedly agree with what you've written above. Here's my only question for you -- if this thing gets ugly to the point where the NHL brings in replacement players next fall, will you stand up for the replacements? It's the same issue -- a job is available, and a guy has a choice on whether or not to fill it. I also have no problem with NHLers going over to Europe, just as long as they don't holler "scab" next fall...
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Postby DavidPratt_ » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:40 pm

Larionov wrote:Dave, I wholeheartedly agree with what you've written above. Here's my only question for you -- if this thing gets ugly to the point where the NHL brings in replacement players next fall, will you stand up for the replacements? It's the same issue -- a job is available, and a guy has a choice on whether or not to fill it. I also have no problem with NHLers going over to Europe, just as long as they don't holler "scab" next fall...


Like I said - it's a show business. If the NHL resorts to replacements and the NHL players don't want to play, then the show must go on. Maybe Corey Hirsch can get a job if there is one available and he wins it. If he does, my thought is 'all power to him'. Will the quality be good enough for NHL fans like you, Larionov, to show up? Who knows? Maybe a starting lineup for the Canucks would be:

Kirk Muller as the starting centre between Gino Odjick and Chris Kontos on the #1 line with the starting defensive pair of Adrien Plavsic and Enrico Cicconne, with an available goaltending tandem of Corey Hirsch and Bill Ranford.

How would that look next year? Would fans pay big money to see that? Who knows? All I know is that the fans in Switzerland would rather see the starting goalie for the Caroline Hurricanes (Martin Gerber) instead of an NHL has-been (Corey HIrsch). and that's why the Swiss team's owners brought Gerber in.

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Postby Guest » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:57 pm

Pratt - you have a pretty callous attitude towards players like Corey Hirsch. When is the TEAM 1040 management going to kick your fat ass out of the broadcast booth because your ratings are so low? When are they going to bring in a broadcaster who the fans want to listen to? After all, this is show business isn't it??
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Postby Fred » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:55 pm

While I agree with the entertainment angle. I'm surprised the guys that are taking away the jobs are the top end players, they're playing for a pittance compared with what they are paid here. In fact the more that you think about it is it's the Nth American fan that is getting it. Thornton playing for likely 1/10th of what he gets paid here and he won't agree to a new contract. he make suckers of us all. The only people getting a good deal are the European Fan. Corey Hirsch I do recall was a one man band, but this may shock you he's not the only one in the league.He paid the price. So his place goes to a European goalie and there's quite a few in the league. There is no free market of Nth American players in Europe, so I guess they don't abide with your free enterprise entertainment guff. If there was a free flow of player based soley on skill there would be a lot of spots open and who knows Hirsch might still be playing over there. But there's not I think the Swiss Swedes etc restrict the number of nth American players (unlike the NHL) to I believe 4 slots. Hirsch might still be the number 2 goalie skill wise but the IIHF and the IIHP ensure there is a one way traffic of players. So Hirsch is caught in the middle. Gruber is not tied up with the same rules when he come from Switzerland over here.

Frankly I think it's pathetic that top Nth Americans take away playing position of those guys trying to make a lesser living, it's greed.

When or if they bring in replacement players the remainder should have ONE chance to re-join the NHL and then that's it your gone! for life. They've been playing the fans for suckers over here for to long !
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Scabs

Postby DavidPratt_ » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:15 pm

All I am saying is in both cases (Europe and North America) fans want THE BEST. Because this is an ENTERTAINMENT business. If the Swiss fans can get a Martin Gerber instead of a Corey Hirsch and are willing to buy more tickets to do so, then guess what - why not? If replacement players play in the NHL next year, that's fine. But guess what? If the majority of the NHLers didn't come back and cross a picket line and Canuck fans got stuck watching Gino Odjick and Kirk Mclean back (and over the hill) would they come? Who knows, but quite frankly I wouldn't because I want to see THE BEST. If the quality was somehow better, maybe I would come. Who knows? I wouldn't drop my dollars down watching Wendel Clark try to do a 'spinorama' on Dave Babych while trying to shoot a puck through Troy Gamble's five-hole, I can tell you that!

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Postby Cupless » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:06 am

The membership of the NHLPA damages the repuation of their union/trade organization (whatever you want to call it) and therefore their credibility by treating their trade brothers (and in many cases, their former union brothers) poorly by "slumming" in Europe because they don't want to be bored during the lockout. I can't see any other explanation for the phenomenon of NHL'ers going over to Europe to play - except recently in Brad Richards' situation signing in Russia who could possibly be said to be doing for the money.

It would be the same as if Jim Rome got into an argument with his syndicate and came and took David Pratt's job in Vancouver until his syndicate capitulated. Dave would be A) losing income in the short term and B) gaining job uncertainty in the long term because the position he'd "earned" had been thrown into a state of flux by a prima donna in the media temporarily invading said "earned" space.. I know for a fact that for all his bluster about it being an entertainment industry and that talent should determine who gets the job, Dave doesn't want to compete with Jim Rome for his job. Dave would be pissed at the disloyalty of the Team 1040, and he would be pissed at Rome for dumping Dave on the street just so Rome can have something to do while he negotiates business with his real business interest - the syndicate.

Do the players have the right to try to find jobs in Europe? Absolutely.

Are they being discourteous by doing so? Absolutely.

It has nothing to with business. If you follow the supply/demand guidelines, the players are not doing anything wrong.

However, morally their actions by playing in Europe and putting 200 guys out of work because they have nothing better to do during the lockout are wrong.

But then again, morals aren't important anymore in sports, I guess. Sportsmanship and professional courtesy are dinosaurs - but that's a different thread I guess.
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Postby jchockey » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:17 am

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Postby Jovorock » Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:32 am

I don't know where this all is going to end? Rob Ray comments sounds like the players are starting to fold.

I agree with Hirsch, the NHL'ers are scabs and if people start stealing there jobs in the NHL they shouldn't bitch. But you know they will pretty quick.
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Hirsch

Postby DavidPratt_ » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:09 pm

If you read my 'official' radio response to the Hirsch comments today, there were a number of callers who agreed with me on the TEAM 1040 this afternoon. It's a business kids, and sometimes it can be cruel.

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