Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby givemeda411 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:40 pm

vic wrote:Don't see the point of buying out Booth in the final year of his contract, when he could be traded at the deadline as a pure rental for a pick. I'm sure if he was becoming a UFA this summer, any true contender would have loved to add him to their roster for the stretch run - even as an insurance policy.

Use the money that would be used on Booth's buyout to buyout Torts and hold on to that one compliance buyout as long as you can (does it ever expire?)


We can only use it this off-season, otherwise we loose it. I bet the new GM tries to move him, otherwise buys him out. We can use the roster space or someone younger or use the cap space to go after Statsny.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:47 pm

SO if the owner is writing the cheque and asks you the jsp fan who would you buy out if you had the chance. One player doesn't matter who.

I pick 14.

If the twins weren't joined at the hip I may pick Daniel but he has more of a chance being productive than Burrows. Third choice would be Garrison or Edler. David Booth would be number 5.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ClamRussel » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:19 pm

Booth should have been bought out last year but was hurt. Whats the point now, he was actually playing quite well at the end. Possibly one of our top wingers during the last month. Considering what we actually got in the end (and being stuck w/ almost a mill per on our cap) Lu should have been bought out. That contract & trade essentially guarantees we get a MILLION less than every other team for a decade. Gillis should have refused that part of the deal or kept Lu. That trade will linger like a stale fart because of the cap ramifications.

The remaining buyout should perhaps be used on Garrison.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby herb » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:40 am

The only way it makes sense to buy anybody out is if the team plans on operating at the cap maximum next season.

I don't really see that happening because expensive veteran players will be traded out of town and replaced with cheap young players. We will need to be very active in free agency to be a cap max team.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby dangler » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:06 am

It's interesting how alot of us name Garrison as one of the players to be moved, as Burning Beard enlightened us in another thread:
"When did Garrison piss in everyone's cereal? Christ, the guy has been one of the top 30 DMen for points all season. You know who else is in that range? Guys like Brian Campbell and Jay Bouwmeester. His contract for his production is fine, you'll be hard pressed to replace him at that price."
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:16 am

I don't see the point of buying out Booth, Burrows, or Garrison.

For starters, all three dealt with injuries this season. While that is not an excuse, it is an explanation for their dreadful (or subpar) seasons.

I teeter back and forth between thinking the team is destined to miss the playoffs again no what they do with this core, and the idea that they are two or three tweaks from making the playoffs and having as good a shot as any team that isn't Boston, Chicago or LA.

If I was GM, I MIGHT try to go for it next season if it was possible to get some players in here to help.

If you look at MTL, they were able to acquire useful players to add to their core through trade and UFA. A team led by the likes of Gionta, Vanek, PK, Price, and Pacioretty is on paper perhaps no better than a Canuck team playing to its potential.

I'd be on board if the team could acquire two significant fowards via trade and/or UFA. Whether the buyout is necessary, I'm not sure.

As I've stated before, two lines built around Henrik/Daniel and Kesler/UFA, plus a youth line built around Horvat/Kassian/Matthias, and a forth line made up of Santorelli/Richardson/Higgins, could work.

If they could then get something for Edler (even a pick), and fill that spot with Corrado. And then signup a WIllie Mitchell-like defenceman to play 6/7, theycould MAYBE be ok.

I also like the idea of a Ryan Miller or Cam Ward to back up Eddie.

Anyway, getting WAAAYYY ahead of myself. As for the buyout, it may or may not be necessary. Perhaps someone can educate me, if they buyout Booth does that mean his cap is gone and off the books 100%?

Also, if Luongo retires after 36 but before 42 does that ridiculous 800K come off of our books? Or is Vancouver stuck with it until 2021?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby herb » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:24 am

dangler wrote:"When did Garrison piss in everyone's cereal? Christ, the guy has been one of the top 30 DMen for points all season. You know who else is in that range? Guys like Brian Campbell and Jay Bouwmeester. His contract for his production is fine, you'll be hard pressed to replace him at that price."


It's like a stupid idea proposed by one mongoloid spreads like the herp.

The defense wasn't the problem this year. I actually still think it's one of the deeper units in the league. I don't even think coaching was a huge issue.

This forward group just reeks. There are some nice pieces there, but for whatever reason it doesn't work together as a unit. I'd look at moving Kesler and Hansen and signing two solid second line forward UFAs (Bolland, Stastny, Michalek??). That along with whatever we get in return for Kesler would refresh the group and help get us going on the retool.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:32 am

Herb, I like your thinking.

The team has rarely brought in proven UFA forwards. They often try the $1 million dollar project. Minnesota overspent for Parise and Sutter...but...it worked out (for now). I'd be okay with spending FA's UFA money, if it meant a couple of solid NHLers who can get you 20 goals and throw some hits.

I mean looking back Sundin, Demitra, and Samuelsson weren't so bad, were they?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby herb » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:59 am

Mondi wrote:Herb, I like your thinking.

The team has rarely brought in proven UFA forwards. They often try the $1 million dollar project. Minnesota overspent for Parise and Sutter...but...it worked out (for now). I'd be okay with spending FA's UFA money, if it meant a couple of solid NHLers who can get you 20 goals and throw some hits.

I mean looking back Sundin, Demitra, and Samuelsson weren't so bad, were they?


Yeah. My priorities are:
1) Not having an Edmonton Oilers-esque losing culture for our young players. I'd rather be patient with our youngsters and provide them with a decent environment where they can grow into the next core.
2) Not throwing our young players to the wolves in top six roles they probably aren't ready to handle. I'd rather put veterans in those positions and make our young players earn their stripes the right way and force themselves onto the roster rather than have rosters spots given to them.
3) Building depth. Young guys like Shinkaruk, Gaunce and Fox making their way to the AHL next year will help, but management also has to do a better job of making sure Tom Fucking Sestito isn't playing in the top 9 on a regular basis.
4) Taking our veterans out of their comfort zone. Big changes mean new personalities with renewed expectations which helps to get the blood pumping.

Assuming Kesler is dealt, if there is one guy I would be willing to overpay for this off season it would be Dave Bolland. He's a decent age, versatile and plays center. I have no idea if he'd be interested in coming here, but I'd take a run at him.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Jovocop » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:14 am

herb wrote:Assuming Kesler is dealt, if there is one guy I would be willing to overpay for this off season it would be Dave Bolland. He's a decent age, versatile and plays center. I have no idea if he'd be interested in coming here, but I'd take a run at him.


Dave Bolland, no thank you! I rather the Canucks go after Paul Stastny. A playmaker after Henrik is what this team needs, not another pest.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ClamRussel » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:20 am

Garrison had 2 really good months for pts (Oct & Dec) but only 4 pts since the allstar break. Hopefully an injury explains his skating (and falling) in the final stretch but I think most of the criticism comes from not getting his shot through let alone on target. The length of this contract is perhaps what makes it a buyout candidate, same with Burrows as opposed to Booth's single year remaining.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby herb » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:31 am

Dave Bolland's a good two way center, which is exactly what we'll need if we trade Kesler. I do think Bolland is overrated, though.

Stastny isn't a great skater, which is only going to get worse as he gets into this 30's. I'm not saying I would be against bringing him in, just pointing oot that he isn't perfect. Stastny on a five year deal would be palatable.

Buying out Garrison would be beyond stoopid, especially considering Edler is apparently on his way to the airport as we speak. We have enough problems without creating massive holes on the back end. I have no idea how he has become a scapegoat given many players had way bigger issues this season than he did.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Jovocop » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:55 am

herb wrote:Dave Bolland's a good two way center, which is exactly what we'll need if we trade Kesler. I do think Bolland is overrated, though.

Stastny isn't a great skater, which is only going to get worse as he gets into this 30's. I'm not saying I would be against bringing him in, just pointing oot that he isn't perfect. Stastny on a five year deal would be palatable.

Buying out Garrison would be beyond stoopid, especially considering Edler is apparently on his way to the airport as we speak. We have enough problems without creating massive holes on the back end. I have no idea how he has become a scapegoat given many players had way bigger issues this season than he did.


Two things that I dislike about Bolland: His mouth and his toughness. Well, his face too but it has nothing to do with hockey. If the Canucks indeed want to clean up the image, Bolland would be a step in the wrong direction. He yaps too much.

Agreed, Garrison is a keeper. Edler, on the other hand, should be traded unless the Canucks can get him another Salo type of defensive partner.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:32 am

Mondi wrote:I don't see the point of buying out Booth, Burrows, or Garrison.

For starters, all three dealt with injuries this season. While that is not an excuse, it is an explanation for their dreadful (or subpar) seasons.

I teeter back and forth between thinking the team is destined to miss the playoffs again no what they do with this core, and the idea that they are two or three tweaks from making the playoffs and having as good a shot as any team that isn't Boston, Chicago or LA.

If I was GM, I MIGHT try to go for it next season if it was possible to get some players in here to help.

If you look at MTL, they were able to acquire useful players to add to their core through trade and UFA. A team led by the likes of Gionta, Vanek, PK, Price, and Pacioretty is on paper perhaps no better than a Canuck team playing to its potential.

I'd be on board if the team could acquire two significant fowards via trade and/or UFA. Whether the buyout is necessary, I'm not sure.

As I've stated before, two lines built around Henrik/Daniel and Kesler/UFA, plus a youth line built around Horvat/Kassian/Matthias, and a forth line made up of Santorelli/Richardson/Higgins, could work.

If they could then get something for Edler (even a pick), and fill that spot with Corrado. And then signup a WIllie Mitchell-like defenceman to play 6/7, theycould MAYBE be ok.

I also like the idea of a Ryan Miller or Cam Ward to back up Eddie.

Anyway, getting WAAAYYY ahead of myself. As for the buyout, it may or may not be necessary. Perhaps someone can educate me, if they buyout Booth does that mean his cap is gone and off the books 100%?

Also, if Luongo retires after 36 but before 42 does that ridiculous 800K come off of our books? Or is Vancouver stuck with it until 2021?



Yes, if we use our compliance buy out the cap comes off our books 100%

Yes, if Luongo retires that ridiculous 800k comes off our books. BUT THEN WE EAT MILLIONS IN CAP DUE TO THE CAP RECAPTURE PLUS 15%OF FLORIDA'S CAP RECAPTURE!
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ClamRussel » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:06 pm

herb wrote: Edler is apparently on his way to the airport as we speak.

...says who?

Hockey Widow wrote:Yes, if we use our compliance buy out the cap comes off our books 100%

Yes, if Luongo retires that ridiculous 800k comes off our books. BUT THEN WE EAT MILLIONS IN CAP DUE TO THE CAP RECAPTURE PLUS 15%OF FLORIDA'S CAP RECAPTURE!

They should compliance buy-out that $800k
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