What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

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I Chose For MY Canucks...

Cheer annoyingly and blissfully ignorant they will not only make the playoffs but win Lord Stanley's Holly Grail
5
14%
Be a realist and cheer for them to lose and get the best draft pick they can. Let's get the rebuild on!
4
11%
Pray to God that he will use his eternal energy (while others die) to help them squeak into the post-season
2
6%
Get more Sestito's on the team because we need more toughness, not young stud low drafted scoring machines
1
3%
Resigning Alex Burrows and David Booth is priority above all else
1
3%
Cheer for the Leafs to fail and not make the playoffs thereby making us look like winners for trying harder
5
14%
Let Hockey Gods sort it out, there's beer to be sacrificed!-Who gives a shit, it's Bettman's world, we just live in it
5
14%
Post Tank it Torts™ as much as possible to annoy people and make them lose it
2
6%
Hope they barely make the playoffs so we can have a crap draft pick and get blown out in 1st round
2
6%
Get through the season without any injuries
8
23%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:57 am

ukcanuck wrote:You can colour a 4-0 score anyway you like, they lost. That's called losing. It's what losers do in the biggest game of their lives. Lose.


Losing is a part of life unfortunately, but again..........Game 7.....Cup Finals. Unbelievably great season leading up to that point.

Make small changes. Get grittier, get bigger, but don't completely change your system.

I followed the Red Wings from 1994-2006 as my 2nd favorite team. In 1995, they got absolutely shit canned by the Devils in a Cup sweep. It was one of the worst moments in both my life and the Wings lives.

They made small changes.

In 1996 - they had one of the greatest regular seasons in NHL history, and were then unceremoniously dumped by the Avs in the Conference Finals that year.

The Wings went back to the drawing board, and made small changes. They kept their system and core values almost the exact same, but decided to get a little grittier even if it meant sacrificing a little skill.

In 1997 - they got revenge on the Avs, and then smoked the Flyers in a 4-0 sweep in the finals.

Heaven forbid - if the Red Wings decided to become a trap team like the Devils after their 1995 humiliation.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby herb » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:01 am

Gillis had what reads to be a pretty good interview this morning.

The running of this team is my responsibility and I feel that the last few seasons we have been chasing goal posts that have been moving and got away from our core principles of how I want this team to play and how we want to perform and the tempo we want to play with.

People want someone to blame but the reality is that as an organization we have deviated from things that have been successful and I know will be successful. We will get back to those levels and that style of play that we started six years ago and we have the personnel to do it.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=448194

Getting back to that old style of play, and increasing the team's tempo sound like a good start to me. :drink:
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Topper » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:09 am

herb wrote:Gillis had what reads to be a pretty good interview this morning.

The running of this team is my responsibility and I feel that the last few seasons we have been chasing goal posts that have been moving and got away from our core principles of how I want this team to play and how we want to perform and the tempo we want to play with.

People want someone to blame but the reality is that as an organization we have deviated from things that have been successful and I know will be successful. We will get back to those levels and that style of play that we started six years ago and we have the personnel to do it.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=448194

Getting back to that old style of play, and increasing the team's tempo sound like a good start to me. :drink:

Audio

He said what you alluded to in a previous post.

The style of play changed to many times this season and they got away from the style he wants to play, up tempo, aggressive, puck procession.

Mentioned they were chasing moving goal posts during the season and said that they will return to the style he wants and if people under him do not agree, they will be moved. Players? Coaches?

Also mentioned he's not sure he'll be back - knows the season was not up to expectations and all personnel are reviewed after the season. Himself included. My immediate thought when he said this was Burke's "lame duck" comment.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Meds » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:15 am

The Brown Knight wrote:Agreed with dbr in that I'm not really interested in rehashing 2011 all over again, and it sucks that I was dragged back into this conversation.

The point is this though. Yeah, we lost..........but it was in a 7 game series in the finals. We also had a significant number of injuries, and we also had an incredible regular season........and an incredible regular season the year after that.

Based on that alone, I don't think it was necessary to completely revamp our system and completely attempt to change our identity.

I think the Canucks would have been best served by keeping their identity of being a skilled puck possession team, while adding a few gritty pieces, and getting some kids into the line-up. Small tweaks. Small changes. Period.


Due to the incredibly one-dimensional approach that the Sedins bring to offense, there is a need to revamp the system.....at least through the other 3 lines. The twins have created next to nothing against the Bruins, Kings, and Sharks, since 2011. So long as defenders don't get caught staring at their passing plays and just play the body against the wall or hang back and take away passing lanes into the middle while the wingers worry about staying on the point men.....the Canucks are screwed at that point.

The WCE, under Crawford, cycled the puck a lot too, that overload style of offense was signature Crow. But the dynamic of that line was much different. You had Bertuzzi who was an immovable force in front of the net with deft hands and shrewd playmaking skills. Morrison was just a speedy energizer bunny who knew exactly where to be to support the Dynamic Duo. Naslund had speed, hands, and a lethal shot. All 3 of them could cycle. It meant that they ALWAYS had an option on offense. If the defenders wanted to shutdown the cycle game then Bertuzzi went to the front of the net and created havoc and Naslund and Mo fed the point, or put the puck to the net himself, if the defenders hung back to take away the entry passes, then Naslund took a step off of the half-boards and made the goaltender look like swiss cheese (usually top shelf over the short-side shoulder :P ). If the defense watched the passing then inevitably the puck ended up on someone's stick in the slot for a scoring chance. And all 3 of those guys could create something off of the rush.

The Sedins can't do that. Sorry. They have great hands, are great passers, have fairly accurate shots.....albeit weak ones, are good at little redirects and fancy plays for highlight reel finishes, and can protect the puck well. But that's it. They aren't quick, they aren't big bodies, they don't drive the net.....etc.

Based on that they are relatively easy to shutdown when an opponent can structure their entire defensive gameplan against them and that style. So let them do that. Let the Sedins do their thing and mix up the plan of attack for the other 3 lines. Invariably you will find that opponents who have to worry about who is out there and how to play against them will screw up and get burnt a couple of times per game. Add in some line juggling here and there and you have exactly what AV had from 2010-2012.....
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:21 am

The Brown Knight wrote:Agreed with dbr in that I'm not really interested in rehashing 2011 all over again, and it sucks that I was dragged back into this conversation.

The point is this though. Yeah, we lost..........but it was in a 7 game series in the finals. We also had a significant number of injuries, and we also had an incredible regular season........and an incredible regular season the year after that.

Based on that alone, I don't think it was necessary to completely revamp our system and completely attempt to change our identity.

I think the Canucks would have been best served by keeping their identity of being a skilled puck possession team, while adding a few gritty pieces, and getting some kids into the line-up. Small tweaks. Small changes. Period.



The Brown Knight wrote:
C'mon Blob,

Are you freakin' kidding me!?!??!

That 2010-2011 Canucks team was one of the greatest teams ever assembled in NHL history. Period. They dominated every single statistical category in the league that year.........and came within a game of winning the Cup Finals. And if we're being perfectly honestly, probably would have if 6 of their Top 9 forwards and 4 of their Top 6 defensemen weren't playing with massive injuries.

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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby herb » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:22 am

Topper wrote:Audio

He said what you alluded to in a previous post.

The style of play changed to many times this season and they got away from the style he wants to play, up tempo, aggressive, puck procession.

Mentioned they were chasing moving goal posts during the season and said that they will return to the style he wants and if people under him do not agree, they will be moved. Players? Coaches?

Also mentioned he's not sure he'll be back - knows the season was not up to expectations and all personnel are reviewed after the season. Himself included. My immediate thought when he said this was Burke's "lame duck" comment.


Thanks Top.

Well this is the best news we've had all year. The hardest thing to do, especially when you're high profile and have a big ego, is admit you have made mistakes. Getting back to being a fast, up-beat team that moves the puck quickly would be a breath of fresh air.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Meds » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:36 am

herb wrote:
Topper wrote:Audio

He said what you alluded to in a previous post.

The style of play changed to many times this season and they got away from the style he wants to play, up tempo, aggressive, puck procession.

Mentioned they were chasing moving goal posts during the season and said that they will return to the style he wants and if people under him do not agree, they will be moved. Players? Coaches?

Also mentioned he's not sure he'll be back - knows the season was not up to expectations and all personnel are reviewed after the season. Himself included. My immediate thought when he said this was Burke's "lame duck" comment.


Thanks Top.

Well this is the best news we've had all year. The hardest thing to do, especially when you're high profile and have a big ego, is admit you have made mistakes. Getting back to being a fast, up-beat team that moves the puck quickly would be a breath of fresh air.


Yeah, not sure what he meant when he said...

Gillis wrote:He's [Lack] second in the league in shutouts with half the games played."
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Topper » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:52 am

herb wrote:Well this is the best news we've had all year. The hardest thing to do, especially when you're high profile and have a big ego, is admit you have made mistakes. Getting back to being a fast, up-beat team that moves the puck quickly would be a breath of fresh air.

I think the big thing is they were playing a reactionary style as opposed to imposing their style on the game.

What were they reacting to? Injuries, players not on board with Torts take on things, opponents style......??????

Sounds like there needs to be some give and take on player personnel and coaching styles. I noted before that this is Tort's first stint out west and their are several external factors he has not had to deal with before. No doubt he has learned a lot.

The only thing I see that isn't consistent with Tort's style and GMMG is is the dump and chase. With an aggressive forecheck, that needn't be incompatible with puck possession but for the most part, that forecheck was missing?

The one change I still see is Sullivan going.
Last edited by Topper on Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:55 am

Topper wrote:
herb wrote:Gillis had what reads to be a pretty good interview this morning.

The running of this team is my responsibility and I feel that the last few seasons we have been chasing goal posts that have been moving and got away from our core principles of how I want this team to play and how we want to perform and the tempo we want to play with.

People want someone to blame but the reality is that as an organization we have deviated from things that have been successful and I know will be successful. We will get back to those levels and that style of play that we started six years ago and we have the personnel to do it.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=448194

Getting back to that old style of play, and increasing the team's tempo sound like a good start to me. :drink:

Audio

He said what you alluded to in a previous post.

The style of play changed to many times this season and they got away from the style he wants to play, up tempo, aggressive, puck procession.

Mentioned they were chasing moving goal posts during the season and said that they will return to the style he wants and if people under him do not agree, they will be moved. Players? Coaches?

Also mentioned he's not sure he'll be back - knows the season was not up to expectations and all personnel are reviewed after the season. Himself included. My immediate thought when he said this was Burke's "lame duck" comment.


seems like he said:

"The running of this team is my responsibility and I feel that the last few seasons we have been chasing goal posts that have been moving and got away from our core principles of how I want this team to play and how we want to perform and the tempo we want to play with.


which sounds like an allusion to the idea that the league abandoned their war on obstruction and trapping that allowed teams like the Canucks to thrive and left his team out in the cold right in the middle of their "window"

"If given the resources and the players are committed to it, any coach can coach the team that he has," explained Gillis. "But having said that, our problems are far reaching and will be addressed.


This sounds like what Herb was alluding to in that the team had to improvise all season long due to injuries and other problems.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby herb » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:59 am

I took the goal posts comment to mean internally the team didn't know what it wanted it's identity to mean. To me that certainly reflects what we have seen on the ice this season. This team doesn't know what it is doing. A lack of vision, if you will. Is this a puck possession team with an aggressive forecheck or a passive dump and chase team?
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby TDA Rum » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:04 pm

I believe what he meant by the moving goal posts was in how the game is played & officiated as well as the CBA changing....
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:08 pm

herb wrote:I took the goal posts comment to mean internally the team didn't know what it wanted it's identity to mean. To me that certainly reflects what we have seen on the ice this season. This team doesn't know what it is doing. A lack of vision, if you will. Is this a puck possession team with an aggressive forecheck or a passive dump and chase team?

The simple answer to that in my opinion is puck possession aggressive forecheck until injuries deplete the line up and then a passive dump and chase team when playing with half an AHL squad.

Throw in Tort's hallway rage and the Luongo debacle and there is plenty of distraction from their identity to go around.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:22 pm

Meds wrote:[

Due to the incredibly one-dimensional approach that the Sedins bring to offense, there is a need to revamp the system.....at least through the other 3 lines. The twins have created next to nothing against the Bruins, Kings, and Sharks, since 2011. So long as defenders don't get caught staring at their passing plays and just play the body against the wall or hang back and take away passing lanes into the middle while the wingers worry about staying on the point men.....the Canucks are screwed at that point.


Good post Meds and you actually do make a lot of sense.

I agree with you about the twins and their predictability.

Having said that - I believe that if the twins are at full health, they would be excellent 2nd line players........and would be able to light up your 3rd/4th defensive pairings and opposing 2nd lines, etc. They might be finished as far as being first line superstars go (for the reasons you stated), but I can still see them being dangerous 2nd liners.

Obviously - having a 14 million+ second line isn't ideal..............BUT..........if Gillis is committed to this current core despite the atrocities of the last two seasons, then I think he'll need to move the twins to the 2nd line while creating a new first line with Ryan Kesler (while making a major trade of sorts to bring in a major piece that can play alongside Kesler on this new first line).

Based on Topper's quotes of Gillis from above, I get a sense that Gillis is still committed to this core..........but wants to go back to our old successful fast tempo puck possession style of play. Perhaps we won't see a rebuild/Kesler trade after all.

Perhaps this will be a 1996/1997 situation part deux where the Canucks miss the playoffs for the first time in awhile, but feel that the 'core' is only one major player away from being a contender...........and so they make a "Mark Messier" type move. Obviously - the experiment back then was a disaster, but would it be a disaster this time around?

:Go back to old fast-tempo style:

*Buy-out Booth*

???-Kesler-Kassian
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Matthias-Jensen
Gaunce-Richardson-Sestito

Hamhuis-Garrison
Tanev-Bieksa
Edler-Stanton

Lack
Markstrom

Those line combo's are probably quite inaccurate (I haven't watched many games since January), but here's the main-point I'm trying to make:

-If the Canucks go back to their old style of play, and IF the Canucks make a major trade of sorts (i.e. going for it now even if it means moving key prospects/picks) and bring in a superstar player to play with Kesler..............which moves the twins to the 2nd line.............perhaps this team would be an elite team again?
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:33 pm

The Sedins are still top-line players. They might not be perennial all-stars anymore, but if this team went back to its possession/set up roots they would be back in the 70-80 point range fairly quickly IMO. If Burrows had showed up a couple months earlier, you could probably tack on 10 points each to their CURRENT levels. Getting the PP back on track would certainly help too.

We continue to have the same problem every year: there is nothing coming after them to provide run support, or make life tough on opposing coaches wrt line combos. This team needs a second line desperately. If Gillis can't get someone to play alongside Kesler, he should be looking to move Kesler for a couple pieces that could be a second line in a year or two.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:08 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:The Sedins are still top-line players. They might not be perennial all-stars anymore, but if this team went back to its possession/set up roots they would be back in the 70-80 point range fairly quickly IMO. If Burrows had showed up a couple months earlier, you could probably tack on 10 points each to their CURRENT levels. Getting the PP back on track would certainly help too.

We continue to have the same problem every year: there is nothing coming after them to provide run support, or make life tough on opposing coaches wrt line combos. This team needs a second line desperately. If Gillis can't get someone to play alongside Kesler, he should be looking to move Kesler for a couple pieces that could be a second line in a year or two.


Good post.

I especially agree with your last sentence regarding Kesler (i.e. if you can't get someone to play alongside Kesler, then move the guy for a couple key future pieces).

I agree that the Sedins' can still be good first line players, but can you imagine the twins on a second line being GREAT 2nd line players? (with Kesler + new superstar player anchoring your new first line).

Why couldn't a team like THAT be right back in the thick of things at their 2010-2012 level?

Buyout of Booth + freed up cap space from Luongo deal should give us enough cap room to bring in a player like that would it not?

Obviously - making such a move to get *top line superstar player* would likely cost us both Horvat and Shinkaruk.......and we certainly would risk ending up like Toronto and Calgary if the plan failed, but.........I don't know.

If you took this current line-up and added a guy like Eric Staal per se, would this team be elite?

I'm obviously just shooting the shit here, but what if Gillis actually did "go for it" and brought in a top line superstar to play with Kesler? (which in effect, put the twins and Burrows as our 2nd unit).
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