Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

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BurningBeard
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by BurningBeard »

Island Nucklehead wrote:The Pronger deal is one of the most ridiculous things in professional sports. The man himself admits he'll never play again, yet refuses to "officially" retire. If I was Shea Weber I'd be looking for a concussion to milk...
The Flyers also didn't read the CBA properly when Pronger signed the deal, and didn't realize they'd be on the hook for his cap hit if he retired.
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Hockey Widow
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Hockey Widow »

BurningBeard wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:The Pronger deal is one of the most ridiculous things in professional sports. The man himself admits he'll never play again, yet refuses to "officially" retire. If I was Shea Weber I'd be looking for a concussion to milk...
The Flyers also didn't read the CBA properly when Pronger signed the deal, and didn't realize they'd be on the hook for his cap hit if he retired.

You are right. The Flyers screwed up on that one. But there is no reason for him to officially retire as long as he has a legit injury. Why walk away from that money if he is so injured he can't play. He was in good shape when he suffered his last injury and still a valuable player. Not team canada valuable anymore but still a contributor to the Flyers. I don't doubt the legitimacy of his injury.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Per »

ukcanuck wrote:If luongo had come through with the game of his life in 2011 and pitched a shut out in game seven.
We would not be having this conversation. There would be a statue of Gillis on griffiths way, and we would be marvelling at the guts it took to draft such an amazing contract...

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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by dbr »

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote: As for Pronger, there is very good reason for him not to retire. If he does so he forfeits his salary. While on LTIR he gets paid.
The Pronger deal is one of the most ridiculous things in professional sports. The man himself admits he'll never play again, yet refuses to "officially" retire. If I was Shea Weber I'd be looking for a concussion to milk...
The only thing ridiculous about the Pronger contract is that Bold Moves Holmgren signed it without realizing it would be a 35+ contract.. up there with the Jeff Finger signing and the ROR "what do you mean, waivers" offer sheet Jay Feaster tendered.

As for why Pronger doesn't retire.. why on earth would he? What's the point of these long term deals if not to secure these players financial security in the event of a career ending (and post-hockey life altering) injury?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by dbr »

RoyalDude wrote:Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room
Provided he can look at the bright lights for 20 minutes at a time.

But hey, he's got money right? ;)
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

I'm sure he can, if the injury occurred when he was 28 he'd be back in uniform doing his thing. It's a well timed injury at his age to take full advantage of his contractual rights. Didn't come out of retirement once? I might be thinking of someone else
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Island Nucklehead »

RoyalDude wrote:I'm sure he can, if the injury occurred when he was 28 he'd be back in uniform doing his thing. It's a well timed injury at his age to take full advantage of his contractual rights. Didn't come out of retirement once? I might be thinking of someone else
Yeah. I would imagine if the Flyers had the ability to cut Pronger due to his inability to play, he would be back in uniform at some point. For the record, my problem is not with Pronger, it's the system. The guy admits he won't play anymore, to me that means he is retired. Good for him for getting paid for doing nothing, or being a "scout", but IMO there should be a mechanism in place where he needs to continuously strive to return to health in order to maintain his status as an "active" NHLer.

The other thing is, if this was a knee injury, would it still be the same scenario? We all know how unpredictable head injuries are, but if this was a recurring knee injury, and doctors told him he'd never play again, would he still be able to say he's an "active" player because he goes for a jog every 2 days?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by herb »

RoyalDude wrote:Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room
I'm guessing you have never had a concussion...
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Per »

herb wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room
I'm guessing you have never had a concussion...
I agree. A girl at work is married to a former hockey player (SHL+DEL, has won a German championship with Frankfurt) who had his career cut short by two concussions within a short time. The second is mindboggling... Hit from behind by a team mate during a scrimmage while he was still not cleared to play.... What an idiot! I mean, he wasn't cleared for full contact yet, but had started practicing with the team and a guy hits him from behind into the boards... After that he barely made it out of bed for two years. Constant headache. Couldn't focus. Couldn't work or study or anything. Troubled by light. Troubled by sounds. Troubled by motion sickness. Thankfully he has regained his health now. The pension checks from German/Swedish hockey are not that fat, so he went back to complete high school, then went to college and now actually has a law degree. Impressive, imho, but the gist of what I'm saying is that recovering from a severe concussion is not my idea of having a swell time. No matter how rich you are.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by BurningBeard »

herb wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Pronger must be living the dream right now, collecting some pretty fine grease off ole Snyder there while not having to put up with rigors of travel, training, practice etc. Probably slaying X-box all day long on his expensive couch in his expensive media room
I'm guessing you have never had a concussion...
At this point an insurance company is paying his multi-million dollar salary, and not the Flyers. For that reason alone you can assume his injury is legit and indisputable.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by dbr »

Island Nucklehead wrote:Yeah. I would imagine if the Flyers had the ability to cut Pronger due to his inability to play, he would be back in uniform at some point. For the record, my problem is not with Pronger, it's the system. The guy admits he won't play anymore, to me that means he is retired. Good for him for getting paid for doing nothing, or being a "scout", but IMO there should be a mechanism in place where he needs to continuously strive to return to health in order to maintain his status as an "active" NHLer.
I don't know the minutiae of Pronger's health situation but you have to wonder if he comes back from the types of concussion problems he's had.. is that best for anyone? Does anyone think his post concussion issues are anything other than a complete quagmire (and that forcing a guy back into action is if anything, possibly exposing oneself to legal liability)?
The other thing is, if this was a knee injury, would it still be the same scenario? We all know how unpredictable head injuries are, but if this was a recurring knee injury, and doctors told him he'd never play again, would he still be able to say he's an "active" player because he goes for a jog every 2 days?
Well, look at Matthias Ohlund. Has all but admitted he'll never play again due to his knees but he is still collecting a paycheque from the Bolts (or their insurer, I guess).

And good on him.

Like I said, teams fall all over themselves to give money and term to these guys.. hardly seems fair to pull the rug out from under them once their bodies finally give out.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by herb »

BurningBeard wrote:At this point an insurance company is paying his multi-million dollar salary, and not the Flyers. For that reason alone you can assume his injury is legit and indisputable.
True dat. The insurance pukes will be following up regularly to ensure Pronger's issues are legit.

Pro athletes are some of the most competitive people on the planet, and Chris Pronger is or was at the top of that heap. It's highly unlikely that somebody as high profile and competitive as Pronger would want to be undone by something like a concussion, especially after he has made $100M+.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by herb »

Mondi wrote:The problem with stating that because an insurance company is covering Pronger's salary and therefore his injury is real is that a lot of mTBI's are difficult to detect on scans such as MRI and CT. In fact, the diagnosis often comes down to neurological testing and the injure person's self-reporting.
A MRI or CT scan won't show anything unless there is bleeding or significant swelling, which are of concern in the first 48 hours or so after the injury.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Post by Meds »

Mondi wrote:But the thread is derailed. The issue originally was would fans prefer a complete rebuild or another attempt to build around Kesler, Sedins, Bieksa, Hamhuis and the young-ins.
I would say that we are locked into the latter plan.

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Dank
Kes
Bur
Juice
Hamhuis

That's our core. Like it or not, they are the guys who have NTC's and have been the nucleus of this team for a long while. Granted, Hamhuis has only been here for 4 seasons. Edler might need to be on this list, but I can't get over my bias, and there are a couple of other names that could fit on that list, but as Torts said, the core needs to change.

IMHO, those six guys are fine as a core that Linden/New GM augments and builds around with players who can both support, and succeed, them in a few years. If those players can bounce back, as many of you think, then it is the guys like Higgins, Hansen, Edler, and maybe even Garrison, that need to go and be replaced with some youth and, if possible, one experienced top-6 forward.....and a top-6 defenseman if need be.
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