Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
canuck4life16
AHL Prospect
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:47 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by canuck4life16 »

Mondi wrote:Betamax,

Do you think the Canucks should sign Richards and trade for Thornton?

Henrik
Thornton
Richards
Horvat

DOPE RIGHT?!
I think that you, uhh, need to start spending a little more time outdoors, MUCHACHO.

Tell me I'm wrong. :mex:
Why are you guys, uh, so mad bro?
User avatar
SKYO
MVP
MVP
Posts: 14992
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by SKYO »

gonna need a 14-15 thread stat!

#CBJ have traded R.J. Umberger and a fourth-round pick in 2015 to #Flyers for Scott Hartnell.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
User avatar
Cousin Strawberry
MVP
MVP
Posts: 26169
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Flyers get bent over and power shagged by the Finnish Fleecer...holy Christ that's a bad trade
If you need air...call it in
User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 14965
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Everywhere

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Cornuck »

SKYO wrote:gonna need a 14-15 thread stat!

#CBJ have traded R.J. Umberger and a fourth-round pick in 2015 to #Flyers for Scott Hartnell.
Then why didn't you start one? :D
Doc: "BTW, Donny was right, you're smug."
Betamax
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: @betamax1080p

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Betamax »

SKYO wrote:gonna need a 14-15 thread stat!

#CBJ have traded R.J. Umberger and a fourth-round pick in 2015 to #Flyers for Scott Hartnell.
So, if Kesler is traded to the flyers, it will be one magical moment to see him re-united with Umberger! 8-)
Uncle dans leg wrote:Flyers get bent over and power shagged by the Finnish Fleecer...holy Christ that's a bad trade
Not really. Umberger has been a consistent 20 goal scorer while not playing with the same calibre of player that Hartnell has and his contract length remaining is two years less than Hartnell. :mex:
User avatar
Cousin Strawberry
MVP
MVP
Posts: 26169
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Only in your opinion....

RJ sucks whereas SH is one of the games best power forwards. There's no comparison
If you need air...call it in
User avatar
Aaronp18
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4670
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:36 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Aaronp18 »

Opens the door to a Kesler to CBJ deal.
Betamax
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: @betamax1080p

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Betamax »

Uncle dans leg wrote:Only in your opinion....

RJ sucks whereas SH is one of the games best power forwards. There's no comparison
If RJ played with Claude Giroux, he'd put up better numbers than SH, IMO. :mex:
Aaronp18 wrote:Opens the door to a Kesler to CBJ deal.
Don't think so. RJ wasn't an obstacle that's it's been made out to be, it's the small market and the team CBJ currently is. When he can literally force a trade to a tier one contender, why settle for a team fighting to get into the Playoffs versus a team that knows they are going to get in and be one of the four or five favourite to win it? :mex:
User avatar
Lancer
CC Legend
Posts: 3123
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:41 am
Location: Kingston, Ontario

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Lancer »

Uncle dans leg wrote:Flyers get bent over and power shagged by the Finnish Fleecer...holy Christ that's a bad trade
Dunno about that. Their numbers last year weren't all that different. Maybe Philly saw the writing on the wall with Hartnell and wanted to get out from under the term of his contract. They get a reasonable facsimile of Hartnell in return for one year and then they have cap space.

Columbus gets a heart-and-soul guy who hits and scores. Yeah I think they won this trade, but not by as much as some may think and it depends on how much mileage Hartnell has left on his body to play his style.

Having said all that, consider me among the surprised when I heard the news. Didn't think Hartnell was available.
Love the Sport. Love the Team.

Hate the League.
User avatar
SKYO
MVP
MVP
Posts: 14992
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by SKYO »

Maybe its a precursor to a deal for Philly to trade one of their centers?
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by herb »

I could see a scenario where Kesler ends up in Columbus. I don't think it's likely, but it's also not unfathomable. It's close to home for Kesler, and the team is on the rise a bit.

Columbus seems to finally have gotten its act together and will be competitive in the weaker Conference. Columbus could very well compete for first place in the Metro division next season. More exposure in the east means a bigger pay day for Ryan in two years and the East is much less grueling than the West which would save on wear and tear. Kesler would be Columbus' first line center.
User avatar
Cousin Strawberry
MVP
MVP
Posts: 26169
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Justin Bourne from The Score seems to agree with me:

The Flyers traded Scott Hartnell for R.J. Umberger, immediately got worse
Justin Bourne Jun 23 2014, 12:18PM
The dominoes are all set for what should be one of hockey’s wildest “silly seasons” in some time. Between trades, the draft and free agency, we’ve been promised big things - major centers might swap jerseys, major picks might be moved, and major rumors are being floated about multiple teams.

And so, with the word "silly" involved, it seemed only fitting today that it would be the Philadelphia Flyers who gave the first tile a flick, moving Scott Hartnell to the Columbus Blue Jackets for R.J. Umberger and a fourth in 2015.

The nitty gritty

Both men are 32. They carry almost identical cap hits (Umberger makes 150k less a year at $4.6m per), only Umberger has three more years on his deal, while Hartnell has five. They both play left wing, shoot left, and check in around 6’2” and 210-ish pounds. No salary is being retained by either team in the deal.

The finer grit

Umberger may have scored 18 goals this past season while Hartnell had 20, but they’re nowhere near equal players. Umberger had his highest shooting percentage since 2005-06 to get there, while Hartnell had his second-lowest shooting percentage in the past decade. Hartnell’s tallied about 40 more points over the past three seasons - in fewer games. If you wanted to dig deeper and look at their advanced statistics, it gets more obvious, and isn’t really a debate.

Here are last year’s:


Scott Hartnell is simply the better player.

An overarching thought on the trade

There has to be some reason Philly made this deal. Ron Hextall, the team’s new GM, is not a dumb man.

Now walk it out

The only logical thing I can think of is that the Flyers truly believe that Hartnell and Umberger are at least somewhat comparable (which is curious to begin with). They think both players are badly depreciating, so it’s better to have the guy whose deal is up in three years instead of five. They regret the Hartnell contract a year after signing it, (Hextall’s loud statement about his predecessor’s deal), and figured it’s better to be free in 2017-18 than 2019-20.

If that’s correct - and it’s the only logical thing I can come up with, given “we wanted to get quicker up front” (real quote) is nonsense from Ron Hextall - it’s a really strange move. Hartnell scored 20 this past season, plays the game physically, and is widely beloved by fans and Philly in general.

You can’t convince me that his previous season wouldn’t net him $4.75M over five years on the open market, let alone from a guy who scored 37 the year before. The pay-to-contribution ratio is pretty bang on. He may not be great in 2017, but you would think they’d have been happy to take another two or three good seasons from Hartnell before deciding what to do with him.

From the Columbus standpoint, it’s a great deal. They’re going to slap Hartnell and Nathan Horton in front of the net on the powerplay and make life hell on goalies and D-men alike. They have some good young talent on the team, and they’re complimenting it nicely with some players that are seriously difficult to deal with - Brandon Dubinsky, Nick Foligno and Boone Jenner. Combined with some speed-and-skill guys like Mark Letestu, Cam Atkinson and Ryan Johansen, and you’ve got a darn fine core of forwards.

It’s hard to sit here and do anything other than scratch your head when looking at it from the Flyers perspective. Low round picks aren’t worth much, top-six forwards are. Over the next few years, your team just got appreciably worse.

Until we find out more about this deal (were there issues with Hartnell and management? Did he slap Ron Hextall? Did he want out?), it looks pretty lopsided in the Blue Jackets favor.

And hey, a playoff-quality team improving in June? Their fans have plenty of reason to be excited about next year.
If you need air...call it in
User avatar
BladesofSteel
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1852
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:29 pm

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by BladesofSteel »

Hartnell's health and/or potential signs of decline is the only explanation as to why Hex would move Hartnell at this point.

If Scott's effectiveness has deteriorated in recent history to the point where the new GM feels there would be little consequence to dealing him within the division, than its a low-risk move to unload a substantial term.

Having said all of this, with all the discussion going on among the teams, a return of RJ and a late pick is pretty telling of what Hartnell's value is seemingly worth.
User avatar
Tciso
MVP
MVP
Posts: 3580
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:44 am

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Tciso »

Maybe Hartnell was not a happy camper. After all, his GM said his contract was shit. That does not make a player happy. This looks like 2 teams swapping their problems. Slight edge to Columbus on this trade, but likely both teams will be better for it, especially if Hartnell was looking to get out.

Any one know the terms of his NMC? Did Hartnell have to waive his NMC for this trade? If so, that says it all.
The Cup is soooooo ours!!!!!!!
User avatar
Strangelove
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 42928
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: Lake Vostok

Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Strangelove »

Tciso wrote:Maybe Hartnell was not a happy camper. After all, his GM said his contract was shit. That does not make a player happy. This looks like 2 teams swapping their problems. Slight edge to Columbus on this trade, but likely both teams will be better for it, especially if Hartnell was looking to get out.

Any one know the terms of his NMC? Did Hartnell have to waive his NMC for this trade? If so, that says it all.
Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski 4m

So to be clear: Hartnell waived NMC when Hextall basically said "he was done there." #Flyers

Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski 2m

Hartnell: "You want to be somewhere where the team wants you and loves you." #Flyers



Rob Mixer ‏@RobMixer 2m

Scott Hartnell said the Flyers told him "he was done there." Said he decided today he wanted to join the #CBJ, a team excited to have him.

Rob Mixer ‏@RobMixer

Hartnell said "you want to be in a place where the team wants you and loves you and wants you to be part of their organization." #CBJ



FULL NMC.

Sounds like Philly said we don't want you and SH said well if you don't want me trade me.

I don't get it though, Hartnell is a team leader and a fan favorite.

Flyers should've gotten more for him even if his contract does take him to age 37.
____
Try to focus on someday.
Locked