The Rebuild

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Re: The Rebuild

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:50 pm

mr perfect wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:I like Tony Gallaghers suggestions - Matt Moulson, Cammelleri and Vanek. Tony says any one of those 3 to play with Kesler will get us back to respectability.


:rofl:


What's so funny? Tony the Coach Hater is on to something here.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby mr perfect » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:18 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
mr perfect wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:I like Tony Gallaghers suggestions - Matt Moulson, Cammelleri and Vanek. Tony says any one of those 3 to play with Kesler will get us back to respectability.


:rofl:


What's so funny? Tony the Coach Hater is on to something here.


Where to start:

Skeletor/Gollum - :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: His hockey knowledge could comfortably fit into a gnat's anus with room left over for Jason Botchford's know how. S/G is nothing more than a shill for the player agents and the NHLPA for them to get what propaganda they want published. He's a useful idiot to them and nothing more. Think about it, when was the last time he wrote an in depth article on a player's ability or broke a story? The man doesn't know a hockey player from a hockey puck. He has no credibility.

The three FA's you mentioned - Are you serious? How well did these guys play on the teams they were first liners on? To get one of these thirty something FA's for an already full of thirty something players team, you're looking to spend $6.5 mil per for the next four years on players whose production will be sliding over that period of time. For that you might as well not buy out Booth and extend him. The Canucks need to bring in an infusion of twenty somethings (Think when Naslund, Bertuzzi and Morrison were acquired) to reload, not get more thirty somethings to add to a core of already too many thirty somethings.

In short, there is no one player or one magic bullet to turn this team around, certainly not the FA's available right now. If there is a team to emulate for the Canucks, look no further that the team that took them apart on Saturday, the Anaheim Ducks. They may have missed the playoffs a few times since they won the Cup in 2007 but they've reloaded without much pain compare to the Edmontons and Islanders.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Mondi » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:27 pm

The Ducks?

They've had two absolute thoroughbreds throughout the process, better than any two Canuck forwards save for perhaps the Sedins for two seasons, who are yet to turn 30. And, that Selanne guy too.

Hard to emulate Anaheim when you don't have the pieces to match them.

The Canucks seem to have the 20 somethings, they just don't have developed 20 somethings.

I like the idea of Mogilny for Morrison and Linden for Bertuzzi/McCabe type deals. But, have you seen any indication that is going to happen?

Luongo was a hint of that, but unless you offer up Burrows, a Sedin, or Kesler you're not getting 23-24 year old future studs.

As a stop gap while the young guys mature...it might be okay to bring in a UFA or two to help the older forwards when the team has money and cap space to burn. The problem, which you've identified, is term on those contracts.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Reefer2 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:54 pm

Mondi wrote:The Ducks?

They've had two absolute thoroughbreds throughout the process, better than any two Canuck forwards save for perhaps the Sedins for two seasons, who are yet to turn 30. And, that Selanne guy too.

Hard to emulate Anaheim when you don't have the pieces to match them.

The Canucks seem to have the 20 somethings, they just don't have developed 20 somethings.

I like the idea of Mogilny for Morrison and Linden for Bertuzzi/McCabe type deals. But, have you seen any indication that is going to happen?

Luongo was a hint of that, but unless you offer up Burrows, a Sedin, or Kesler you're not getting 23-24 year old future studs.

As a stop gap while the young guys mature...it might be okay to bring in a UFA or two to help the older forwards when the team has money and cap space to burn. The problem, which you've identified, is term on those contracts.



How do we not know if we have any studs if we never give them a chance. Unless we allow the guys we draft serious playing time we will never be a good team. AV had time in the past when the team had 1st place wrapped up by Jan/Feb to allow young guys to play and he never did.

Unless you have a GM and a coach dedicated to giving youg players a chance you will be forever stuck in signing over priced UFA.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Zedlee » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:11 pm

I'm all for a re-build, but here it the problem. The best time to trade Kesler is at the draft, which is obviously before July 1 when all the free agents become available. So the Canucks have a decision to make...trade Kesler or keep him and add a free agent on July 1. Although I love Keslers skill set and heart and grit, adding one free agent, I don't think, will be enough to put this team back into contention. The best option is to trade him, for some good pieces and move forward with youth. Forget about free agents this year...too much money chasing a few good guys and the salaries are going to be ridiculous.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Tciso » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:41 pm

RoyalDude wrote:I like Tony Gallaghers suggestions - Matt Moulson, Cammelleri and Vanek. Tony says any one of those 3 to play with Kesler will get us back to respectability.


RD, do you really listen to Gallagher? Poor, poor boy.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Strangelove » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:52 pm

Tciso wrote:RD, do you really listen to Gallagher?


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Re: The Rebuild

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:59 pm

Tciso wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:I like Tony Gallaghers suggestions - Matt Moulson, Cammelleri and Vanek. Tony says any one of those 3 to play with Kesler will get us back to respectability.


RD, do you really listen to Gallagher? Poor, poor boy.


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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Meds » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:21 pm

SKYO wrote:2014-15 - actually just keep Kesler and with Horvat on the 3rd line that would be killer.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Vanek Kesler Jensen
Matthias Horvat Kassian
Higgins Richardson Hansen
Sestito


Hank or RK get hurt, Matthias can easily move back to center. :thumbs: :thumbs:

Oh yeah and Mike Gillis is due for a Sundin like UFA signing...TV.


So we leave Kesler as a shoot-first center and surround him with shoot-first wingers. :roll:

Why are so many Canucks fans blind to the the problem we've had for so long here in Vancouver. Despite the acknowledgement of the fact that Kesler has never had a true playmaker to set him up on the second line, people still talk about putting him with goal scorers.

The Canucks have 3 above average playmakers on the current roster. Hank, Dank, and Kassian.....in that order. If we aren't splitting up the Sedins, and as has been pointed out it is probably a bad idea long term, then the goal should be to either get a solid top 2 playmaking center and move Kes to the wing, or find Kesler a playmaking winger.

Jensen-Kesler-Kassian would be a better option. Not saying Kas is better than Vanek, but I do think Vanek is highly overrated.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby SKYO » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:40 pm

If Edler refuses to waive, then trade for Ehrhoff.

EDLER EHRHOFF
HAMHUIS BIEKSA
GARRISON TANEV

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Re: The Rebuild

Postby mathonwy » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:26 pm

All of this injury talk has got me thinking..

Due to our craptacular drafting in the latter part of the 2000s, we currently have nobody that can step in on our top line. The one thing that this season has shown us is that the Sedins have lost their famed durability possibly forever. They are still very skilled players but they are also wearing down due to all of the abuse they've taken over the years. Same with Burr? I don't know. I'm leaning towards shit ass luck for Burr as opposed to body wearing down.

All the 18 year olds that we drafted last season are exactly that. 18 year olds. Could we get lucky and find our Kane and Toews in Horvat and Shinkaruk? Maybe. But probably not. Is Kassian smart enough to be a top 3 player? Debatable. Mathias? I haven't seen enough yet. The closest player we have that I "think" could be a top 3 player is Nick Jensen but ... I haven't seen enough.

So, we have a LOT of question marks on our team. Young players with ok-to-good pedigrees that have a lot of potential. Due to the age of the Sedins and the injuries both of them suffered this season, we may need a first line sooner rather than later. As seeing the Sedins being injured is new to everyone including the Sedins, again, another question mark.

Our best trade chip is Ryan Kesler and I think it is incumbent on Mike Gillis (or whomever) to trade him this summer for more prospects (or players age 20 to 25). We really need to make up for our shitty drafting somehow and Ryan Kesler is our best way to do it.

No more winning now mentality. No to Vanek, no to Cammalleri, no to Matt Moulson. We need more entry level contracts on this team, not UFA contracts that will probably come with NTCs.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:32 pm

mathonwy wrote:All of this injury talk has got me thinking..

Due to our craptacular drafting in the latter part of the 2000s, we currently have nobody that can step in on our top line. The one thing that this season has shown us is that the Sedins have lost their famed durability possibly forever. They are still very skilled players but they are also wearing down due to all of the abuse they've taken over the years. Same with Burr? I don't know. I'm leaning towards shit ass luck for Burr as opposed to body wearing down.

All the 18 year olds that we drafted last season are exactly that. 18 year olds. Could we get lucky and find our Kane and Toews in Horvat and Shinkaruk? Maybe. But probably not. Is Kassian smart enough to be a top 3 player? Debatable. Mathias? I haven't seen enough yet. The closest player we have that I "think" could be a top 3 player is Nick Jensen but ... I haven't seen enough.

So, we have a LOT of question marks on our team. Young players with ok-to-good pedigrees that have a lot of potential. Due to the age of the Sedins and the injuries both of them suffered this season, we may need a first line sooner rather than later. As seeing the Sedins being injured is new to everyone including the Sedins, again, another question mark.

Our best trade chip is Ryan Kesler and I think it is incumbent on Mike Gillis (or whomever) to trade him this summer for more prospects (or players age 20 to 25). We really need to make up for our shitty drafting somehow and Ryan Kesler is our best way to do it.

No more winning now mentality. No to Vanek, no to Cammalleri, no to Matt Moulson. We need more entry level contracts on this team, not UFA contracts that will probably come with NTCs.



A little late to the party there Mathowny :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby mathonwy » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:38 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
A little late to the party there Mathowny :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


All in good time H Dub. :)

Had to reason it all out in my brain first. I'm not a pro hockey analyzer. Still learning lots from folks like yourself and many others in the forum. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby SKYO » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:56 pm

mathonwy wrote:No more winning now mentality. No to Vanek, no to Cammalleri, no to Matt Moulson. We need more entry level contracts on this team, not UFA contracts that will probably come with NTCs.


I think this low cap season and injuries have clouded your judgement, IF healthy and with a couple of good reinforcements this team can contend easily.

I would go two more years of the 'win now' mentality with the Sedins and Kesler, and then let the UFA's walk after that, and that's when our young guns would be blossoming and ready to take over as 21-22 year olds.

Sign Vanek + Markov at two years each.

To make cap space, buyout booth and trade hansen and higgins for picks/prospects.

Team has got to bring along Horvat, so when Kesler bolts via UFA, BoHo will have two years of developing behind Hank and RK and be ready for a more prominent role.


CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
2015 Canucks
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($7.000m) / Henrik Sedin ($7.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Thomas Vanek ($8.000m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.863m)
Shawn Matthias ($1.750m) / Bo Horvat ($0.925m) / Zack Kassian ($1.250m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m) / Dane Fox ($0.831m)
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Andrei Markov ($6.500m)
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($3.000m)
Ryan Stanton ($0.550m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jacob Markstrom ($1.200m)
Eddie Lack ($1.150m)
BUYOUTS
David Booth ($0.000m)
Keith Ballard ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARIES (1.13% of upper limit)
Roberto Luongo ($0.800m—15.00%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,919,167; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $180,833
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby mathonwy » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:25 pm

SKYO wrote:
mathonwy wrote:No more winning now mentality. No to Vanek, no to Cammalleri, no to Matt Moulson. We need more entry level contracts on this team, not UFA contracts that will probably come with NTCs.


I think this low cap season and injuries have clouded your judgement, IF healthy and with a couple of good reinforcements this team can contend easily.


What happens if the Sedins get hurt again?

You've brought up all of our best prospects already.

What happens if the Sedins make it through the regular season ok but we get matched up against the Blue's in the first round.

We don't have the durability on this team to make another long cup run. IE. The Sedins aren't durable enough to make a long cup run as our top line.

Our defense isn't durable enough either. Skilled players yes. But you can't exactly classify anyone other than Jason Garrison as a "rock". We were all saying that Tanev was going to get hurt one of these days considering how much punishment he takes from forecheckers and lo and behold, he gets injured this season.

I think the "win now" mentality is a pipe dream unfortunately.
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