The Great Jim Benning Debate! (And personal insult thread)

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Strangelove
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove »

Blob Mckenzie [color=#FF0000]Mon May 15, 2017 5:09 pm[/color] wrote:These teams have far deeper and better pools of young players and prospects than Vancouver.
Strangelove [color=#FF0000]Mon May 15, 2017 5:25 pm[/color] wrote: Wrong.
Blob Mckenzie [color=#FF0000]Mon May 15, 2017 6:03 pm[/color] wrote: Next you will tell me Vancouver has the best group of young players in the league.
Strangelove wrote: *no response*
Blob Mckenzie [color=#FF0000]Tue May 16, 2017 8:19 am[/color] wrote:Lol said the klown who thinks Vancouver has more young talent than Toronto, Carolina and Phoenix .
Lol who's the klown?? :lol:
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Ummm you :lol:
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove »

Image
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Lol
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Strangelove wrote: Top-66 picks made last 4 drafts:

Arizona: 12
Vancouver: 10
Toronto: 10
Carolina 9
I guess if I'm allowed to pick an arbitrary number (I thought top-100 was fine), then you can too. I do note 66 is the magic number that allows you to include Tryamkin and Brisebois.

EDIT: 42nd overall Dahlen, 27th o/a Goldobin should be added, total = 16 = 1st in Top-66 picks!
So does that mean McCann, Shinkaruk, and Tryamkin come out? Two steps forward, three steps back...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Strangelove »

Island Nucklehead wrote: I guess if I'm allowed to pick an arbitrary number (I thought top-100 was fine), then you can too.
Yeah that's what I figured. :mex:

66 is my lucky number...
Island Nucklehead wrote:
EDIT: 42nd overall Dahlen, 27th o/a Goldobin should be added, total = 16 = 1st in Top-66 picks!
So does that mean McCann, Shinkaruk, and Tryamkin come out? Two steps forward, three steps back...
You're brighter than you look. :D

But we still own Tryamkin's NHL rights... so no you can't count him.

Okay then we're back to 14 Top-66 picks from 2013-17, three more than the average and

... 2nd most Top-66 picks in the NHL from 2013-17!

So ummm what were you boys getting your diapers in a bunch about? 8-)

BTW McCann/Shink were shipped out for other better young players.

Dahlen/Goldie were brought in for old vets.

Seems like a pretty solid rebuild thus far...
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by ESQ »

Strangelove wrote:
Top-100 picks made last 4 drafts:

Vancouver: 11 - includes McCann, Tryamkin, Shinkaruk...
Carolina: 16
Toronto: 16
Arizona: 17
Top-66 picks made last 4 drafts:

Arizona: 12
Vancouver: 10
Toronto: 10
Carolina 9

(average number of Top-66 picks per team in last 4 drafts = 8.8)

(half of the teams you "randomly" chose :roll: had less than 8.8... your Rangers had just 4 in the Top-66)

The average number of Top-66 picks per year per team is 2.2.

Your Vancouver Canucks currently hold 4 Top-66 picks so far (incl Cbs pick) in the 2017 draft.

As of now they stand to end up 2nd in total Top-66 picks from 2013-17 (14 Top-66 picks).

(average will be 11)

Not too shabby.
Wow.

This is some fine (and laborious, no doubt) number-crunching here, my hat is off to you both!
Last edited by ESQ on Tue May 16, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by ESQ »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Look at how teams like Phoenix and Toronto are doing it by acquiring EXTRA picks.

Those teams have far better young players/prospects than Vancouver. THAT should be the goal.
Hey, if Benning was able to re-stock the cupboards in 3 years of re-building to the same level as teams like Toronto (out of playoffs for a decade except for one hiccup), Arizona (no playoffs for 5 years) and Carolina (playoffs once in a decade), even you would have to agree he's a genius!

But as I was attempting to point out, the Canucks were in a win-now mode up until the year before Benning took over. Really, I would argue they were in win-now mode for a solid decade, from WCE to 2013. Arizona's best player is Ekman-Larson, drafted in 1st round in 2009. Carolina's best player is Jeff Skinner, drafted in 1st round 2010 - compare that to the Canucks, who only had Schroeder, Rodin and Connauton picked in the first 3 rounds of those 2 years.

And by the way, Arizona had 2 more picks than the Canucks from 2013-2016. The Laffs have had 4 more.

Canucks have picked 6th, 23rd and 5th over the last 3 drafts, the Laffs have had 8th, 4th and 1st. That right there explains the difference in quality of prospects/youth between the Laffs and the Canucks. With those 3 high picks, the Laffs got a first line. With our 3 picks, we got Virtanen, Boeser and Olli - only one of whom has had an opportunity to make an impact on the team.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Chef Boi RD »

ESQ wrote:
Compare that to the Canucks, who only had Schroeder, Rodin and Connauton picked in the first 3 rounds of those
2 years
Holy Hell, how awful is that? Not sure what's a worse statement, the draft where we didn't get a pick until the 4th round( the infamous Ballard trade Draft) only having 4 picks in that draft or that juicy bit of info? At least we got Derek Roy for a month for our 2nd round pick and Connauton(3rd rounder)
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Gillis first 3 drafts with the Canucks

2008
1st round - Hodgson
2nd round - Sauve
5th round - Rai
6th round - Froshaug
7th round - Clark

2009
1st round - Schroeder
2nd round - Rodin
3rd round - Connauton
4th round - Price
5th round - Andersson
6th round - Canata
7th round - Anthony

2010
1st round - nobody
2nd round - nobody
3rd round - nobody
4th round - McNally
5th round - Polasek
6th round - Friesen
7th round - Hannah

Bennings first 3 drafts with the Canucks

2014
1st round - Virtanen
1st round - McCann
2nd round - Demko
3rd round - Tryamkin
5th round - Forsling
6th round - Petit
7th round - Stewart

2015
1st round - Boeser
3rd round - Brisebios
4th round - Zhukenov
5th round - Neil
5th round - Gaudette
6th round - Jasek
7th round - Olson

2016
1st round - Juolevi
3rd round - Lockwood
5th round - Candella
6th round - Stukel
7th round - Abols
7th round - McKenzie
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Ronning's Ghost »

You keep losing the plot, RD. The thread is not 'The Great Mike Gillis Debate'. Whether or not Mike Gillis was any good is no longer relevant, and of very limited interest.

You're not even helping your argument for Jim Benning's competence. If you insist that Mike Gillis was an absolutely terrible GM, and then argue that Jim Benning is better, then there's still room for Benning to be pretty bad, if the best thing you can say about him is that he's better than a GM you consider to be terrible.

How about comparing Benning to Sam Pollock ?
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by SKYO »

Well what I think we can all agree is on even from the media analysts is Benning trading and contracts have been mediocre, but his drafting has been his bread and butter.....yes sans Virtanen(still a work in progress though), I'd like to see how Virtanen is playing when he's 22, 23 years old, that's probably when he's flying around like a Evander Kane style, a fast/gritty/shooter.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Lancer »

SKYO wrote:I'd like to see how Virtanen is playing when he's 22, 23 years old, that's probably when he's flying around like a Evander Kane style, a fast/gritty/shooter.
You could argue that if Kane hadn't been rushed into Atlanta, and put in some time to learn to be a pro on and off the ice in the AHL, he may not have developed the troubling traits that make him virtually untradeable. He didn't put up the same numbers in his rookie year as Keith Jr. did this year, but you hope Keith Jr. doesn't get too big of a head and develop Kane-like tendencies if you're a Flamers fan.

Maybe that was a bit of the calculus behind sending Virtanen to the minors. I recall stories about how he made the Canucks because management didn't want him going back to Calgary, and it was NHL of CHL for the kid, so they bit the bullet that one year hoping he could learn on the fly. I dunno, speculation on my part but it would make sense.

I agree, SKYO, I think Benning's pick of Virtanen needs a couple more years before a judgement is made.
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Ronning's Ghost wrote:You keep losing the plot, RD. The thread is not 'The Great Mike Gillis Debate'. Whether or not Mike Gillis was any good is no longer relevant, and of very limited interest.

You're not even helping your argument for Jim Benning's competence. If you insist that Mike Gillis was an absolutely terrible GM, and then argue that Jim Benning is better, then there's still room for Benning to be pretty bad, if the best thing you can say about him is that he's better than a GM you consider to be terrible.

How about comparing Benning to Sam Pollock ?
Lol at RG. The dude covers himself with piss about Gillis in every thread every day. He's a big hairy moose with a bladder the size of an aphid
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Re: The Great Jim Benning Debate!

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Ronning's Ghost wrote:You keep losing the plot, RD. The thread is not 'The Great Mike Gillis Debate'. Whether or not Mike Gillis was any good is no longer relevant, and of very limited interest.

You're not even helping your argument for Jim Benning's competence. If you insist that Mike Gillis was an absolutely terrible GM, and then argue that Jim Benning is better, then there's still room for Benning to be pretty bad, if the best thing you can say about him is that he's better than a GM you consider to be terrible.

How about comparing Benning to Sam Pollock ?
Listen RG Bunker did ya dig Gilleye's first 3 years at the draft table or were you not cool with it? Shit I don't know how anyone in their right mind could be cool with it, maybe the mad Sicilian - Roberto Macenzzi but that is just about it. The Canucks have zilch from Gilleyes first 3 years at the draft table! Zilch! Hell, Benning did better in the 2nd and 3rd round of his first draft than Gilleye did in ALL the rounds of his first 3 drafts. Gawd fucking awful I tell ya.
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