Management

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Did we miss out, losing Burke?

Yes - worse mistake this era
23
92%
No - He should have been gone after he traded McCabe for the Sedins...
2
8%
 
Total votes : 25

Management

Postby Madcombinepilot » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:33 am

I think the biggest loss of the season came last summer when McCaw had Brian Burke driven to the airport. Bottom line. Ducks (Under BB) In, Canucks out.....
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Postby yammi » Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:17 pm

Absolutely yes.

Although there weren't many of us, we cancelled our tickets the day Burke was fired.

Some of the local media like Tony Gallagher and that fat piece of crap David Pratt hated him, but Brian Burke did a wonderful job of restoring the hockey culture in Vancouver and putting an exciting team on the ice.
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Postby Bartman » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Totally agree. Burke may have had his faults but he was and is one of the best GM's in the business. It was a pathetic and short sighted move to send him packing.

I like Nonis but don't know if he's got the brass ones to do this job. So far he has failed to put his stamp on the team and I think that has to do with pressure. He figured he'd get lambasted by the fans and press if he made changes and we flopped. He won't get the same flack now because everyone will forgive him because they too had high expectations for this core.
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Postby Kid A » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:58 pm

Honestly, if Nonis had made changes and the season turned out like it did, his head would be on the chopping block. I don't think we can really judge him until we see what he does this summer, now that he has more freedom to put his own stamp on the team. That being said, I am still hoping that putting him in charge was the right thing to do.
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Postby DavidPratt_ » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:04 pm

yammi wrote:Absolutely yes.

Although there weren't many of us, we cancelled our tickets the day Burke was fired.

Some of the local media like Tony Gallagher and that fat piece of crap David Pratt hated him, but Brian Burke did a wonderful job of restoring the hockey culture in Vancouver and putting an exciting team on the ice.


First of all, I'm quite curious how fat YOUR ass is. Second, let's get one thing very, very clear. Brian Burke as GM of the Vancouver Canucks won ONE playoff round in his history as GM. ONE ROUND. Furthermore, the 'Brian Burke' legacy (ie. the team that just got knocked out of the playoff race) is largely a 'Brian Burke Team'. That would explain in many ways why we won't be watching Vancouver in the playoffs THIS SPRING.

Brian was very good at giving himself a pat on the back for all the 'culture restoration' and exciting teams the Canucks fielded, but let's face facts.

1. Where the team consistently struggled, Brian was unable to make changes. Despite average NHL goaltending, Burke refused to trade Cloutier.

2. Brian was overly loyal to the 'core' - the same core that just let down Canucks fans a few days ago. When there were opportunities to shake up the team for being inconsistent, Burke made cosmetic changes, but not the big ones that made the team into a consistent PLAYOFF threat.

3. When Brian took over the team he had Markus Naslund, Todd Bertuzzi and assets such as Bure, Mogilny and even Messier on the team. In other words, he wasn't starting from ground zero like he inherited an expansion team (you know, like the Minnesota Wild team that knocked out Vancouver in the 2002/2003 playoffs)

4. Thanks to Dave Cobb and trades that Mike Keenan made (Linden for Bertuzzi and Mcabe) it wasn't that hard for Burke to restore the team to where it was (pre-1994-95).

5. Brian Burke's drafting record with the Canucks was abysmal. Outside of the move to get the Sedins, the team has NOT flourished with prospects who are drafted and developed within the Canuck organization. Out of 30 NHL teams, the Canucks rank 26th in terms of prospects by Hockey's Future Magazine: http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=8549

Face facts, Brian did a DECENT job as GM here, but based on the team's playoff record and the 'Brian Burke team' that just got knocked out of the playoffs, you can forget about the monument of Burkie being built outside of GM place. Those monuments are only built for Stanley Cup WINNERS.

Oh, and if Jennifer Mather wants to post a reply on here, she can go right ahead.

dp
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Re: Management

Postby DavidPratt_ » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:11 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:I think the biggest loss of the season came last summer when McCaw had Brian Burke driven to the airport. Bottom line. Ducks (Under BB) In, Canucks out.....


That's right. If Brian Burke stuck around, he would have probably stuck with the core. Wait, isn't that what Nonis did? I just get a kick out of the 'legend of Brian Burke' that Brian will be creating for himself in Anaheim. Yes, he made some good moves like signing Niedemayer and Selanne, but he has inherited some pretty decent players (Giguere for one) and more importantly a very very deep prospect pool. Unlike the Vancouver team he left behind (which ranks 26th out of 30 teams by Hockey's Future Magazine after years of drafting under Brian's watch), he INHERITED a team ranked #1 by Hockey's Future. Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry were Brian Murray draft picks. Ladislav Smid, Dustin Penner, Brendan Mikkelson and Shane O'Brien are all highly rated prospects drafted PRE-BRIAN. Of course within a few years when Anaheim is posting decent regular-season records (it remains to be seen how well they will do in the playoffs based on Brian's track record) all those assets he acquired will soon be forgotten. It will all be Brian's credit. Trust me on this one.

dp
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Re: Management

Postby BigBert » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:10 pm

DavidPratt_ wrote:
Madcombinepilot wrote:I think the biggest loss of the season came last summer when McCaw had Brian Burke driven to the airport. Bottom line. Ducks (Under BB) In, Canucks out.....


That's right. If Brian Burke stuck around, he would have probably stuck with the core. Wait, isn't that what Nonis did? I just get a kick out of the 'legend of Brian Burke' that Brian will be creating for himself in Anaheim. Yes, he made some good moves like signing Niedemayer and Selanne, but he has inherited some pretty decent players (Giguere for one) and more importantly a very very deep prospect pool. Unlike the Vancouver team he left behind (which ranks 26th out of 30 teams by Hockey's Future Magazine after years of drafting under Brian's watch), he INHERITED a team ranked #1 by Hockey's Future. Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry were Brian Murray draft picks. Ladislav Smid, Dustin Penner, Brendan Mikkelson and Shane O'Brien are all highly rated prospects drafted PRE-BRIAN. Of course within a few years when Anaheim is posting decent regular-season records (it remains to be seen how well they will do in the playoffs based on Brian's track record) all those assets he acquired will soon be forgotten. It will all be Brian's credit. Trust me on this one.

dp


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Postby Bartman » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:07 pm

DP, if Burke crapped out 18k gold would you slam him because it wan't 24k?
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Postby The Specialist » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:33 pm

Cmon, i hate agreeing with Pratt but he's right, one playoff win in six seasons and your proud of that, i guess 35 years without a cup has got all you Burke lovers brainwashed to the max. All you Burke lovers better enjoy your Ducks playoff run because he had nothing to do with building that team and in two years the Burkey Ducks will be in disaray. :roll:
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Postby DavidPratt_ » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:51 pm

The Specialist wrote:Cmon, i hate agreeing with Pratt but he's right, one playoff win in six seasons and your proud of that, i guess 35 years without a cup has got all you Burke lovers brainwashed to the max. All you Burke lovers better enjoy your Ducks playoff run because he had nothing to do with building that team and in two years the Burkey Ducks will be in disaray. :roll:


I am not suggesting that Burke was awful, just that as far as the Canucks are concerned, HIS team produced ONE PLAYOFF ROUND VICTORY. ONE. Sorry if I came from the wrong gene pool according to a few of the replies above, but responses like that reflect what is wrong with the fans in Vancouver. The fans in Vancouver are willing to accept mediocrity. If Naslund/Bertuzzi/Morrison lit it up a bit more during this past regular season and the Canucks made the playoffs only to lose in the first round due to mediocre goaltending from Alex Auld and some good but not outstanding play, I will bet you that fans in this town would have said 'wait 'till next year'. There wouldn't be any pressure to shake the core of this team.

Hate saying this, but missing the playoffs forces Nonis to make some REAL moves. No more lame moves such as picking up Maxime Ouellet or trading a TON of draft picks for Brown, Carney, Weinrich and Noronen (which didn't seem so bad at the time I admit). Real moves. Trading away players who take stupid penalties or who miss defensive assignments when defending a lead (sound familiar?) is a start.

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Postby DavidPratt_ » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:52 pm

Bartman wrote:DP, if Burke crapped out 18k gold would you slam him because it wan't 24k?


That's exactly what happened. We got some gold (ie. decent regular season results) but we never went far in the playoffs and Burke didn't do what it took to crap out 24K.

dp
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Postby kingofrockstars » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:35 am

I wish BB was still here. That way he could have been fired along with DN, Crow and everyone else. Bring in some new people. Change this team from a talented regular season team to one that works hard and wins in the playoffs.
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Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:21 am

Let's give Nonis a chance, DP is right, this was Burkey's team that let this season go in the Tank. Burke's players, Burke's coach, Burke's system. Next year it will be Nonis' team, and he better produce. Somehow we've been considering ourselves contenders for several seasons with no real reason.
Yes, Naslund had been one of the leauges best until this season.
Yes, we had the top line in hockey years ago.
Yes, we had a franchise D-man in Jovo, and an underrated star in Ohlund.
But all those Yes' don't a contender make. Look at Ottawa pre-this season. Similar situation to ours (granted they actually made the playoffs last year). We still have a massively talented team, more talented than some in the playoffs. It's possible that one or two relatively minor changes, say firing the coach (Martin in the Sens case), and moving one piece of the core (Hossa/Bertuzzi?) and all of a sudden they are arguably the best team in hockey.
This season is a write-off, everyone on the team (with the exception of the Sedin-Carter line, and Bryan Allen), had seasons ranging from sub-par to terrible. Throw in a higher level of injuries to our main players, and you get to where we are now, only several points removed from a playoff spot. The future is still bright. Hopefully Nonis has the balls to do what Burke didn't last season, it's too bad we had to lose this season as proof of what needs to be done.
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Postby DavidPratt_ » Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:22 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Let's give Nonis a chance, DP is right, this was Burkey's team that let this season go in the Tank. Burke's players, Burke's coach, Burke's system. Next year it will be Nonis' team, and he better produce. Somehow we've been considering ourselves contenders for several seasons with no real reason.
Yes, Naslund had been one of the leauges best until this season.
Yes, we had the top line in hockey years ago.
Yes, we had a franchise D-man in Jovo, and an underrated star in Ohlund.
But all those Yes' don't a contender make. Look at Ottawa pre-this season. Similar situation to ours (granted they actually made the playoffs last year). We still have a massively talented team, more talented than some in the playoffs. It's possible that one or two relatively minor changes, say firing the coach (Martin in the Sens case), and moving one piece of the core (Hossa/Bertuzzi?) and all of a sudden they are arguably the best team in hockey.
This season is a write-off, everyone on the team (with the exception of the Sedin-Carter line, and Bryan Allen), had seasons ranging from sub-par to terrible. Throw in a higher level of injuries to our main players, and you get to where we are now, only several points removed from a playoff spot. The future is still bright. Hopefully Nonis has the balls to do what Burke didn't last season, it's too bad we had to lose this season as proof of what needs to be done.


Wholeheartedly agree with all of this. The absolute worst mistake is to panic and make too many changes. Yes, I've been hard on the Canucks' playoff record and every Canuck fan should be as well, but let's get serious here. This team has decent talent on paper, and the team should evaluate its entire organization and make some changes. Questions should include:

1. What prevented the team from holding leads or winning games down the stretch when it counted? Was it coaching? Was it the character of the team? Did they lack veteran role players? Was it a lack of defensive-minded players who could play a shut-down game?
2. What kind of depth does this organization have? If a similar situation happened next year - ie. a goalie, defenseman or forward goes down - does the organization have depth and young talent to step in when necessary instead of dumping draft picks for veterans who didn't deliver (Carney, Weinrich)? Which leads to....
3. Drafting/development record. How well has the team drafted in the past 5 years? How have players developed in the minor-pro system?

All is not lost, and the Canucks can easily make the playoffs next year if they re-formulate the team, look at the chemistry and makeup of the organization, and make changes similar to what you saw in Ottawa. Ottawa dropped Jacques Martin and Hossa and those changes (not gutting the team but semi-major changes) made a difference. The difference between John Muckler and Brian Burke/Nonis, is that Muckler dumped Lalime because he couldn't deliver in the playoffs and brought in Hasek and called up Emery as backup. Burke/Nonis did not do the same with Cloutier. Martin's voice was lost in the Ottawa dressing room, so they replaced him with Brian Murray. Perhaps Crawford is in the same situation.

dp
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Postby magnum44 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:08 pm

It will be an interesting off season to be sure. Personally I think you have to start by getting rid of Crow.
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