Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby dbr » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:47 am

mathonwy wrote:
dbr wrote:
Yeah, if we wanna make something happen at draft day let's fire Mike Gillis and go get the GM who was involved in the biggest trade of the last draft day!

I mean, the other GM involved in that trade.


You're defending Mike Gillis? Because.... he's proven to be such an astute trader right? ... :|


No I'm ridiculing the notion that "Mike Gillis doesn't have what it takes to make" a major move at the draft. For better or worse he's done it twice now.

(And I'm graciously ignoring the ludicrous implication that a GM with enough clout can somehow compel other GMs to make substantially different trade offers for a given player than they otherwise might, all else being equal.)
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:01 pm

Topper wrote:
mathonwy wrote:You got every GM trying to low ball him at the trade deadline

So you say it is GMMG' fault others may have been low balling him.

mathonwy wrote:when he's got arguably the one of the more impactful players allegedly available at a trade deadline in Ryan Kesler.

Butt you are not certain Kesler was available.

Oh Mathowny, you better talk to the Mods again about deleting for you.


Hi Topper,

Your insistence on mispelling my name can only lead me to one conclusion and that is you have a very unhealthy fixation on me. Please get help.

-Math
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:02 pm

dbr wrote:
No I'm ridiculing the notion that "Mike Gillis doesn't have what it takes to make" a major move at the draft. For better or worse he's done it twice now.

(And I'm graciously ignoring the ludicrous implication that a GM with enough clout can somehow compel other GMs to make substantially different trade offers for a given player than they otherwise might, all else being equal.)


I think this bears an extended conversation and I don't want to derail an Alex Burrows appreciation thread (BECAUSE ALEX ROCKS YO). Would you be ok to move this conversation to the rudderless thread?
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Topper » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:22 pm

mathonwy wrote:
Topper wrote:
mathonwy wrote:You got every GM trying to low ball him at the trade deadline

So you say it is GMMG' fault others may have been low balling him.

mathonwy wrote:when he's got arguably the one of the more impactful players allegedly available at a trade deadline in Ryan Kesler.

Butt you are not certain Kesler was available.

Oh Mathowny, you better talk to the Mods again about deleting for you.


Hi Topper,

Your insistence on mispelling my name can only lead me to one conclusion and that is you have a very unhealthy fixation on me. Please get help.

-Math

No, it simply means I don't care about you enough to worry about getting your name correct.

But I am glad you are concerned about me.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:26 pm

Topper wrote:No, it simply means I don't care about you enough to worry about getting your name correct.

But I am glad you are concerned about me.

I am very concerned about you and your mental well being.

Get better soon.
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:48 pm

dbr wrote:In seriousness what I should have clarified with (and trust me, it seems obvious when you are the one who wrote it and already knows what you're saying) is that buying Burrows out and then trying to get a player like Burrows for the same cost makes no sense; doing so because you're trying to change the personality of the team is at least a cogent idea, even if I don't find it a particularly convincing one.


Thanks for admitting you've been anything but clear Dave.

And hey, lets face it, it was a crazy idea!

Soooo do you have any idea at all why you shared it with us? :look:

dbr wrote:But I mean if you think Alex Burrows is every bit the player that Henrik Sedin and Ryan Kesler are, and Daniel is supposed to be :scowl:, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Well I never said that, so no need to agree-to-disagree on this one Dave. :thumbs:

But then Alex Burrows has a cap hit that is a mere 64% of what the Sedins make

(and everyone knows Kesler is ridiculously underpaid).

But what does this have to do with YOU comparing Burrows' contract to that of our one true buyout candidate?

Mmm don't ever lump Burrows in with the likes of our one true buyout candidate again... okay Dave? :hmmm:

dbr wrote:If Burrows is here and bounces back I'll be happy


So you admit you love the Burrows contract as long as Burrows remains a quality top-sixer?

dbr wrote:This is the team's one chance to get out from under a bad contract, scot free, and if they are committed to spending money over and above the cap ceiling to improve the on ice product I'll be happy with that. If they want to maximize the impact they will consider using it on a contract with more remaining term than David Booth's. Burrows has had an awful year and might be a candidate to some.


Just to be clear, these folks to whom you are referring... these "some"... are not-too-bright, right Dave?

Well at least not bright enough to grasp the concept of a season derailed by injuries.

I wonder if these "some" are having second thoughts after Burrows' play of late.

dbr wrote:Dredge up this thread in about ten months, and I might be ready to admit that buying out Burrows might have been a mistake if it doesn't happen and he is the Burr of old out there.


Okay, if you say so Dave.

By the way Dave, have you noticed Burrows has 5 goals and 4 assists in his last 6 games? :thumbs:

dbr wrote:This upcoming season Alex will be 33, this year there were 15 forwards in meaningful roles (10 minutes a game or more) who were 33 on 10/1/2013.


Pretty much EXACTLY the number of 23 year old forwards who have done the same this season!

Funny how that works eh Dave?

Every season on October 1, there are forwards anywhere from age 18 to age 43.

We don't take them out and shoot them when they turn 33.

dbr wrote:Another little thought experiment.. let's take a look at guys playing their 32 year old season (like Alex did this year) awhile back and find out where they were in their 35 year old season. I want to eliminate wacky shortened seasons and artificially low cap ceilings so I'm going to pick 32 year olds as of 10/1/2008 and see how they were contributing in 2011/12.

Now I swear I picked these arbitrarily, here they are (guys who played in 2011-12 in bold):

Eric Perrin, Richard Zednik, Radek Bonk, Mathieu Dandeneault, Milan Hejduk, Ryan Smyth, Chris Clark, Patrik Elias, Jeff Halpern, Steve Reinprecht, Richard Park, Wayne Primeau, Ryan Johnson, Chris Drury, Daymond Langkow

It's a hell of an attrition rate. Maybe Burrows will be an exception like Patrik Elias or Milan Hejduk or Langkow, because he sure as hell won't be dirt cheap like Halpern and Park were. Then again, perhaps he will just be our Ryan Smyth.


In their 35-year-old seasons…

Smyth/Elias/Hejduk were putting up career average numbers and playing 19+ minutes per night

(well Hejduk’s numbers + icetime finally dropped halfway through his 35-year-old season).

Halpern’s numbers were virtually identical in the 2 seasons you are comparing

(really though, he was never the same player after blowing his knee out in 2008).

Perrin is a nobody who had played just 2 NHL seasons by age 32.

Zednick was never the same after Jokinen sliced him open in 2008, shortening his career.

Bonk decided to return to Europe after that season (he’s still playing).

Dandenault was a fringer (203 points in 868 games).

Chris Clark’s career was derailed by injuries.

Ditto Reinprecht after major shoulder surgery when he was just 27.

Richard Park, what is this, some kind of a joke!

Ryan Johnson, it IS a joke!!

Wayne Primeau, the most goals he ever had in an NHL season was 9. :scowl:

Chris Drury, okay no one knows what the fuck happened to Drury.

Noticed you never mentioned guys like Shane Doan, Petr Sykora, and Matt Cullen...

But then you DID mention Patrik Elias, Milan Hejduk, Daymond Langkow. :thumbs:

It seems to me that the SMART forwards and the ones who have put up great numbers for many years

.... are the ones who tend to play at a high level into their mid 30s.

Forwards like Alexandre Burrows!

I've mentioned a few times that Burrows only gets $3m real dollars in his 35-year-old-season.

IF for some reason we had to unload him, that would be the best time

(trade him and his $4.5m cap-hit to a salary-floor team in a $64m cap-floor/$80m cap-max world).

But I feel comfortable in saying Mr Burrows will always earn his keep.

Y’know Dave, I'm not sure you fully grasp the concept of an Appreciation Thread. :hmmm:
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby dbr » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:54 am

Strangelove wrote:And hey, lets face it, it was a crazy idea!

Soooo do you have any idea at all why you shared it with us? :look:


Just jumping off from your assumption that moving on from Burrows would require finding a replacement with a similar contract. I disagree with that.

Mmm don't ever lump Burrows in with the likes of our one true buyout candidate again... okay Dave? :hmmm:


Both make between $4-5m. Both born some time in the 1980s. Both North American. Both hockey players. Both males. Both Vancouver Canucks. Etc etc etc. Let's not get too worked up about the vaguest of comparisons.

So you admit you love the Burrows contract as long as Burrows remains a quality top-sixer?


Well his little run here has been really encouraging and allows you to say "remains" now. When all of this talk you're responding to was going on earlier in the year that wasn't the case.

But yes, if Burrows is a quality top six player next year I'll be happy with having him around, and if he's that the following two years it will have turned into a good contract.

Just to be clear, these folks to whom you are referring... these "some"... are not-too-bright, right Dave?

Well at least not bright enough to grasp the concept of a season derailed by injuries.

I wonder if these "some" are having second thoughts after Burrows' play of late.


:roll:

He's sure turned this season around. Is he going to continue this level of play for the next three years when most players don't, I don't know. I hope so.

Okay, if you say so Dave.

By the way Dave, have you noticed Burrows has 5 goals and 4 assists in his last 6 games? :thumbs:


Yeah it's a big relief. I can't recall where I said this earlier this year, but if the Canucks best buy out candidate at the end of the season remains David Booth then that's great news. Hopefully Burrows continues this level of play not just into next year but the years following.

Noticed you never mentioned guys like Shane Doan, Petr Sykora, and Matt Cullen...

But then you DID mention Patrik Elias, Milan Hejduk, Daymond Langkow. :thumbs:

It seems to me that the SMART forwards and the ones who have put up great numbers for many years

.... are the ones who tend to play at a high level into their mid 30s.

Forwards like Alexandre Burrows!

I've mentioned a few times that Burrows only gets $3m real dollars in his 35-year-old-season.

IF for some reason we had to unload him, that would be the best time

(trade him and his $4.5m cap-hit to a salary-floor team in a $64m cap-floor/$80m cap-max world).

But I feel comfortable in saying Mr Burrows will always earn his keep.


Hey, fair enough.

(Forwards like Doan, Cullen etc. were excluded because they weren't the age I was looking at in the seasons I picked. Like I said it's a small sample).

I hope you're right about Burrows. And I hope his career isn't derailed by injuries (like it so often is, particularly for older guys) because as we've seen this year it can really impact his effectiveness.

Y’know Dave, I'm not sure you fully grasp the concept of an Appreciation Thread. :hmmm:


Yes, ostensibly that's exactly what this thread is. :look:

I sure do appreciate when Alex Burrows is a feisty, effective hockey player. I hope that he has as much to offer this franchise over the next few years as he has over the last few. :thumbs:
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:47 pm

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:And hey, lets face it, it was a crazy idea!

Soooo do you have any idea at all why you shared it with us? :look:


Just jumping off from your assumption that moving on from Burrows would require finding a replacement with a similar contract. I disagree with that.


:crazy:

Ummmm... I just went back and read my OP... and yeah, I said no such thing. :eh:

In your response to my OP you said:

"this is a franchise in transition and if part of that means moving Burr's cap space and roster spot to another player I'm fine with that."

YOU brought it up, YOU made the assumption, YOU were "fine with that", and now YOU "disagree with that".

Dave, if you want to argue with yourself, please create a sock account and leave me out of it! :lol:

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Mmm don't ever lump Burrows in with the likes of our one true buyout candidate again... okay Dave? :hmmm:


Both make between $4-5m. Both born some time in the 1980s. Both North American. Both hockey players. Both males. Both Vancouver Canucks. Etc etc etc. Let's not get too worked up about the vaguest of comparisons.


You're not getting this are you?

For the 3rd time: Burrows is not a buyout candidate.

He's a valuable asset whether he is 30% overpaid on the 3rd line or slightly underpaid in the top 6.

WHY WOULD YOU BUYOUT A PLAYER YOU COULD TRADE?

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:So you admit you love the Burrows contract as long as Burrows remains a quality top-sixer?


Well his little run here has been really encouraging and allows you to say "remains" now. When all of this talk you're responding to was going on earlier in the year that wasn't the case.


You are admitting I have a case now, and saying I did not have a case "earlier in the year".

Thanks, but actually I had a case all along.

A case built upon everything Burrows has done over the previous 5 seasons. :mex:

dbr wrote:But yes, if Burrows is a quality top six player next year I'll be happy with having him around, and if he's that the following two years it will have turned into a good contract.


I'd say if he's a quality top six player for the next 2 years it's a great contract.

Hell, if he's a tweener who scores 20-per-82 for the next 2 years as an elite penalty killer

... well it ain't too shabby.

Dave Bolland will likely be making Burrows money when he signs this summer.

I'd say that's a pretty good comparable.

Yes, I realize he's 5 years younger than Burrows.

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Just to be clear, these folks to whom you are referring... these "some"... are not-too-bright, right Dave?

Well at least not bright enough to grasp the concept of a season derailed by injuries.

I wonder if these "some" are having second thoughts after Burrows' play of late.


:roll:

He's sure turned this season around. Is he going to continue this level of play for the next three years when most players don't, I don't know. I hope so.


Pretty sure I just proved that most players of Burrows' calibre actually DO continue into their mid-thirties.

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Noticed you never mentioned guys like Shane Doan, Petr Sykora, and Matt Cullen...

But then you DID mention Patrik Elias, Milan Hejduk, Daymond Langkow. :thumbs:

It seems to me that the SMART forwards and the ones who have put up great numbers for many years

.... are the ones who tend to play at a high level into their mid 30s.

Forwards like Alexandre Burrows!

I've mentioned a few times that Burrows only gets $3m real dollars in his 35-year-old-season.

IF for some reason we had to unload him, that would be the best time

(trade him and his $4.5m cap-hit to a salary-floor team in a $64m cap-floor/$80m cap-max world).

But I feel comfortable in saying Mr Burrows will always earn his keep.


Hey, fair enough.

(Forwards like Doan, Cullen etc. were excluded because they weren't the age I was looking at in the seasons I picked. Like I said it's a small sample).


Okay, I see.

Doan was born 9 days after the October 1 date you arbitrarily chose.

Cullen was born one month after that date, Sykora 6 weeks after said date.

I vote we change the selected date to November 19/1976! :D

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Y’know Dave, I'm not sure you fully grasp the concept of an Appreciation Thread. :hmmm:


Yes, ostensibly that's exactly what this thread is. :look:

I sure do appreciate when Alex Burrows is a feisty, effective hockey player. I hope that he has as much to offer this franchise over the next few years as he has over the last few. :thumbs:


Right on David, who loves ya bro! :thumbs:
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby dbr » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:23 am

Strangelove wrote:
dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:And hey, lets face it, it was a crazy idea!

Soooo do you have any idea at all why you shared it with us? :look:


Just jumping off from your assumption that moving on from Burrows would require finding a replacement with a similar contract. I disagree with that.


:crazy:

Ummmm... I just went back and read my OP... and yeah, I said no such thing. :eh:

In your response to my OP you said:

"this is a franchise in transition and if part of that means moving Burr's cap space and roster spot to another player I'm fine with that."

YOU brought it up, YOU made the assumption, YOU were "fine with that", and now YOU "disagree with that".

Dave, if you want to argue with yourself, please create a sock account and leave me out of it! :lol:


:lol:

Well you're probably going to find this to be a bit nitpicky, but "moving Burr's cap space.. to another player" doesn't necessarily mean "finding another $4.5m player" does it?
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:44 pm

dbr wrote:"moving Burr's cap space.. to another player" doesn't necessarily mean "finding another $4.5m player" does it?


No but this does:

"The Canucks could dump Burrows and pay him $8m plus another ~$13.5m to another forward over the next three years"

($8m being Burrows' total buyout amount)

:hmmm:

Throughout this thread you have consistently suggested Mr Burrows is not a great bang for one's buck.

*prays Spidey doesn't spin that into a sexual/racist remark* :scowl:

All this talk of buying out Mr Burrows is ludicrous, ridiculous, unscrupulous...

But at the end of the day you have presented a fantastic opportunity for me to present my case.

You have been the perfect foil for the hero of this thread, namely yours truly.

And for that I thank you my good man. :mex:
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Topper » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:24 am

Burrows is being parked for the remainder of the season in order to avoid injury facilitating a buyout of his contract.

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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Arachnid » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:56 am

Strangelove wrote:
dbr wrote:"moving Burr's cap space.. to another player" doesn't necessarily mean "finding another $4.5m player" does it?


No but this does:

"The Canucks could dump Burrows and pay him $8m plus another ~$13.5m to another forward over the next three years"

($8m being Burrows' total buyout amount)

:hmmm:

Throughout this thread you have consistently suggested Mr Burrows is not a great bang for one's buck.

*prays Spidey doesn't spin that into a sexual/racist remark* :scowl:

All this talk of buying out Mr Burrows is ludicrous, ridiculous, unscrupulous...

But at the end of the day you have presented a fantastic opportunity for me to present my case.

You have been the perfect foil for the hero of this thread, namely yours truly.

And for that I thank you my good man. :mex:


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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Arachnid » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:57 am

Topper wrote:Burrows is being parked for the remainder of the season in order to avoid injury facilitating a buyout of his contract.

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Well it's about time!

:D
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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby Strangelove » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:49 pm

Topper wrote:Burrows is being parked for the remainder of the season in order to avoid injury facilitating a buyout of his contract.

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An eye for an eye....


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Re: Alexandre Burrows Appreciation Thread

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:18 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Topper wrote:Burrows is being parked for the remainder of the season in order to avoid injury facilitating a buyout of his contract.

Link



An eye for an eye....


Image



BTW you can't unsee that....


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