The Rebuild...

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Reefer2
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Reefer2 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:23 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:01 pm
SKYO wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:09 am
Cornuck wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:09 am
SKYO wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:37 am
Sedins retire would be the breathe of fresh air this franchise needs.
Who do you replace them with?
Horvat.

Look at the ice time.. Horvat has already replaced them. Twins are having a decent final year as 37 year olds on an expiring long term contract. They stepped up nicely when everyone was hurt, but the lack of organizational talent still meant we couldn't win games.

But in the limited role they had when everyone was healthy, they were fine.

Why replace them with unknowns in the locker room when you can resign them to fair (third line, 38 year olds players) contracts. Low base salary with incentives.

Until the team is deep enough to handle losing 3 forwards to injury and not having to call up Pylons like Chaput and Gaunce in the lineup for any reason, keep them.
Agreed Mad, but I hope to see Green using different players on the 2nd unit PP and in OT.

Just give them (not sure who them are anymore) a chance. Maybe we do not have a "them"?

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Topper » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:35 pm

SKYO wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:09 am
Cornuck wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:09 am
SKYO wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:37 am
Sedins retire would be the breathe of fresh air this franchise needs.
Who do you replace them with?
Horvat.
A year late.

365 bucks short? That isn't a racist comment.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:55 pm

1) Team probably trades Hutton, Nilsson and one of Baertschi/Granlund/Goldy/before next season starts.

2) Tanev due to injuries won't get enough back, so they likely keep him.
Even though I've been trying to sell high on Tanev since 2015 to no avail - viewtopic.php?p=223878#p223878 :mrgreen:

3) Sedins will retire to make way for the bunch of young unknowns who could use some roster space.

4) Edler will stay thanks to family/friends/kids in Vancouver till UFA then he can plan his next move, or he even could take a hometown discount to be more of a depth dman guy to help the next generation of Canucks succeed.

5) Sutter/Eriksson/Gagner/MDZ likely stay put.

6) Hence we won't see any blockbuster moves anytime soon, besides a minor hockey deal of Hutton, Nilsson and a winger for whatever.

7) Probably re-sign Archie, a Green fave and July 1st they probably try to sign Kane to a bit of hometown discount, risk it/roll of the dice move.

8) The good news is we probably get to see Pettersson, Gaudette and Juolevi make the team and maybe even Demko as a backup to Marky.

9) the draft maybe interesting to see what happens, & the team needs some mactavish draft lotto luck ya'll..
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:29 pm

3/ Sedins are for sure coming back
4/ Edler will still be a top 3 D man with or without Tanev here. Depth d man lol !!!!!!


Awesome, keep the same slugs that have stunk for the better part of five years. No need to change it up. Get the band back together.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by SKYO » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:07 pm

If Sedins retire, mark my words Edler will decide to move on, saying: Okay family, time for a change, and he'll waive to one or two teams of his families choosing.

Plus Edler's improved play this year will help return a decent haul of picks and prospects, I'd like to keep the rock on defense Edler, but like everyone wants - if you want a nice haul of draft picks, trading a stable top 4 dman will get you that, won't be as killer as the Ryan McDonagh deal, but it's the right move to make if you want a good rebuild.
A long time ago, a baseball player remarked: "If I owned a ballclub, I'd hire a $5,000 coach and a $15,000 scout."

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Cherry Picker » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:12 am

The next 1 to 2 years will see the replacement of place holders with hopefully a new winning core. Here are the official CP odds of each player playing for the Canucks in October 2018 and in October 2019 plus comment. Survey results are 67% accurate 13 times out of 20.

Name, Oct 2018%, Oct 2019%, Comment

Bo Horvat 95% 95% - Future Captain - Part of next core.
Brock Boeser 95% 95% - Future Alternate Captain - Part of next core.
Elias Petterson 85% 95% - Part of next core.
Adam Gaudette 85% 95% - Part of next core.
Brandon Sutter 95% 85% - Veteran checking line leadership.
Chris Tanev 95% 85% - Veteran leader on D, trade talk is all BS.
First Pick 2018 Draft 60% 85% - Should be part of next core.
Eric Gudbranson 80% 80% - Injuries increase odds he’ll miss games.
Alex Edler 95% 75% - NTC and young Swedes joining team means he’ll likely be around.
Jake Virtanen 95% 75% - Needs to add consistency to join next core.
Thatcher Demko 50% 75% - Grooming into future starter.
Olli Juolevi 50% 75% - Should challenge for a job next season.
Jonathan Dahlen 35% 75% - Likely to start in Utica and work into top six core player.
Troy Stecher 80% 70% - Points needed offensively to keep his role.
Jakub Markstrom 85% 65% - Starter role is his to lose, which might happen soon.
Sven Baertschi 75% 65% - LW is a team weakness. Is he an important support player or important trade bait?
Brendan Leipsic 95% 60% - Defense and turnovers dictate if he stays long term.
Brendan Gaunce 75% 60% - Good checker needs some offence to stick around.
Loui Eriksson 70% 60% - Hard contract to move, decent defensively.
Darren Archibald 70% 60% - Team needs more grit with youth coming in, so he is most likely back.
Cole Lind 35% 60% - Perhaps a call-up from Utica later next season.
Nikita Tryamkin 10% 50% - Please come back.
Ben Hutton 50% 45% - Needs to improve in all areas.
Sam Gagner 55% 40% - Trade bait once kids arrive.
Derrick Pouliot 45% 45% - Play in own end must improve.
Markus Granlund 45% 40% - Not much scoring or grit means he’s replaceable.
Nicholas Goldobin 40% 40% - Not enough offence to overcome pathetic defense and lack of grit.
Tyler Motte 35% 35% - Young checker will spend time in Utica to see if he improves.
Michael Del Zotto 80% 30% - Definition of place holder.
Johan Gadjovich 30% 30% - Biggest boom or bust needs to improve skating.
Evander Kane 30% 30% - Fills Benning’s need.
Ryan Reeves 30% 30% - Fills real need.
Alex Biega 30% 30% - Utica up and down injury replacement.
Daniel Sedin 50% 25% - HHOF career coming to a close.
Henrik Sedin 50% 25% - HHOF career coming to a close.
Anders Nilsson 50% 20% - Thatcher is after his job.
Nick Dowd 20% 10% - Only injuries could keep him on the big club.
Reid Boucher 20% 10% - Only injuries could keep him on the big club.
All others in system 5% 10% - Need time to develop.
Jussi Jokinen 1% 0% - And I’m not joke in.
We are all Jim Benning.

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Diehard1 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:31 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:29 pm
3/ Sedins are for sure coming back
4/ Edler will still be a top 3 D man with or without Tanev here. Depth d man lol !!!!!!


Awesome, keep the same slugs that have stunk for the better part of five years. No need to change it up. Get the band back together.
They’ve shown amazing loyalty to a crappy core. So much ‘leadership’ and ‘culture’ it’s impossible to imagine the team has been worse than even Arizona and Colorado the past 3 seasons. Even worse when you realize we’ve spent to the cap every season and those other two haven’t been close. It’s hard to be this bad!

Trade vets, sign short term UFAs (1 year deals, not 3 or even 2), keep playing the kids. The future is now.

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Uncle dans leg » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:06 am

Whats the latest on the Sedins retirement? Last nights game was my first in a while and what i saw out of those 2 made the final twitches of Iginlas career look dazzling.

They cant seriously be consideing coming back when their wheels/skills/strength have erroded this bad...can they? Can they????
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by rikster » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:12 am

Diehard1 wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:31 am
Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:29 pm
3/ Sedins are for sure coming back
4/ Edler will still be a top 3 D man with or without Tanev here. Depth d man lol !!!!!!


Awesome, keep the same slugs that have stunk for the better part of five years. No need to change it up. Get the band back together.
They’ve shown amazing loyalty to a crappy core. So much ‘leadership’ and ‘culture’ it’s impossible to imagine the team has been worse than even Arizona and Colorado the past 3 seasons. Even worse when you realize we’ve spent to the cap every season and those other two haven’t been close. It’s hard to be this bad!

Trade vets, sign short term UFAs (1 year deals, not 3 or even 2), keep playing the kids. The future is now.
Hey DieHard, with all due respect you could do that but so what?

The key is the core, everything around it is secondary until they find at least a half dozen elite players to form the core...

What team you ice while waiting to find your core players is debatable but understanding that those core players are almost always found in the first two rounds of the draft and accepting that they need to nail the next two drafts they are at least 2 to 3 years away from being ready to compete again....

If they nail the next two drafts and the 3 or 4 blue chip prospects already in the system turn into core players to join Horvat and Boeser, then it will have taken 6 to 7 years to rebuild the team which means that Shane Malloy was spot on when he predicted a 7 to 10 year period....

The secondary players will look alot different in 3 years so I'm not getting worked up in the meantime over whose playing on the third and fourth lines or who the top 4 on the blue line are because they likely won't be here when the team is ready to compete...

It is why the term of the Gudbranson contract made sense to me....

Which is why I can't understand all of the angst over not trading players for late round picks was about...Core players aren't found in the later rounds...

Linden/Benning/Green believe that it's better the kids are in an environment with veteran character players beside them rather than filling the roster with all kids, I agree with them...

Once they have their core group, filling spots around them isn't nearly as difficult....Look at the Black Hawks or the Penguins...

Both have or had an elite group of core players and they have recycled players around them to fill out their rosters and comply with the salary cap...

The Black Hawks core group has gotten smaller and it is on the backside of their careers and the team is now fighting for a playoff spot...

It will be interesting to see how they handle the next few years and if they go down the road the Canucks did post 2011...Like the Canucks those core players have expensive, long term no movement contracts and they are all getting older....

Will they learn from the likes of the Canucks and look to unload say a Kane or Toews if it means that they can get a good return or do they keep moving secondary players in and out of the lineup trying to find majic in a bottle like the Canucks have done?

Take care...

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:34 am

Yeah I forget who it was they had on 1040 some draft Guru a couple weeks back, he basically said that where the Canucks were with the current contracts on aging players, awful prospect pool and lack of young players on the team he thought in his mind at the time it was a 7 year rebuild from when Benning took over
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Ronning's Ghost » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:42 am

rikster wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:12 am
they are at least 2 to 3 years away from being ready to compete again....
Opinions on that vary.

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by rikster » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:43 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:34 am
Yeah I forget who it was they had on 1040 some draft Guru a couple weeks back, he basically said that where the Canucks were with the current contracts on aging players, awful prospect pool and lack of young players on the team he thought in his mind at the time it was a 7 year rebuild from when Benning took over
I mentioned in another post that in the 10 years prior to Bennings arrival the team has drafted 2 elite players....Horvat and Schneider and because they traded Schneider to draft Horvat they have 1 elite player on their roster who was drafted in those 10 years...

When you look at it that way it's easy to understand where the 7 to 10 year predictions came from...

Take care...

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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:06 pm

I think there is a distinction to be made between a completed rebuild (a contender in the playoffs) and the prospect pool rebuild.

I believe, well I do believe that even winning teams should never neglect keeping their prospect pool strong. I believe that what Yzerman is doing in Tampa is how GMs of winning teams should manage the now and future. He has a great prospect pool which allows him to make the odd rental trade at the deadline without badly damaging the future.

You look at what Doug Wilson has done in San Jose, and I'm just not a fan of that style of GM'ing. He's had OK success I guess but they have the worst prospect pool in the league and the Kane trade made it that much worse, especially if he doesn't resign. Wilson has $20 million in cap space to work with so he can totally overpay Kane to save face (which I think he will, he knows Benning can't compete in a Kane overpayment) but the Sharks have problems in the near future with that crap prospect pool.

Anyhow I believe the future "core" rebuild will be in place with the 2018 draft. But considering the development of these kids in the pool the complete rebuild (cup contenders) is right on track if you consider the 7 year suggested length starting with the 2013/2014 seasons. I also think we will be in tough to make the playoffs in 2019 as well but I look at the 2019 draft as more of a bonus to the rebuild. The core rebuild should be completed with the 2018 draft. However Benning needs to continually be adding lots of prospects to the pool the way StevieY has so when it comes time for him to be a TDL buyer he can do so without damaging the prospect pool
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 pm

Honestly though, they still need some more high end kids in the system even though it’s better than it has been for years. Ideally they get a top 4 pick and don’t deviate away from Dahlin or one of the top 3 forwards. Dahlin would be ideal but ANY of the other three would fill a need of elite talent up front. I’ve had a bit of a change of heart about moving Tanev or Edler. The team is a garbage fire with them on it. Tear the bandaid off and for fuck sakes let the twins walk. How much worse can it get by letting the twins walk and trading Tanev and Edler ? Recoup picks, clear a massive amount of cap and sign an Ian Cole type or two in July and maybe a veteran forward with an edge. I actually had a thought about trading for Shea Weber but The didn’t realize he had eight years left on that contract. I could have stomached maybe five or six more years but not eight. Elmer needs to reshape that defence big time. Ideally he drafts Dahlin and then adds another first in a Tanev trade. I’d move Baertschi and Granlund for whatever picks I could get.
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Re: The Rebuild...

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:56 pm

I agree about Tanev and Edler. I believe Dahlin makes that very real. I also see no place on the team for Granlund and Hutton. They are not Travis Green players. Baertschi is and may get immunity.

Trading Edler at next years TDL makes total sense, a pending UFA, getting picks to excite the home crowd at the 2019 draft.
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