Strangelove wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:04 pm
Diehard1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:47 pm
Are most media members and Canuck fans really this thick? Does anybody think this is just about Vanek and not getting a good return for him?
This is about a trade for a bad dman in Guddy, giving up 2 picks and a recent 1st rounder for a guy who is a 5/6 dman. This is about getting nothing for Hamhuis and Vrbata. This is about having to include a pick to trade Kassian, who has turned into a solid player. This is about trading Bieksa for a 2nd then immediately trading that pick along with Bonino for a worse player in Sutter. This is about trading a 2nd for Linden freaking Vey. This is about trading Kesler for almost nothing - the 1st (McCann), dman (Sbisa) and centre (Bonino) are all gone with Sutter and Guddy part of the return. This is about trading a 5th for Philip freaking Larsen. This is about trading a pick for Emerson Etem. This is about trading Forsling for Clendening. This is about the Eriksson contract. This is about the Gudbranson contract. This is about the Gagner contract. This is about the Hutton contract. This is about the Sutter contract. And finally yes, this is about the Vanek deal on top of all of these others. 11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in for a rebuilding team while trading prime assets like Kesler, Bieksa, Bonino, is not good.
Every single one of these trades and signings we've got the shit end of the stick. It's hard to make that many bad trades and signings in the 4 years Benning has been here.
I give him credit for a few deals - Leipsic is a solid pickup, Pouliot I'm fine with, loved the Burrows deal. Granlund is meh given how terrible he's been this year with a ton of ice time, Baertschi is too given I'd rather have the player the Flames drafted with our 2nd than Baertschi, Dorsett for a 3rd is ok too but didn't work out for other reasons. The drafting of Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind, Gadjovich, Demko, etc look very good and we already knew that was his strength.
The plan has been odd to say the least - Benning deserves any and all criticism he's received to date. I'm hopeful that this is going to change soon, but given what we've seen in the last 4 years I'm not all that convinced.
You are UN. FUCKING. REAL.
I keep responding to your complaints... and you keep completely ignoring those responses.
Here's a link... and please check out the link within the link:
http://www.canuckscorner.com/forums/vie ... 48#p299448
How many times do I have to point out it wasn't a 2nd + Bonino for Sutter
... it was a 9-spot-pick-upgrade (55th to 64th) + Bonino for Sutter.
(and they still got the player they wanted in Lockwood)
(and most people here think Sutts is better for this team than Bones, yes I know about the 2 Cups)
You keep saying "11 draft picks out, 9 draft picks in"... but that's deceptive.
You're not counting the 2nd from Columbus (Torts) and you're including the 2018 draft (we don't know yet).
The 2nd from Columbus was not earned by GMJB, but it took some pressure off in the Acquire Picks Dept.
The rest of your concerns are addressed in the links provided...
Relax man, I have a full time job, young family and not all the time in the world to be on message boards. I apologize if I haven’t responded quickly enough or thoroughly enough for you, hard to keep up sometimes given numerous posts that don’t add much and mean good discussion gets lost quickly.
You are right, it wasn’t a 2nd straight up in the Sutter deal, never said it was. You also forget to mention that the amazing Clendening was in the deal, after playing a whopping 17 games for the Nucks, traded for a Forsling who had a great WJC. Forsling has also played 79 NHL games to date and is only 21 years old so has a long career ahead of him. Not a great move.
I’m not going to give Benning credit for a pick he had nothing to do with - Torts was a Gillis/Aquilini here and the pick was compensation for him, how does a Benning deserve any credit at all for that? To say it took some pressure off is disingenuous and makes little sense given they’ve shown no disposition to try and gain picks to date.
I like Virtanen’s game right now, but when Ehlers, Nylander, Ritchie, Perlini and Fiala all go right after you (Haydn Fleury was right after and a terrible pickeven at the time) you are behind the 8 ball. Juolevi went before Tkachuk, Keller and Sergachev, who all look like future stars. Still time here but there will have to be some major improvement
As for Hamhuis and Vrbata, it’s been said by those who should be in the know that a 3rd was on the table for Hamhuis. Link:
http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nh ... uddy-thing
Vrbata was a Benning signing so if you are saying Benning’s hands were tied, Benning tied them himself. Can’t have it both ways.
Benning and Linden keep saying they want to get younger, more competitive, don’t want a losing culture, and love draft picks. Let’s go with indisputable facts:
- Linden Vey for a 2nd is getting older
- Dorsett for a 3rd is older
- Garrison, Costello and 7th for 2nd - getting younger. Whoops, traded it for Vey so check that. Will give it to you.
- Mallet and 3rd for Pedan, older
- Forsling for Clendening, older
- Baertschi for 2nd, older - and Andersson is worth Baertschi easily, have you seen him play? I assume not. For sure an NHL player
- Lack for picks, younger
- McNally for 7th, younger
- Bieksa for 2nd, younger then traded in the Sutter deal
- Kassian plus 5th for Prust, older
- Bonino, Clendening, 2nd for Sutter, 3rd - saw off given Clendening is awful, and Sutter and Bonino are the same age
- Granlund for Shink, older, even if Granlund is a better player
- Larsen for 5th, older
- Guddy, 5th for McCann, 2nd, 4th - older
- Burr for a Dahlen, younger (great trade)
- Hansen for Goldy, 4th - younger
- Pouliot for Pedan, 4th, saw off, same age
- Dowd for Subban, older
- Motte, Jokinen for Vanek - will give you younger here even if Vanek and Jokinen are both old
- Leipsic for Holm, younger
9 trades getting older, 8 younger and 2 saw offs. These are facts based on age. Odd way for a rebuilding team to rebuild, getting older even if some are only slightly.
11 out (2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th)
9 in (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th)
That is....not good for a rebuilding team, especially given two of those picks came in the Kesler deal (existing asset that had value), one in the Bieksa deal (same), Garrison, etc. He had assets to pick up assets and didn’t do well. Shows I mention that Mike Gillis was the one who traded for the pick that turned into Gaudette? I know we all want to give Benning all the credit there.
- worst 3 year stretch in team history
- 2nd worst team in the league, points wise, over the last 3 years
- progressively getting worse each subsequent season in number of points
I like Benning, seems like a nice guy and I’m rooting for him. He’s not giving me much to go on here!
Nevermind the fact that the PR around this team has been handled about as poorly as you could possibly imagine, I’m amazed at how badly they’ve lost the plot. It’s like they don’t think at all when they speak then always have to go back and clarify points later. I’ve never seen it with another team on a consistent basis.
Believe me I’m trying to see your point of view and I just don’t get it. I really want to enjoy the kids who are coming up, love Pettersson’s game, love what Dahlen and Gaudette are doing, Demko looks like a stud. Boeser is amazing, Bo is our best player in my opinion, Virtanen and Juolevi I’m still hoping for big things from. I know I’m not mentioning everyone but you get the point. There will be more from this year’s draft as well. There could be a number of others on the way too if the team’s situation had been handled differently.
I’m not even going to touch on the FA contracts which have arguably been the worst part of this management team, because I’ve already made my feelings well known on this.
Can we name a team in the cap era that has rebuilt on the fly? Tampa, LA, Hawks, Pens, Toronto, Boston, Washington, etc all have multiple top picks in their lineups - though Boston is the one team that liked to trade them. All of these teams built their core through the draft and supplemented with trades and other picks. Anaheim maybe, they got lucky getting Perry and Getzlaf in the draft while they already had a very strong team. It’s extremely hard to do and takes a lot of luck.
I really hope I’m totally off base on this and Benning will take this team to new heights, I just don’t see the path to a top team after 40 years of watching hockey.
Now if I missed anything too bad, that’s all the time I have.