If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would ya?

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If trading Horvat + 6th pick was the only way to acquire the 2014 1st pick, would ya do it?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:43 am

YES! YES! YES!
9
18%
NO means NO.
37
76%
Other (Please explain in post)
3
6%
 
Total votes : 49

Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:10 pm

Not one, not two, not three, but four current Corner members of TEAM YES! YES! YES!

nuckster wrote:Yes I would - no balls, no glory.


The Brown Knight wrote:I've had a change of heart........quite drastically actually.

Yes - I would do Bo Horvat + 6th overall pick for Sam Reinhart.


SKYO wrote:Ultimately this helps sway the decision to yes I would certainly trade our 1st + BoHo for a certified #1 center in Reinhart, it almost seems inevitable.


You can add Betamax's vote to TEAM YES! .... Why? Because in this circumstance, Betamax has come to the conclusion that indeed, "Safe is Death." 8-)



How good is that? :mex:

BTW, you have the ability to change your vote up until the morning before the day of the Draft if you're the flip flopping kinda poster.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:15 pm

vic wrote:It's has to be a 3-way deal

Kelser to ANA for 2 prospects + 10th

The 6th + 10th + 1 of those prospects to FLA for the 1st

ANA gets Kesler
VAN keeps one prospects from ANA plus gets Reinhart
FLA gets two top 10 picks plus a prospect


Yeah, that's another potential scenario, but according to The Prattman it's Horvat plus the 6th for Tallon to release his claws on the 1st pick. If that's the only thing he's willing to take as a core of a deal, are you comfortable with that. Yes! or No? That is the questiion, not trying to re-imagine a better trade from a Canucks' perspective. :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:26 pm

Betamax wrote:
Actually, no they don't. That's where the Kesler trade comes in. They send him to the Flyers and in a package get back B. Schenn to be their future No. 2 centre or a (comparable quality player). :mex:


Agreed.

A few posts after this post I made, I actually mentioned the Kesler/B.Schenn scenario. (I would actually try and push for both Schenn bro's if we're offering Kesler there).

Having Sam Reinhart + Brayden Schenn as a 1-2 punch combo at center, should have us set for the next decade down the middle. Gaunce and Matthias would be our 3rd line center options.

I especially like your idea of moving our 2015 first overall for Tyler Myers. Myers still has a realistic shot of developing into a franchise defenseman imo.

Assuming that all of our prospects lived up to their potential and then some, I get excited about thinking what our young core could be in a few years:

-Markstrom as our superstar goalie
-Hamhuis/Myers as our top defensive pairing
-Reinhart and Schenn down the middle, with the Sedin twins and Gaunce chipping in.
-Kassian, Jensen, Shinkaruk, Fox, Cassels, etc. rounding out our forward crops.

Again - I'm obviously being idealistic here, and am assuming that ALL of our prospects live up to their promise, but that could be a pretty good core.

Assuming that we make the move for both Reinhart and B.Schenn, Benning's next move as GM should be in trying to find/acquire the next potential franchise defenseman. With Reinhart and Schenn here, I'd be open to the idea of moving a Cole Cassels or a Dane Fox to possibly acquire said piece.
Last edited by The Brown Knight on Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:26 pm

ESQ wrote:Does Reinhart crack the roster in 2014-15? He's only 2 months younger than Nathan MacKinnon, 6'1 186 lbs.

With the delayed deadline for season-ticket renewals from TL, you gotta think they're looking for a big splash like this prior to the draft, and counting on it to sell some season tickets.

Man its a tough call - the two highest draft picks the Canucks have had in the last 15 years for the franchise's first ever 1st overall. What a way for JB to put his stamp on the franchise!


Yeah, I think you raised a good point. From an "optics" point of view, it would be a BOLD move and could be seen as a Viagra infused injection to an impotent franchise, that has, duh, been "limping" along the past few years. :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:29 pm

SKYO wrote:You forgot Cole Cassels who has a rising point production game to add to his solid two way ability.
2014 regular season - 61gp 24g 49a 73pts +7
2014 playoffs - 12gp 6g 11a 17pts

Talent Analysis

While he may not be the flashiest player in the Canucks prospect system, his two way, defense-oriented game has a certain luster. Still a few years away, Cassels has proven he can be thrust into a number of different situations with success. Above-average in the faceoff circle, responsible on the penalty kill, and he is a solid shot-blocker. Though somewhat slight of frame, he hits regularly. He has a pass-first mentality (much like his father, Andrew, did) and that is demonstrated in his assist statistics. There are differing opinions on his offensive upside.


Future

It is expected that Cassels will return to the Oshawa Generals for his third season with the club. There, he will be able to further refine his game, which has a definite defense-first aura surrounding it. But make no mistake, Cassels can target teammates with the puck and find them, as well. There should be ample opportunity and ice time for Cassels to continue improving his game, with his goal ultimately to earn a pro contract and move up to the AHL.


Cassels is bonafide #2 center imo and Gaunce 3rd line center, Fox can be the utility guy, can play wing/center when needed.

Ultimately this helps sway the decision to yes I would certainly trade our 1st + BoHo for a certified #1 center in Reinhart, it almost seems inevitable.


Thanks SKYO,

Yes I did forget about Cole Cassels. Cassels has a lot of potential as well from what I hear (although I'll admit that I don't know as much about guys like him and Dane Fox as I do with the bigger name prospects).

I'm excited about some of the prospects up front that we have, but I think our next focus might need to be on finding the next blue chip defenseman(men). Guys like Tanev and Corrado are great, but they'll only be 3rd/4th defenseman/2nd pairing guys at best imo.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:46 pm

Florida owes us. Just imagine if we still had Luongo to trade. Luongo and the 6th for their 1st. Makes me sick.

Would I do the move. Maybe. I think in the final analysis if you think Reinhart is the real deal you gotta do the trade. Top 1st line centres don't grow on trees. But I think Florida would rather have a roster player or two plus the 6th. They want to make the playoffs and do some damage now that they have the prodigal son back. But in the end, yes I'd do the deal even though I voted no. I'm hedging my bets!
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby SKYO » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:57 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Florida owes us. Just imagine if we still had Luongo to trade. Luongo and the 6th for their 1st. Makes me sick.

Would I do the move. Maybe. I think in the final analysis if you think Reinhart is the real deal you gotta do the trade. Top 1st line centres don't grow on trees. But I think Florida would rather have a roster player or two plus the 6th. They want to make the playoffs and do some damage now that they have the prodigal son back. But in the end, yes I'd do the deal even though I voted no. I'm hedging my bets!


They might want to stockpile youngsters or yeah they could want one of our numerous top 4 dmen, a lot of options to get this done!!
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Aaronp18 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:32 pm

SKYO wrote:They might want to stockpile youngsters or yeah they could want one of our numerous top 4 dmen, a lot of options to get this done!!


I think one of our defenseman would have to go the other way. They need to get into the playoffs and are looking for some veteran precense on defense.

Wheeling and dealing likely on NHL draft day

Adding further spice to the event is that Florida Panthers general manager Dale Tallon isn't ruling out trading the No. 1 draft pick.

"I've already had a few guys kicking tires," Tallon said. "We are going to get more calls."

Tallon said he isn't ruling out anything, including taking a player at No. 1, accepting a deal to move back in the draft or packaging his No. 1 and other assets in an effort to acquire a top player.

"When I look at my team, I would like to add a couple of top-notch veteran (defenders)," Tallon said.


All of our top 4 have No Trade Clauses, so it may be interesting to see who would waive to go to FLA. Would Garrison want to go back there, I don't think Hamhuis would (and I wouldn't move him regardless), maybe Edler would (if FLA would take him) and perhaps Bieksa might be willing to play with Luo for a couple years before signing wherever he wanted.

Maybe we could get Petrovic back.

6th overall + Bieksa + prospect for 1st overall + Petrovic
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:01 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
SKYO wrote:They might want to stockpile youngsters or yeah they could want one of our numerous top 4 dmen, a lot of options to get this done!!


I think one of our defenseman would have to go the other way. They need to get into the playoffs and are looking for some veteran precense on defense.

Wheeling and dealing likely on NHL draft day

Adding further spice to the event is that Florida Panthers general manager Dale Tallon isn't ruling out trading the No. 1 draft pick.

"I've already had a few guys kicking tires," Tallon said. "We are going to get more calls."

Tallon said he isn't ruling out anything, including taking a player at No. 1, accepting a deal to move back in the draft or packaging his No. 1 and other assets in an effort to acquire a top player.

"When I look at my team, I would like to add a couple of top-notch veteran (defenders)," Tallon said.


All of our top 4 have No Trade Clauses, so it may be interesting to see who would waive to go to FLA. Would Garrison want to go back there, I don't think Hamhuis would (and I wouldn't move him regardless), maybe Edler would (if FLA would take him) and perhaps Bieksa might be willing to play with Luo for a couple years before signing wherever he wanted.

Maybe we could get Petrovic back.

6th overall + Bieksa + prospect for 1st overall + Petrovic


Of the four defensemen with NTCs', Garrison is the most likely to waive to go to FLA, (given that he previously played there). Bieksa is a Canucks for Life. IMO, It would take a lot of being thrown under the bus, or losing through multiple years for him to waive his NTC. :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:21 pm

I dunno. Not sure I would trade BoHo + our 6th pick for the 1st pick. Just feels like a bit too much, we gave up a lot to get BoHo. I wouldn't mind giving up 1 of those assets (BoHo or 6th pick) in a package deal involving others players in prospects such as Shinkaruk/Gaunce or veteran players such as Garrison/Hansen.
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:23 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Florida owes us. Just imagine if we still had Luongo to trade. Luongo and the 6th for their 1st. Makes me sick.

Would I do the move. Maybe. I think in the final analysis if you think Reinhart is the real deal you gotta do the trade. Top 1st line centres don't grow on trees. But I think Florida would rather have a roster player or two plus the 6th. They want to make the playoffs and do some damage now that they have the prodigal son back. But in the end, yes I'd do the deal even though I voted no. I'm hedging my bets!


Horvat can also play wing and he's probably physically ready to take the next step and that would be appealing to add to their team where they already have two young top six centres with the Killer Bs'.

The key to whether GMJB makes the deal is whether they project Reinhart to be a true No.1 PPG+ offensive centre. If they feel he's just as likely to be the next Brendan Morrison, a solid second line centre, they should pass on the deal.

BTW, you have the ability to change your vote up until the morning before the day of the Draft if you're the flip flopping kinda poster. :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Strangelove » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:27 pm

Betamax wrote:BTW, you have the ability to change your vote up until the morning before the day of the Draft if you're the flip flopping kinda poster. :mex:


C'mon, leave him alone you racist bastard. :(
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:34 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Betamax wrote:BTW, you have the ability to change your vote up until the morning before the day of the Draft if you're the flip flopping kinda poster. :mex:


C'mon, leave him alone you racist bastard. :(


duh, Hockey Widow is transsexual? :hmmm:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Betamax » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:46 pm

In a recent exchange with another tweeter @botchford comments on the the suggested deal:

via: https://twitter.com/GoFour3/status/476750859406041089

Stephen Quinn ‏@GoFour3

@botchford will Kes only go to Pitts/Chi? Is Horvat and our 6th enough to get 1st?What does Benning think Horvat's upside is? Delorme goes?

8:40 AM - 11 Jun 2014


Jason Botchford ‏@botchford

@GoFour3 chi has shown zero interest. Kes wants anah/colo/detroit. horvat and 6th is ridiculous. It cost burke 2 3rds to move up for sedins

8:44 AM - 11 Jun 2014


Jason Botchford ‏@botchford

@GoFour3 delorme stays and horvat's upside is seen as a 2L C and he will make the team this fall, unless he comes to camp 70 lbs overweight

8:45 AM - 11 Jun 2014


Here was how the Sedins' deal got done by Burke:

via: http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2010/10/1 ... he-sedins/

1. The wheeling and dealing began when Vancouver sent defenseman Bryan McCabe and a 2000 first-round pick [Ed. Note. -- This pick was acquired as part of the Pavel Bure trade to Florida.] to the Chicago Blackhawks (which became Pavel Vorobiev, who did next to nothing) for the fourth overall pick (which landed with the Rangers and became Brendl).

2. Brian Burke then sent the No. four selection and a pair of third-round picks to the Tampa Bay Lightning for the top overall pick. [Ed. Note. -- According to Burke, this wasn't easy.]

3. Next, Vancouver sent the top pick to the expansion Atlanta Thrashers for the No. two selection and a conditional 2000 third-rounder. The deal was that the Thrashers would take Stefan, leaving the Canucks to take the Sedins in sequential order.


The Canucks had the 4th pick versus the 6th, this time around.

I think the question that needs to be asked is what the Canucks feel The Son of Paul's upside is. If it's a 1L Franchise C, you gotta find a way to get him. :mex:
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Re: If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would

Postby Aaronp18 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:52 pm

Betamax wrote:Of the four defensemen with NTCs', Garrison is the most likely to waive to go to FLA, (given that he previously played there). Bieksa is a Canucks for Life. IMO, It would take a lot of being thrown under the bus, or losing through multiple years for him to waive his NTC. :mex:


If Garrison enjoyed FLA so much why wouldn't he have just re-signed there?

Garrison lives in White Rock, he wants to be here.

Bieksa lives in Ontario.

I think if the Canucks are headed in a new direction Bieksa would be willing to waive. And then he signs with TO in a couple years to finish his career near home.
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