What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

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I Chose For MY Canucks...

Cheer annoyingly and blissfully ignorant they will not only make the playoffs but win Lord Stanley's Holly Grail
5
14%
Be a realist and cheer for them to lose and get the best draft pick they can. Let's get the rebuild on!
4
11%
Pray to God that he will use his eternal energy (while others die) to help them squeak into the post-season
2
6%
Get more Sestito's on the team because we need more toughness, not young stud low drafted scoring machines
1
3%
Resigning Alex Burrows and David Booth is priority above all else
1
3%
Cheer for the Leafs to fail and not make the playoffs thereby making us look like winners for trying harder
5
14%
Let Hockey Gods sort it out, there's beer to be sacrificed!-Who gives a shit, it's Bettman's world, we just live in it
5
14%
Post Tank it Torts™ as much as possible to annoy people and make them lose it
2
6%
Hope they barely make the playoffs so we can have a crap draft pick and get blown out in 1st round
2
6%
Get through the season without any injuries
8
23%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:07 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:LMAO at the people still pencilling Kesler in for next season.

And LMAO at anyone lamenting over 2008-2011. That Canucks team while good would be middle of the pack in the Western Playoff race these days.


C'mon Blob,

Are you freakin' kidding me!?!??!

That 2010-2011 Canucks team was one of the greatest teams ever assembled in NHL history. Period. They dominated every single statistical category in the league that year.........and came within a game of winning the Cup Finals. And if we're being perfectly honestly, probably would have if 6 of their Top 9 forwards and 4 of their Top 6 defensemen weren't playing with massive injuries.

Even that 2011-2012 team was pretty damned good, but simply lost to a Kings team that caught absolute fire (and won the cup).

I agree with you that St. Louis/California teams weren't anywhere near as good as they are now, but what does that have to do with anything? I mean by that logic - why don't we discredit the 80's Oilers, 90's Wings, and 90's Avs, and also say something retarded like, "Oh - those guys wouldn't have won cups and would've have been middle of the pack had they played in this current era of St. Louis/California).

Having said that - I agree with you that the Canucks don't have to be "either" "or". They can easily try and mold themselves to be a combination of size and speed.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby SKYO » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:11 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:LMAO at the people still pencilling Kesler in for next season.

And LMAO at anyone lamenting over 2008-2011. That Canucks team while good would be middle of the pack in the Western Playoff race these days.


C'mon Blob,

Are you freakin' kidding me!?!??!

That 2010-2011 Canucks team was one of the greatest teams ever assembled in NHL history. Period.


haha that team was good but camman tbk.

Imagine that 2011 squad with the current Kassian, Sestito and Matthias, we'd probably have won the cup
...anyways.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:21 pm

SKYO wrote:[

haha that team was good but camman tbk.



The statistics from that year back up my comments. Check them for yourself. We dominated every single statistical category that year. The only other team in NHL history to do that was one of the Montreal Canadien teams from the 1970's (if I recall correctly).

That 2011 Canucks team didn't need Kassian, Matthias, Sestito, etc.

All we needed was a healthy line-up. Stanley Cup Playoffs are often times a crap shoot. More times than not, it is simply the healthiest team and the hottest team at the time that ends up winning it all.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:09 am

The Brown Knight wrote:
SKYO wrote:[

haha that team was good but camman tbk.



The statistics from that year back up my comments. Check them for yourself. We dominated every single statistical category that year. The only other team in NHL history to do that was one of the Montreal Canadien teams from the 1970's (if I recall correctly).

That 2011 Canucks team didn't need Kassian, Matthias, Sestito, etc.

All we needed was a healthy line-up. Stanley Cup Playoffs are often times a crap shoot. More times than not, it is simply the healthiest team and the hottest team at the time that ends up winning it all.

This just in:
Brown Man Wears Rose Coloured Glasses.

That Montreal team :
76-77 Habs were the greatest team of all time, but I’ll try and reinforce it here Their 60-8-12 record is the best in NHL history. Their 33-1-6 home record is the best in NHL history. Their +2.7 goal differential was the biggest goal differential in NHL history. Their + 130 goal differential at home (+3.25 a game) is the greatest in NHL history. They had 9 Hall of Famers without including Coach Scotty Bowman. They were #1 in goals for, #1 in goals against #2 in PP%, #1 in PK%, and #1 in Even Strength Goals For/Against.
http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.com/t ... ll-time-1/


Love my Canucks and hate the habs slightly less than the leafs but:
Wtf not even close.. Where are the 9...9... Nine, 10 -1 = 9 future hall of game players???

not to mention future coaches and managers to come from that squad...

In fact the 2010/11 Canuck doesn't make the top 15 teams on that list and arguably shouldn't be on any greatest all time list whatsoever

They fucking lost the Stanley cup because they were not fucking good enough

It wasn't injuries, it wasn't officiating, it wasn't luck, they played too many games they didn't need to play because They couldn't win when it counted most, and had nothing left by the second period of game 6...end of story...

And as for this bullshit that the rot has only set in this year...

The writing was on the wall when that 2011 Stanley cup final team finally won game 8 in Boston and got their moral victory and promptly sucked from that point on....Nothing but a whimper against the Kings and even less against the sharks last year.

This team has had too many soft players and not enough heart from top to bottom
The style of play they excelled at doesn't stand up in the playoffs without guts

To coins phrase, too many milk drinkers, not enough whiskey drinkers.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:05 am

ukcanuck wrote:This just in:
Brown Man Wears Rose Coloured Glasses.

Wtf not even close.. Where are the 9...9... Nine, 10 -1 = 9 future hall of game players???

not to mention future coaches and managers to come from that squad...

In fact the 2010/11 Canuck doesn't make the top 15 teams on that list and arguably shouldn't be on any greatest all time list whatsoever.


During the 70's, parity was a lot less than it is in the modern era, but that's besides the point. All I'm saying is this: that 2011 Canucks team had 117 points, and ranked #1 in every single statistical category that year. Period. To downplay the significance of just how good that 2011 team is just flat out ignorant. You're right that the 2011 Canucks team aren't Top 15 in the all-time list, but again..........name any other team in the modern era that dominated every single category in a given year.

A large part of your argument is that the Canucks were a perimeter team that whined and dived their way to getting an inordinate number of power play goals............and yet they had the #1 PK that year. Go figure.

They fucking lost the Stanley cup because they were not fucking good enough

It wasn't injuries, it wasn't officiating, it wasn't luck, they played too many games they didn't need to play because They couldn't win when it counted most, and had nothing left by the second period of game 6...end of story...


Again - that's just wrong........and flat out disrespectful. THEY WON 15 GAMES IN THE POST-SEASON THAT YEAR!
Yes, they were ultimately not good enough.......but they lost by one friggin' game!

And you are wrong - by downplaying the significance of injuries to Kesler, Raymond, almost all of our defensemen, etc., you are being very disrespectful. You are extremely ignorant, or are flat out trolling here.

And as for this bullshit that the rot has only set in this year...

]The writing was on the wall when that 2011 Stanley cup final team finally won game 8 in Boston and got their moral victory and promptly sucked from that point on....Nothing but a whimper against the Kings and even less against the sharks last year.



The Canucks still won a mass majority of their games in 2012 after the Boston game even if their play was lackluster at times. Yes - a Presidents' Trophy doesn't mean a whole lot, but the fact of the matter is that they garnered 112 points and won the trophy for a 2nd straight time. And no - they didn't just stockpile points against their weak division. Their record against non-NW teams at the time was almost as impressive.

In the playoffs that year, they simply ran into a Cup Winning Kings team that was sizzling.
Even though we didn't have Daniel for the first 3 games, the Kings flat out beat us fair and square that year.......and absolutely destroyed the competition that year.

Bottom line? There is no evidence to suggest that the Canucks tanked directly after the "Boston victory" in 2012.

I would argue that our loss to the Kings in 2012 + the Luongo drama, was what lead to the players losing faith and subsequently, contributed to the rapid downfall.

We've been mediocre ever since.
This team has had too many soft players and not enough heart from top to bottom
The style of play they excelled at doesn't stand up in the playoffs without guts.


You can't say that about a team that came within ONE game of winning a cup! Ridiculous.....

To coins phrase, too many milk drinkers, not enough whiskey drinkers.


In 1998, the Canucks had a shitload of whisky drinkers in Donald Brashear, Bert Robertson, Larry Courvelle, Enricco Cicconne, etc., etc. They were probably tougher than the Boston Bruins or today and probably would have 'held their ground' in a street fight against the Broadstreet Bullies! (Hilariously enough).

Do you know what the record of the Canucks were between 1998-1999?

Best to have a good combination of whiskey drinkers and milk drinkers.
Last edited by The Brown Knight on Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:11 am

Well it is funny to note how the Canucks have fared SINCE moving towards a bigger-meaner mentality. How's that worked out in the playoffs? Now, we've doubled down on that style by bringing in a coach to emphasize size, grit, and muscle over talent and skill, and we're clawing our way towards a top-5 pick. This roster is not built for a street fight, and if we keep thinking it's capable of playing that style, we'll keep getting shit-canned come playoff time (if we ever see it playing this style with these players).

This is not the style this team should be built towards. We don't have the size/talent combination of LA or San Jose or Anaheim, and adding fourth line guys like Sestito and third-line guys like Kassian makes us feel okay about our toughness, but our top-6 is nowhere near physical enough to play that style. The Sedins are good at KEEPING the puck in the corner, not knocking a d-man off it and getting it back. They want the puck on their stick at all times, not a chip and chase. They like a tic-tac-toe high-percentage pay, not a throw it on net and jam at the rebound with a mongoloid stapled to your spine.

It's like people think the only option for the post-AV era was to turn this team into the Boston Bruins or LA Kings. The Blackhawks, who beat the Big Bad Bruins last year, are not a big team. They currently boast guys up front like Kane (181 pounds), Shaw (180), Kruger (181), Sharp (199) and newcomer Teraveinin (169). Maybe our biggest problem was never toughness, just the inability to score enough goals?

Basically: this team doesn't have an identity anymore, and if people think we can turn this roster a complete 180 from a skill game to a physical forecheck game they are retarded. That process will take a few years, and I don't think the Sedins are the type of players to lead that change. I would much rather see the Canucks get bigger while maintaining some kind of offensive-oriented, puck possession game. Replacing Raymond with Kassian type moves, while keeping the offensive orientation of this team, is something we should be looking at. Asking the Sedins to play like Kesler is fucking nuts.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Meds » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:54 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:Well it is funny to note how the Canucks have fared SINCE moving towards a bigger-meaner mentality. How's that worked out in the playoffs? Now, we've doubled down on that style by bringing in a coach to emphasize size, grit, and muscle over talent and skill, and we're clawing our way towards a top-5 pick. This roster is not built for a street fight, and if we keep thinking it's capable of playing that style, we'll keep getting shit-canned come playoff time (if we ever see it playing this style with these players).

This is not the style this team should be built towards. We don't have the size/talent combination of LA or San Jose or Anaheim, and adding fourth line guys like Sestito and third-line guys like Kassian makes us feel okay about our toughness, but our top-6 is nowhere near physical enough to play that style. The Sedins are good at KEEPING the puck in the corner, not knocking a d-man off it and getting it back. They want the puck on their stick at all times, not a chip and chase. They like a tic-tac-toe high-percentage pay, not a throw it on net and jam at the rebound with a mongoloid stapled to your spine.

It's like people think the only option for the post-AV era was to turn this team into the Boston Bruins or LA Kings. The Blackhawks, who beat the Big Bad Bruins last year, are not a big team. They currently boast guys up front like Kane (181 pounds), Shaw (180), Kruger (181), Sharp (199) and newcomer Teraveinin (169). Maybe our biggest problem was never toughness, just the inability to score enough goals?

Basically: this team doesn't have an identity anymore, and if people think we can turn this roster a complete 180 from a skill game to a physical forecheck game they are retarded. That process will take a few years, and I don't think the Sedins are the type of players to lead that change. I would much rather see the Canucks get bigger while maintaining some kind of offensive-oriented, puck possession game. Replacing Raymond with Kassian type moves, while keeping the offensive orientation of this team, is something we should be looking at. Asking the Sedins to play like Kesler is fucking nuts.


The Canucks problem, compared to teams like the Blackhawks, is that they don't have enough talent that is willing to, or capable of, going to the slot from the perimeter. So long as a team maintains their structure on defense they can keep the Canucks to the outside passing the puck around the boards. The other difference is the net presence. Regardless of size, when a shot goes to the net from the point or side boards, there will be at least 2 attacking players for the top teams, the shooter will often follow his shot into the slot. The Canucks don't do this. They have one man at the net, often battling against 4 defenders, the point men are still up high, and the other forwards are slow coming off of the wall.

This is partly due to the fact that they are a team that has too few players on the same page and nobody other than Kesler, Bieksa, and Booth, are players who you can count on to take a shot when they have one. Edler hesitates at the point. Garrison has started doing the same. Both Sedins are pass first, Henrik almost never shoots. Hansen and Higgins often don't get good shots from decent angles. Kassian is a pass first guy. Tanev and Hamhuis don't posses great shots. Everyone is waiting for the cycle game to continue because that has been the gameplan since the lockout of 2004-05. That gameplan has been figured out and the team has gone into complete disarray offensively.

There are a multitude of problems with this group right now. There are definitely some very good pieces here right now, but not enough depth. Gillis needs to round out the bottom-6 and add one player to the top-6. Then Torts will have no excuse for riding his top 9 skaters (forwards and defense) the way he has.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby herb » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:07 am

To me this team is playing too slow now. I'm not talking about skating slow, I mean the pace the Canucks play at is like they think and deliberate about every play way too much.

When I think back to our heyday I remember how fast and aggressive that team was. Edler didn't hesitate to jump up into the slot and wire a shot. Henrik and Daniel would pass the puck four or five times before the defense knew what was going on. How many bang-bang goals have we seen this season? Not many.

A big part of that is coaching, but we also have a lack of skill and our confidence is shot. The injuries have been devastating because we have had maybe 2 or 3 players in Utica that could play any NHL minutes, never mind fill in for Henrik and Daniel.

Torts is a good coach. If he is back next year, I expect he will evolve in a big way. He needs to cater to his players and the team he has rather than force a round peg into a square hole. Hopefully we can make some decent trades and sign a UFA or two that make this roster a bit deeper and more dynamic. With the youth that will be turning pro next season our organizational depth should be improving a great deal. An enthusiastic kid or two along with the trade of a couple of old guard guys for younger players might help rebuild the fragile psyche of this team.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:10 am

Great posts by Isle Knuck, Meds, and herb.

I completely agree with all 3 posts.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:12 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:Well it is funny to note how the Canucks have fared SINCE moving towards a bigger-meaner mentality. How's that worked out in the playoffs? Now, we've doubled down on that style by bringing in a coach to emphasize size, grit, and muscle over talent and skill, and we're clawing our way towards a top-5 pick. This roster is not built for a street fight, and if we keep thinking it's capable of playing that style, we'll keep getting shit-canned come playoff time (if we ever see it playing this style with these players).


"Since," that's the key point isn't it? you speak like there was a switch in style and play and its failed. Don't worry though you aren't alone, the howling morons in the vancouver media feel as you do. But the truth is that this roster is in transition they are switching to the style of play that wins championships, the kind that has always won championships. If you need a hint, its NOT the kind that the Canucks have been playing or we would have been celebrating a cup by now.

"How's that worked out in the playoffs?" you should probably ask Dave Bolland 6 ft 181 lbs, Jeff Carter 6 ft 4 in 210 lbs, or Patrice Bergeron 6 ft 2 in 194 lbs, the last three players to score the goal that won their team the Stanley cup... all whiskey drinkers.

"emphasize size, grit, and muscle over talent and skill,"
thats just stupid, why would anyone want a team of goons that cant play? you sound like Coco Canuck who kept saying the same thing, "you cant have smash mouth hockey players because skill suffers. However, the two are not mutually exclusive, you need both to win in the playoffs, Patrick Kane can't score the OT winning goal on his ass or looking for his teeth or sitting in the box over a chicken shit retaliation penalty.

Island Nucklehead wrote:This is not the style this team should be built towards. We don't have the size/talent combination of LA or San Jose or Anaheim, and adding fourth line guys like Sestito and third-line guys like Kassian makes us feel okay about our toughness, but our top-6 is nowhere near physical enough to play that style. The Sedins are good at KEEPING the puck in the corner, not knocking a d-man off it and getting it back. They want the puck on their stick at all times, not a chip and chase. They like a tic-tac-toe high-percentage pay, not a throw it on net and jam at the rebound with a mongoloid stapled to your spine.


Maybe you can answer this a little better than me, but did you see the Sedins forced by the coach to dump the puck in at the blue line and chase after it all season long or did you see them lose the puck trying to cycle it because the opposing teams could focus their best players all season long because of the lack of dangerous second and third lines?
I'll bet it was the latter that accounts for their drop in production.

"not a throw it on net and jam at the rebound with a mongoloid stapled to your spine" precisely why we need players who can do that sort of thing don't you think??

what's the percentage of winning garbage goals vs winning pretty goals?


Island Nucklehead wrote:It's like people think the only option for the post-AV era was to turn this team into the Boston Bruins or LA Kings. The Blackhawks, who beat the Big Bad Bruins last year, are not a big team. They currently boast guys up front like Kane (181 pounds), Shaw (180), Kruger (181), Sharp (199) and newcomer Teraveinin (169). Maybe our biggest problem was never toughness, just the inability to score enough goals?


"It's like people think the only option for the post-AV era was to turn this team into the Boston Bruins or LA Kings. " Thats exactly why AV was fired, Gillis was quite clear the team needed change to get younger and tougher. The team was stale and too many milk drinkers. And lets be clear here, the Hawks ARE a tough team, they played the Bruins the way the Canucks could not and won the cup...

Island Nucklehead wrote:Basically: this team doesn't have an identity anymore, and if people think we can turn this roster a complete 180 from a skill game to a physical forecheck game they are retarded. That process will take a few years, and I don't think the Sedins are the type of players to lead that change. I would much rather see the Canucks get bigger while maintaining some kind of offensive-oriented, puck possession game. Replacing Raymond with Kassian type moves, while keeping the offensive orientation of this team, is something we should be looking at. Asking the Sedins to play like Kesler is fucking nuts.


Well it sounds like you either agree with me or cant stop chasing your own tail. Replacing raymond with Kassian is exactly replacing soft skill with a physical forecheck
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:19 am

ukcanuck wrote:They couldn't win when it counted most, and had nothing left by the second period of game 6...end of story...


By the way, the Canucks outplayed the Bruins in Game 7 quite substantially. They outshot them 37-21 (shots distributed evenly throughout 3 periods........not just an artificially high number of shots in the 3rd due to Boston protecting the lead), and also outhit Boston by a huge margin as well (49-26 if memory serves me correctly?).

One empty netter + one stretch of bad play in the 2nd period + one goal in the first.

B's won the game fair and square, but the 4-0 score in Game 7 was artificially high and extremely misleading.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:40 am

The Brown Knight wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:They couldn't win when it counted most, and had nothing left by the second period of game 6...end of story...


By the way, the Canucks outplayed the Bruins in Game 7 quite substantially. They outshot them 37-21 (shots distributed evenly throughout 3 periods........not just an artificially high number of shots in the 3rd due to Boston protecting the lead), and also outhit Boston by a huge margin as well (49-26 if memory serves me correctly?).

One empty netter + one stretch of bad play in the 2nd period + one goal in the first.

B's won the game fair and square, but the 4-0 score in Game 7 was artificially high and extremely misleading.


You can colour a 4-0 score anyway you like, they lost. That's called losing. It's what losers do in the biggest game of their lives. Lose.

And that was the pinnacle of their success, and it's way past time to move on.

If the bruins didn't prove how to build a team for Stanley cup success or if LA hasn't the one thing that have proved is how to beat the Canucks of the last three seasons.

Time to change it up and that's what's happening as far as I can see.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby dbr » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:41 am

The Canucks were outshooting the Bruins 6-4 when Bergeron put the first goal past Luongo. 14-10 when Marchand scored the second goal. Hardly convincing control of the game by that measure, when it still mattered.

They outshot them 23-10 after that, (creating virtually nothing that I can recall at this point) so that's something.

But hey at least we get to talk about the 2011 Finals again...
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:47 am

Agreed with dbr in that I'm not really interested in rehashing 2011 all over again, and it sucks that I was dragged back into this conversation.

The point is this though. Yeah, we lost..........but it was in a 7 game series in the finals. We also had a significant number of injuries, and we also had an incredible regular season........and an incredible regular season the year after that.

Based on that alone, I don't think it was necessary to completely revamp our system and completely attempt to change our identity.

I think the Canucks would have been best served by keeping their identity of being a skilled puck possession team, while adding a few gritty pieces, and getting some kids into the line-up. Small tweaks. Small changes. Period.
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Re: What Do You Want as a Canuck Fan?

Postby Meds » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:53 am

ukcanuck wrote:"It's like people think the only option for the post-AV era was to turn this team into the Boston Bruins or LA Kings. " Thats exactly why AV was fired, Gillis was quite clear the team needed change to get younger and tougher. The team was stale and too many milk drinkers. And lets be clear here, the Hawks ARE a tough team, they played the Bruins the way the Canucks could not and won the cup...


It helped the Blackhawks that Boston was suffering from the same problem that the Canucks faced in 2011 when they squared off against the Bruins. Injuries and fatigue. Bergeron was playing through some serious injuries. Chara was totally exhausted in the finals, and it showed. They had lost a couple of other players during the playoff drive. Chicago had more talent and more depth. I think a healthy Boston wins that series.

Chicago also got a few very nice bounces in a couple of their wins. That was another thing that just did not go Vancouver's way a couple of years earlier. I will always wonder what would have happened if Henrik had made contact with that puck beside the empty net in game 4 or 6 (can't remember which), and the Canucks had opened the scoring, instead of having it bounce over his stick.....those are the little details that make huge differences in the outcome of a game/series. In 2013 those things just went against Boston instead of for them.
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