Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

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Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:58 am

So, tonight is the start of round 1. Typically, this is my favourite day of the year as an NHL fan. The first round is usually the best round--upsets, great match-ups, collapses...etc.

As with the last time the Canucks missed the playoffs, I fully expect to tune into a game and watch the quality and speed and notice how apparent it is that the Canucks (1) do not deserve to be in the post season this year and (2) could not compete even if they were there.

That said, it is has felt like the team hasn't really competed in the playoffs since 2011.

So, I suppose the questions I put to the faithful in this thread are threefold (and yes this has been touched on in other threads):

1. Do you think the Canucks could add some pieces, young and old, and return to respectability and competitiveness next season?

2. If so, how would you suggest they best go about?

3, If not, do you think it would be best to have 2-4 down years and load up on bona fide first round studs and attempts to make a run in 2020.*

*The idea being that Kassian, Tanev, Jensen, Lack, Corrado, Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, are the blocks upon which we add the 2014 (6th), 2015 (1st?), and 2016 first round picks. Then of course you'd find value in return for Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Bieksa, and Hamhuis over the next 1 to 3 seasons. Guys like Higgins, Hansen, Santorelli, Matthias, Sestito, Richardson...etc. are replaceable parts that will neither help nor hinder this process. The Sedins would hang around to support and guide development and possibly be third liners and/or the 2nd PP unit at age 38-39, not unlike the Andreychuk role in 2004.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Jovocop » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:01 am

Mondi wrote:
*The idea being that Kassian, Tanev, Jensen, Lack, Corrado, Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, are the blocks upon which we add the 2014 (6th), 2015 (1st?), and 2016 first round picks. Then of course you'd find value in return for Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Bieksa, and Hamhuis over the next 1 to 3 seasons. Guys like Higgins, Hansen, Santorelli, Matthias, Sestito, Richardson...etc. are replaceable parts that will neither help nor hinder this process. The Sedins would hang around to support and guide development and possibly be third liners and/or the 2nd PP unit at age 38-39, not unlike the Andreychuk role in 2004.


Are you seriously suggesting that the Canucks have a good chance beating the Oilers, Flames, Islanders, Sabres, and Panthers to draft the first overall in 2015?? As bad as this year, the Canucks are still only pick at 6th overall. How bad do they have to be in order to draft 1st overall??
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:07 am

It was tongue in cheek, but I don't think the Canucks are trending up currently.

If they flip Kesler for a pick and a prospect, you've got the ingredients for a terrible season.

That said, I doubt they'll be picking 1st in 2015.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby ClamRussel » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:26 pm

The season they'd have to have...how would season ticket renewals fare? The Aquas would probably fire Linden *and* Smyl. Even then, look at the Sabres this year & imagine the feeling of losing the top pick. The cherry on top of a fabulous campaign. ...why is there not a team in Hamilton again?
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Tciso » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:03 pm

Mondi wrote:1. Do you think the Canucks could add some pieces, young and old, and return to respectability and competitiveness next season?


Yes. Both Horvat and Santorelli will be in the lineup next year. and Booth will be replaced.
2. If so, how would you suggest they best go about?


I dunno who is available on the free agency list, but, there has to be a good 2nd liner available somewhere. As always, we are still looking for a natural goal scorer, or at least someone who can pot a few garbage goals (our goal line scrambles have been terrible this year). The good news is we have about $10mil in cap space, in addition to whatever we get back in trades for the likes of Kesler or Edler, if they get traded.

3, If not, do you think it would be best to have 2-4 down years and load up on bona fide first round studs and attempts to make a run in 2020.*

hell no!!!

*The idea being that Kassian, Tanev, Jensen, Lack, Corrado, Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, are the blocks upon which we add the 2014 (6th), 2015 (1st?), and 2016 first round picks. Then of course you'd find value in return for Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Bieksa, and Hamhuis over the next 1 to 3 seasons. Guys like Higgins, Hansen, Santorelli, Matthias, Sestito, Richardson...etc. are replaceable parts that will neither help nor hinder this process. The Sedins would hang around to support and guide development and possibly be third liners and/or the 2nd PP unit at age 38-39, not unlike the Andreychuk role in 2004.


I think Edler, Kesler and Burrows are all trade-able. Higgins and Hanson have great contracts and good character players, but just need better supporting players, so I'd keep them. But, trying to suck for 3-4 years in order to stock up on picks rarely works. Picks often don't work out, take too long to mature, or teams get impatient.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby SKYO » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:22 pm

Mondi wrote:1. Do you think the Canucks could add some pieces, young and old, and return to respectability and competitiveness next season?

Health is the main concern, ever since 2011 Kesler, our only main weapon after the Sedins, has had many injuries, and now with the added responsibilities and ice time the Sedins have been oft injured as well.

Sad to see Daniel go down like that thanks to Byron late in the game, in the last meaningless game of a season to top it off, that trio really have taken a beating the past couple years and it has been the teams achilles' heel

When the Sedins and Kesler are close to 100% this team plays like rock stars, but it's a roll of the dice to count on them being fully healthy for a full season + playoffs again.

Having said that it's almost better to just go along and plan on them being healthy and hope for the best, as they have NTC's and Kesler may or may not get good value in a potential trade.


Mondi wrote:2. If so, how would you suggest they best go about?


If the plan is to keep Kesler behind the Sedins, I'd prefer to get a 2nd line LW who can also play center as backup for when/if Hank or RK go down to injury.

I'd also bring along Horvat on the 3rd line, so he can take over in a couple years for when Kesler leaves to Buffalo/Philly/Detroit/Pens via UFA.

Mondi wrote:3, If not, do you think it would be best to have 2-4 down years and load up on bona fide first round studs and attempts to make a run in 2020.*


The other option is the 'why not at least try' category, in offering Kesler in a package deal to Nashville for Shea Weber before July 1st before Shea gets his huge signing bonus.

Or offer RK to the Pens for Derrick Pouliot, Bennett, 1st or to the Ducks for Palms/Theodore/Ottawa 1st.

If any of those teams don't accept then we'll happily keep Kesler and keep trying to win it all while Horvat develops, plus whoever we get in this draft.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Mondi » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:40 pm

I would like to address the idea that having a bad couple of season to "get good picks" does not work that often.

In my view, it is the best way to build a championship team. If you look at the Cup winners of younder they are most often born and bread out of a down turn followed by a couple of top picks. Often top 3, but certainly a string of 3 or 4 quality first rounders.

For every Edmonton and, formerly perhaps, Columbus that this has not worked for there is a Chicago, Pittsburgh, Colorado (of old), Anaheim, or LA that it has worked for.

I suppose the underlying idea is that all good teams are built on their own picks.

I don't have a problem with 2 or 3 terrible seasons, if it means another two first liners like 22 and 33. Let's face it, a couple of years of getting pumped in the first round isn't much better than a couple of years just missing the playoffs, or a couple of years of last place.

But, I don't prefer it, and I tend to think the team could rebuild on the fly like San Jose and Philly, it will require a Claude Giroux or Logan Couture-type step up from Kassian, Horvat or someone else. That all said, the probability of getting a Doughty, Kane, Getzlaf, Toews...etc. goes up the higher we pick.

What I'm curious is to know what the board thinks...seems like people are leaning to a build as they go approach.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby SKYO » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:26 pm

Mondi wrote:I would like to address the idea that having a bad couple of season to "get good picks" does not work that often.

In my view, it is the best way to build a championship team. If you look at the Cup winners of younder they are most often born and bread out of a down turn followed by a couple of top picks. Often top 3, but certainly a string of 3 or 4 quality first rounders.

I suppose the underlying idea is that all good teams are built on their own picks.

But, I don't prefer it, and I tend to think the team could rebuild on the fly like San Jose and Philly, it will require a Claude Giroux or Logan Couture-type step up from Kassian, Horvat or someone else. That all said, the probability of getting a Doughty, Kane, Getzlaf, Toews...etc. goes up the higher we pick.

What I'm curious is to know what the board thinks...seems like people are leaning to a build as they go approach.


Well if there's ever a year to draft high for this team, this draft is probably it, we got a 6th overall - add on a couple ++ and in theory we should be able to move up to 2nd or 3rd overall, getting one of the Sam's is the mighty solution for this good team to quickly become a contender fast, along with a few astute UFA signings and trades this team needs to get the right mix of vets/rookies/young guns/skill/grit to compete with any team in the league.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby vic » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:44 pm

Don't see the point of buying out Booth in the final year of his contract, when he could be traded at the deadline as a pure rental for a pick. I'm sure if he was becoming a UFA this summer, any true contender would have loved to add him to their roster for the stretch run - even as an insurance policy.

Use the money that would be used on Booth's buyout to buyout Torts and hold on to that one compliance buyout as long as you can (does it ever expire?)
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby dangler » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:27 pm

Not a fan of tanking it for a high draft pick,the teams not that bad for such a drastic measure . The fans and aquamen would not stand for it anyway.
I like the idea of keeping Booth for his final year as he did show a little bright spot at the end of the season and he will be playing for a new contract. Having said that if a trade came available for him I would expect the Canucks to jump at it.
I would like to see torts stick around for another season,he wasn't the main problem this year and expect a different approach next season if he is still here.
I doubt Edler is tradable at this point and hope he can rebound next year otherwise a good buyout candidate.

Changes have to be made and hopefully Trev & co. can do something with all the fucking NTC's Gillis left the club with.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Betamax » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:23 pm

vic wrote:Don't see the point of buying out Booth in the final year of his contract, when he could be traded at the deadline as a pure rental for a pick. I'm sure if he was becoming a UFA this summer, any true contender would have loved to add him to their roster for the stretch run - even as an insurance policy.

Use the money that would be used on Booth's buyout to buyout Torts and hold on to that one compliance buyout as long as you can (does it ever expire?)


The compliance buyout option (which Canucks have one remaining) only last for this upcoming off-season. It only make sense to buyout Booth if the Canucks plan to be operating at near the cap ceiling next season which has been pegged at approx. 70M and they are aggressive in the UFA market. That might not be the case if they do manage to deal an Edler and Kesler as I don't expect the return coming back would match what's leaving in that scenario.

If it a year of "rebuilding" ... and they plan to play a lot of younger players, then having him around for veteran experience for one more season might be okay and there is potential if he regains some form to a 40-50 point pace, you have the option to deal him as a Playoffs Rental for a pick.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:26 pm

vic wrote:Don't see the point of buying out Booth in the final year of his contract, when he could be traded at the deadline as a pure rental for a pick. I'm sure if he was becoming a UFA this summer, any true contender would have loved to add him to their roster for the stretch run - even as an insurance policy.

Use the money that would be used on Booth's buyout to buyout Torts and hold on to that one compliance buyout as long as you can (does it ever expire?)



There is a small window this year to exercise any remaining compliance buy outs a team has. After that it's done. Only regular buy outs after that.

Each team was given two compliance buy outs under the new CBA to compensate for the lowering of the salary cap. But they were/are time limited. I'm not sure of the dates but it isn't open ended so when the window opens the team has a short period of time to decide.

Depending upon what other moves the team makes I would be ok to keep Booth for the final year but if we don't trade a core or two I would rather use his cap space in free agency.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Betamax » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:38 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
vic wrote:Don't see the point of buying out Booth in the final year of his contract, when he could be traded at the deadline as a pure rental for a pick. I'm sure if he was becoming a UFA this summer, any true contender would have loved to add him to their roster for the stretch run - even as an insurance policy.

Use the money that would be used on Booth's buyout to buyout Torts and hold on to that one compliance buyout as long as you can (does it ever expire?)



There is a small window this year to exercise any remaining compliance buy outs a team has. After that it's done. Only regular buy outs after that.

Each team was given two compliance buy outs under the new CBA to compensate for the lowering of the salary cap. But they were/are time limited. I'm not sure of the dates but it isn't open ended so when the window opens the team has a short period of time to decide.

Depending upon what other moves the team makes I would be ok to keep Booth for the final year but if we don't trade a core or two I would rather use his cap space in free agency.


Yeah ... I pretty much agree with you. If Booth had multi-years remaining, then it would be a different story and CBO in terms of risk/reward would lean towards a buyout. But with only one more season remaining and from a dollar point of view, you'd still have to replace his place on the roster. Do you think you could find a player that will make 1/3 of Booth's AAV ... providing better utility to the team? That is the question.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:08 pm

I would say shit the bed next season to get in the top 5 at draft time. It isn't just McDavid out there . There is Eichel , Barzal, Strome, Konecksny. Scouts said this one is similar to 2003 and probably better than 08 and 13.

Flog Kesler and one of the d men. Give Burrows the boot if you can to the Habs or buy him out. There is no reason that this can't be competitive in 2015-16 with just one more crappy season, a couple of decent trades and a shrewd signing or two. This isn't Calgary here folks.
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Re: Missing the Playoffs (and its ramifications)

Postby SKYO » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I would say shit the bed next season to get in the top 5 at draft time. It isn't just McDavid out there . There is Eichel , Barzal, Strome, Konecksny. Scouts said this one is similar to 2003 and probably better than 08 and 13.

Flog Kesler and one of the d men. Give Burrows the boot if you can to the Habs or buy him out. There is no reason that this can't be competitive in 2015-16 with just one more crappy season, a couple of decent trades and a shrewd signing or two. This isn't Calgary here folks.


Well with an RK trade for picks/prospects, some Sedin injuries, the same tired/no chemistry defense unit, and Lack/Markstrom in net all season and the Canucks should easily get a top 5 overall pick in 2015 lol. *sadface*
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