Unacceptable

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Will the Canucks go and a four game loosing streak?

Poll ended at Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:59 pm

yes
6
60%
no
4
40%
 
Total votes : 10

Unacceptable

Postby clearwatercanuck » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:59 pm

Marc Crawford mostly to blame for this loss. Poor preparation and bad line changes throughout the game cost the canucks their their third straight loss at home. Markus Naslund may as well have went to Sweden for Christmas and sent short bred to back for the team to fatten them up for Christmas. Every shot Marcus takes is either right on the goalies logo or off the top of the glass and back into the canucks zone. I am extremely disappointed with a few players tonight especially, Naslund, Jovo, Linden, Salo, and Auld. Richard Park is gone, this player is not worth a fifth round pick, as he only shows up 10% of the time. The canucks will have a players only meeting tomorrow to discuss what the #$%( is the problem. Wake up before st nick comes down the chimney and put’s some coal in your jock, or something drastic is going to happen guaranteed.

P.S Any chance of sending some scouts to Japan and picking up a couple of 500 lb sumos to play goal?
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Postby Harold » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:08 pm

I wanted to vote in the poll, but had no clue what "Will the Canucks go and a four game loosing streak?" means. You probably should use a spell checker before posting.
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Postby Tretiak » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:11 pm

maybe the poll question secretly means "will they continue the four game losing streak and push it to 5".

'nucks need a goaltender so bad...i haven't been able to watch a canucks game in weeks, and i got a chance tonight, and linden and bert looked great, but auld just looked like he got rented for 5 bucks.
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Postby Media_Man » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:39 pm

Just got back from the game. Don't be too hard on Naslund. The guy has a pulled groin and is having troubles skating. And for those of you who've never played the game, it's hard to take a solid wrist shot, (Naslund's strength), when you don't have a leg to push off of. For the past couple days, he's been skipping practices to go in for treatment.
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Postby Tretiak » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:56 pm

i remember that feeling when i tore my knee up..but naslund is naslund...but the goaltending by auld was attrocious..he had some good moments, but man he just looked like he was stuck.
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Postby Media_Man » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:05 am

Well it also didn't help that his defense refused to move anyone from in front of the net. But you're right, Auld has looked better. Very weak on a couple of goals, especially Peca's and Smyth's.
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Postby Tretiak » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:15 am

jovo should have floored the edmonton netcrashers...but george laroque is strong as an ox, so good luck with that...he outmuscled jovo and the rest of the defense pretty easily a lot of times.
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Postby Meerschaum » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:32 am

Ouch! Just got back from the game.

Probably the worst display of goaltending on both sides of the ice I've seen in a while. Just a lot of unobstructed shots from well out getting by both teams' tenders. The really interesting stat is that the Oil have actually won the last three games where they've had a tender chased out of their net. Very weird (or perhaps it's just stellar coaching . . .).

Nazzy is clearly playing at around 60%. Crow should probably sit him for a game or two until his groin is better.

Baumer missed much of the game. What's his status? I hate to think how threadbare our D could get . . .

Ruttu on the power play??? :shock: Maybe I shouldn't be mixing my barbituates and booze . . .

Bottom line: the boys simply have to be better prepared for these matches against our division rivals - or the Flames, in particular, will hand us our lungs.

I'm guessing that Nonis will be forced to pull the trigger on some goaltending pretty damned soon. Auld's a fine back-up, but we've pressed him into the No. 1 role far too quickly for my tastes.
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Postby tantalum » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:19 am

Unobstructed? From the replays I saw Auld couldn't see 3 or 4 of the first 5 goals...the ones he did see: a breakaway and a puck that went off teh D-man right to the Oiler waiting to the side. I even think the PRonger goal went off the D-man's leg...atleast Pronger thought so as he was miked up last night. (I didn't see goals 6 and 7 as it was way too late out here in halifax to continue watching). Not saying he was great as in the end 7 goals is waaayyyy too many. The Hemsky goal was a wicked shot using Allen as a screen.

That said while I've defended Auld and will continue to do so my defence has been based on a young goaltender getting forced into a starters role..a role he wasn't expected to be in and a role that he has provided more than should be expected from him. I agree he's been pushed into this role way too early...if it was game 60 and Cloutier went down for the year I think auld could handle it but this has been day one from essentially his rookie season. I do think that if auld played the 35-40 of the remaining games he would come out as an average starter somewhere in the 12-23 range which in the end is pretty darn good. But is that the best for him and the team? I don't think it realy is. Nonis still has to decide what he wants to do...a veteran 1A/B type guy to share time for the remainder of this year or a 2-3 year solution until Auld is more ready to assume the starters role (if he continues to improve). Personally I think he should be looking that longer term solution and personally I think he should be looking to hit one out of the ball park. I certainly don't think it's time to panic because of one game when Auld is 4-1-1 in his last 6.

And how the heck does Nonis rid himself of Cloutier next summer?
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Postby rikster » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:30 am

Auld wet the bed when the games mattered the most in Manitoba last season, and he is again wetting the bed with the big club......

Trouble is that the way he is playing Crawford must be losing confidence in him which means that when they do bring in a number one he may not see many more games like so many back ups before him.......

If media man is reading, any truth to the rumor going around that a car involved in a hit and run in Vancouver around the time Cloutier got hurt was Cloutiers?

Take care......
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Postby Jyrki21 » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:56 am

I didn't think Auld was really even that bad -- I'd have said it if it were Cloutier too. (I'm most critical of Dan when he takes himself out of the play, and that wasn't the case here). Kind of reminds me of Game 5 against Minnesota in the 2003 playoffs: we allowed a whackload of goals, and it was hard to blame either goalie for them. We just kept giving Edmonton golden opportunities. There were maybe 2 he really should have had (funny how this "should have had" business -- for Cloutier too -- is really a product of post-1995 hockey. If you watch a tape of any 1970s game, pretty much all the goals "should" have been stopped), but when you have tap-ins from the goalmouth and perfectly placed wrist shots, not so much you can do. I didn't think Markkanen was that bad either -- he was pulled to shake things up, and I can't believe how regularly this deck-chairs-on-the-Titanic strategy does work against Vancouver. From the midpoint of the second period (when goals were coming fast and furious) I predicted that Conklin would shut the door (ask tCL, I was chatting with him on Messenger at the time! ;), and he did.

All that said, our goaltending is obviously still far from sufficient to make anything of a playoff run. Which brings me to my next point:

tantalum wrote: Nonis still has to decide what he wants to do...a veteran 1A/B type guy to share time for the remainder of this year or a 2-3 year solution until Auld is more ready to assume the starters role (if he continues to improve). Personally I think he should be looking that longer term solution and personally I think he should be looking to hit one out of the ball park.

I agree, and it's not actually because of our goaltending, per se. It's because of the other deficiencies in our game.

We match up great with the New York Rangers. I was entirely unsurprised when we beat Ottawa, because we have consistently in recent years. I wasn't even scared of the Flyers. Put us up against red-hot Buffalo, and I'm not worried.

Of course, none of those teams are ones we could face in the first three rounds of the playoffs. There's a reason why we can't win divisional games:

1) Colorado - psychological block and phobia
2) Edmonton - outwork us every game
3) Calgary - can't beat their system
4) Minnesota - OK, we can often beat them, but if they Calgaried a little better, we wouldn't be able to

The rest of the Western Conference isn't miles better for us. Vancouver has tremendous strengths in a vacuum, but we barely get to use them in real-life intra-conference games. (This is why we can beat Detroit, though, because they play a more open game). When was the last time our "high-flying team" beat a rival by four goals? 2002 or so?

What this means is if we can't beat 'em, join 'em. It may be time to change our style if we hope to go anywhere in the playoffs. And the easiest way to do this is to 'hit one out of the park' as Tantalum says, by way of a star goalie. To get any of them (including ones not on the block), we will, by definition, have to overpay. If a goalie is available for a reasonable price, then we won't be the only team after him, obviously. So if we want to make a run this year -- and we don't have much choice, what with 'the window' and all -- we've got to give up a fair bit. (We have to anyway to clear the cap room, obviously, but Jovo alone would take care of that).

Time to look for some nwe strengths... because there isn't a playoff team in the West who doesn't have an extremely realistic shot at beating us.
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Postby tantalum » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:49 am

rikster wrote:Auld wet the bed when the games mattered the most in Manitoba last season, and he is again wetting the bed with the big club......


He was 4-0-1 in his last 5 prior to this game. In those 5 games he had a very respectable 2.51 GAA and 0.917 SV%. Prior to this game he had a 60% win percentage in the games in which he had decisions...wins was the one thing Cloutier supporters constantly point to. Now he's 4-1-1 in his last 6...captured 9 of 12 points.

This does not indicate one way or the other that he is wetting the bed. It was a bad game and that's all it might be. Granted, it may be more but he had a nice 5 game streak immdiately prior to this so one game does not at trend make.

Trouble is that the way he is playing Crawford must be losing confidence in him which means that when they do bring in a number one he may not see many more games like so many back ups before him.......


If he still had confidence in Cloutier this one game is not going to make him lose confidence in Auld. 5 or 6 more games like this in rapid succession then perhaps but not 1.

Take a breath, take stock of the situation and stop and think. Auld is young. It was a bad game but it wasn't the end of the world nor is it a reason for Nonis to panic and make a bad deal. If it happens 3 or 4 more times in short order then yes you panic a bit but right now he's 4-1-1 in his last 6 starts had good numbers over the prvious 5, has average starter numbers for the year thus far...this isn't anything new. This is exactly the same thing the canucks have been dealing with the past 4 years...an average starter prone to bad games. It will most likely get them to the playoffs and certainly hold them into the playoff races until a solution is found. The solution need not forced today. Nonis can wait and see if he can find that 2-3 year solution for a bit yet. If he can't he can always grab a 1A/B solution in short order.

Let's first see how the kid bounces back. If he bounces back with another strong 4-5 games stretch then it was an anomally.

But make no mistake while I'm defending Auld because I think he deserves to be defended given the amount of work he has had this year and the overall good job he has done as a starter I don't think he's ready for this workload. Or atleast ready to be anything more than average with that workload (which for a 24 year old first year guy average is pretty darn good but probably not good enough in this conference or division). I do think this team needs an upgrade in goal...I thought that with Cloutier as everyone knows. i just don't think Auld is any tangible downgrade on Cloutier.
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Postby Grizzly » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:03 am

Auld has done well backing up Cloutier when he played every 4th or 5th game ... but certainly as a starter he is finding a different story line.

I think all of us are now realizing just how difficult it is to be a starting goaltender in the NHL ... tons of pressure and a whole lot different than assuming the back up role. Just because you are a decent back up doesn't at all make you a starter. Makes you appreciate guys like Brodeur, Roy all that much more.

Having said that though Auld is ONLY 24 and is still very young .... no doubt this will be a good learning experience for him and hopefully he can take this experience and grow from it.

As much as we can blame the defence and at lack of coverage etc in last nites game I think it is pretty evident that DN needs to pull the trigger and get a bonifide starting goaltender here before we slide any more.

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Postby magnum44 » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:54 am

I didn't think Auld played that badly last night. Oviously he could have been a lot better, but there were a few sequences where he really made some big saves. Just one of those nights where both goalies looked shaky, and Edmonton responded to the situation by upping there play as a team and we did not. I thought Crow should have pulled him just because it was obvious that it was not going to be a great game from him, and the team might have got a little more motivated with Ouelette coming in. Besides we need to see more of him before we can make a determination on him. Baumer looked like he left with a hand injury probably a broken finger since he didn't come back so I guess Bieksa is going to get his chance if that is the case. Ruutu was the only guy that impressed me last night, and I was glad to see Rick Rypien get a goal. He played junior here and he is a really classy kid so it is good to see him get some success.
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Postby Kowch » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:55 am

These threads are a perfect example of why Vancouver is such a shitty place to be a goalie. No matter who's in net the "fans" tear them down because they're not getting shutouts every night. Wow. Auld had a bad game and now we're going to run him out of town. Nice.

I feel bad for Auld. Here's someone who is essencially a rookie, thrust into the starting role for a team where the expectations are set on winning the cup. With fans who are just frothing at the mouth to crticize any kind of weak goal. A number of people clamouring for Nonis to pull the trigger on some kind of deal are the same people who wanted Auld to be the starter in the first place. You got your wish...

Auld (while not playing in his best game) did have a number of great saves last night. While having a goalie that can continually bail out a team (such as Brodeur) would be nice, WE DON'T HAVE THAT. In fact, we've never had one. The other 5 guys on the ice have to be responsible for not letting their opponants walk in at will. Auld has been solid - not spectacular. And because the TEAM has lost a few in a row we're railing on the goal tender. Last I checked, hockey is a team sport and it takes everyone on the ice to contribute to the win both on offense as well as on defense. And while Auld should have had the shorthanded goal, he let a goal in on a save he SHOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO MAKE. Where the hell were the other 5 guys? And that was the second time in 2 games we let in a shorthanded goal.

While I agree that Nonis should be looking to make tweaks to help get the team back on track, some of the wholesale changes being suggested are way out of line unless you're ready to gut the team and start building again from scratch.
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