What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

[herb]

Well if the rumors were true that hiring Torts was an ownership decision then you can see easily how the lack of a vision on ice has come right on down from the top.

The change from being a puck possession, skilled team always seemed like an odd one. I can easily rationalize that being an ownership mandate.

Now that ownership has been proven wrong, hopefully they back off and let management manage.

[Topper]

I believe what he meant by the moving goal posts was in how the game is played & officiated as well as the CBA changing....

That is so 2012.

[herb]

In that interview Gillis sounds like a man who fully expects to be the boss of this team next season. Has he gotten a vote of confidence or is he just beginning to build his case?

His statement that he's not sure if he'll be around was lawyer speak deflection at its best. Writers are calling it candid, but really he just turned the conversation around into the conversation that he wanted to have. He didn't want to talk about Torts' future, he wanted to talk about his plan, his vision.

I'm hopeful. At least Gillis acknowledges the fact that the organization has made some serious errors in how they have tried to mold the team.

[SKYO]

Certainly sounds like he had a plan but organizationally the plan changed as they tried to adapt to what MG refers to as the moving goalposts. When he says he is tired of chasing moving goalposts I think he is saying the team has been trying to change to how they perceive both the NHL and other teams in the West changing, rather than the team sticking to a plan.

A lot of ammo in the entire interview IMO. I think clearly it is the organization making the decisions. MG alluded several times to his plan and needing to get back to that. Maybe a statement to the organization.

Also said he is not sure if he will be back and expects to be evaluated like everyone else. But clearly if he is back he wants to get back to playing the game he likes and having the personel, both on and off the ice, to play that style.

When asked if he felt that the coaching system was at fault he stated that when the entire team under performs it is clearly more than one thing but they would get to what the problems are, which he described as running deep, and that they would all be dealt with. No ringing endorsement for the coaching staff but not placing the entire blame in one area.

There is a lot of reading between the lines here. Almost sounded like he was laying the foundation for his own year end interview with ownership. My way or I'm not playing anymore.

Those are some pretty bold statements by MG, usually he's pretty cliché.

Telling the owners to eff off and let him do his job me thinks.

[vic]

all your talk about Kelser

He ain't good enough to be a 1st line centre in this league.

He's had ample opportunity this year to step up and be the #1 guy as Henrik has been out with injuries. As a 29 year old, Henrik was ripping up the league. Put anyone on his line, and he made them look like an all star. He helped turn Alex Burrows into a 35 goal scorer.

[Meds]

all your talk about Kelser

He ain't good enough to be a 1st line centre in this league.

He's had ample opportunity this year to step up and be the #1 guy as Henrik has been out with injuries. As a 29 year old, Henrik was ripping up the league. Put anyone on his line, and he made them look like an all star. He helped turn Alex Burrows into a 35 goal scorer.

You're shortsighted if you think that Vic. There are more than a couple first line centers in this league who would be below Kesler on a depth chart. He put up 74 points playing a shutdown role in 2010-11.....with fringe second line talent for linemates. He contributed on the PP and is a great PK center. Kesler is a poor man's Steven Stamkos.....he needs a setup man because he's not a playmaker himself. He's a shoot first, finish, one-timer, drive the net, kind of center. He has NEVER has a playmaking winger skating with him, and when he got moved to the wing and had Hank and Danny as setup men he started scoring. Look at the goal he scored against the Rags. Dank finally made a nice pass into the middle and Kes finished it.

Kes may not be a top 10 first line center in the NHL.....maybe he's top 20. But he has the skill to be a top center with the right players. There are maybe 5 centers in the league who are still top guys regardless of who they play with.

[The Brown Knight]

all your talk about Kelser

He ain't good enough to be a 1st line centre in this league.

He's had ample opportunity this year to step up and be the #1 guy as Henrik has been out with injuries. As a 29 year old, Henrik was ripping up the league. Put anyone on his line, and he made them look like an all star. He helped turn Alex Burrows into a 35 goal scorer.

Surprisingly, I actually completely agree with you.

However - what I am saying (contemplating out loud) is that perhaps the Canucks should make a huge trade for a Superstar player, and that said Superstar Player and Ryan Kesler can anchor the new first line (while in effect, moving the twins to what I perceive to be an ideal 2nd line role for the twins).

Is Kesler good enough to anchor a first line all by himself playing with non-superstar linemates? No I don't think so. In that regard, I agree with you. Kesler is NOT what Henrik was when Henrik was at 29.

However - I think if the Canucks bring in another superstar player, then said Superstar player playing alongside Ryan Kesler would be a very dangerous first line............and by default, the twins would be pushed down to the 2nd line and would become a very dangerous 2nd line matching up against weaker opponents.

The opportunity cost of trying to bring in said superstar player, is that it would likely cost us both Horvat and Shinkaruk at minimum. Obviously - there are huge risks in making such a move, but if Gillis really is committed to this core............and if Gillis wants to go back to the style of play that we had between 2008-2012, then Kesler needs a playmate.

[Strangelove]

The only thing I see that isn't consistent with Tort's style and GMMG is is the dump and chase. With an aggressive forecheck, that needn't be incompatible with puck possession but for the most part, that forecheck was missing?

Yeah the forecheck seemed to disappear as the season wore on.

But all that collapsing in the dee zone is not compatible at all with MG's transition game.

I hope we have the horses to return to MG's original vision - the one he made AV originally conform to.

Because that is obviously what he's talking about.

Pretty obvious he's going to have that same talk with Torts that he had with AV way back when.

Although AV had the team play more of a defensive game last season (due to injuries?).

Yeah... I don't think the team's problems are systematic per se.

I think this team's problems have more to do with a lack of scoring depth up front.

A problem that has been exasperated by injuries, lack of help on the farm, and lack of room to maneuver

(last 2 seasons).

Hopefully with some of the kids coming up next year, Kassian + Jensen taking a step, and extra cap space...

yeah, I'm thinking some of those problems will be rectified as soon as next season... but then you know me.

I think Gillis and Torts will remain, but the assistants might be be canned.

And it's a safe bet we'll see that puck-possession transition game return.

[Strangelove]

In that interview Gillis sounds like a man who fully expects to be the boss of this team next season. Has he gotten a vote of confidence or is he just beginning to build his case?

His statement that he's not sure if he'll be around was lawyer speak deflection at its best. Writers are calling it candid, but really he just turned the conversation around into the conversation that he wanted to have. He didn't want to talk about Torts' future, he wanted to talk about his plan, his vision.

YUP!

[Strangelove]

The Great Strangelove scoffed at the MANY who believed that the "New NHL" had arrived.

Too bad one of the believers was Gillis. He really lost a year or two believing that Bettman Bullshit.

Yeah no, the NHL was never going to do that kind of a major overhaul in such a short time frame there...

Mike 'Moving Goal Posts' Gillis.

[Strangelove]

Well it is funny to note how the Canucks have fared SINCE moving towards a bigger-meaner mentality. How's that worked out in the playoffs?

When did your Vancouver Canucks become bigger and meaner??

The Hodgson for Kassian trade was one step in that direction...

And hopefully some of the kids will provide some of that going forward.

But there has been no immediate bigger-meaner mentality since the 2011 playoffs

... so not sure what you're saying.

I do know that yours truly has been screaming for a bigger-meaner mentality for about a decade.

Hell, I can remember Marcus Naslund and Dave Nonis acknowledging that need.

Generally, your Vancouver Canucks have been a bunch of pussies for a long fucking time.

I've seen Gillis try to address that lack of size+grit since he got here...

Sundin, Samuelsson, Bernier, Booth, Torres, Malhotra...

Short-term fixes to... no help at all.

No yeah, you need a certain degree of ASSHOLISHNESS to win your Stanley Cup.

Twas ever thus.

[Meds]

Well it is funny to note how the Canucks have fared SINCE moving towards a bigger-meaner mentality. How's that worked out in the playoffs?

When did your Vancouver Canucks become bigger and meaner??

The Hodgson for Kassian trade was one step in that direction...

And hopefully some of the kids will provide some of that going forward.

But there has been no immediate bigger-meaner mentality since the 2011 playoffs

... so not sure what you're saying.

I do know that yours truly has been screaming for a bigger-meaner mentality for about a decade.

Hell, I can remember Marcus Naslund and Dave Nonis acknowledging that need.

Generally, your Vancouver Canucks have been a bunch of pussies for a long fucking time.

Yeah.....pretty much since they drafted the Sedins.

[SKYO]

Ya gotta quit trolling with the endless Sedin bashing Mëds.

[herb]

The only thing I see that isn't consistent with Tort's style and GMMG is is the dump and chase. With an aggressive forecheck, that needn't be incompatible with puck possession but for the most part, that forecheck was missing?

Yes! This has been a surprise with Torts. For all the talk that has gone on about being aggressive and hard to play against, this team has been very passive. At it's best under AV the Canucks were a fast, hard forechecking team (remember Torres, Lapierre, Higgins, Kesler, Hansen and Burrows rocketing in on the forecheck making the defensemen's lives miserable?) but we haven't really seen any of that this season.

The one change I still see is Sullivan going.

Yup.

[mathonwy]

Ya gotta quit trolling with the endless Sedin bashing Mëds.

+1 (I'm guilty of the occasional Sedin bashing I admit it)

Sort of like RD and his boi Gillis. We already know where RD stands on Mike Gillis. We just don't need to be reminded of it every 3rd or 4th post.

Pretty please?