The Rebuild

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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Topper » Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:49 pm

Reefer2 wrote:The core is done, put a fork in them.

Trade Edler, Kesler and another the top 4 D.

Get back young players who were drafted high and played some NHL or NHL ready.

Fire Gillis first before anything happens.

Hire a coach who does not preach shot blocking, of course you do it but for freaks sake you need to score more than 2 goals a game so you need offense.

Time out, shuffle lines.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Reefer2 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:55 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I've watched enough sucking from our core while they were a contender with their stars firing to know that this group won't amount to anything more than we've already seen.

Sure the OP was extreme but haven't you seen enough yet? The team needs more than a tinkering. It needs to be reborn.

The funny thing is I think you're going to watch them suck regardless of whether kesler, burrows or Edler are in the line up or not.


It's half of one year of suckage. You don't blow up a whole team because of it. A guy like Kesler wants out you trade him, along with anyone else who doesn't want to be here. No reason to blow it up, there are 4 or 5 young kids that will be joining the team in the next couple of years and that's enough new blood to achieve what we are looking for.


Half a year? Where were you when they were blown out 2 years in a row in the playoffs and now this season they have a better chance of getting a 5th or 6th overall pick vs. making the playoffs.

Gillis has proven he cannot make the required adjustment because of his stupid loyalty to his players. He does not have the balls in him to move this team forward.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Strangelove » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:22 pm

Reefer2 wrote:He does not have the balls in him to move this team forward.


Not sure why you prefer a GM suffering from cryptorchidism, but I'm guessing you're a big fan of Hansen.

I'm confident in Gillis' ability to turn this boat around.

Firing Gillis, given his knowledge gained over the years of the internal team dynamics, would not be a wise move.

Gillis has shown his patience at the card table and finally will have some room to work with this summer

(should finally be able to buyout Booth; has moved Luongo's contract; cap going up).

If a new GM comes in, he's likely to make ill-conceived trades-for-the-sake-of-trades.

Firing Gillis would be the worst thing the Canucks could do at this point.

Sometimes I think some of you #firegillis folk are moles working for Flames or some shit.

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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Meds » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:50 pm

Yeah. Let's continue to suck, tank and trade all our veteran talent and play a bunch of kids next season.

It's a great plan! Seriously!

I mean, the kids won't win more than 25 games, probably finish with a record of 25-45-12, we'll get a top 3 pick for sure, and then we'll be set for the future.....just like the Oilers!

It's a great idea and should be the new process. We'll develop our youth under the tutelage of our top paid and franchise leading scorers.....a couple of guys that can act pissed off and embarrassed after a game by throwing their stick and glaring at the ref as they head for the links, but can't muster up any kind of pissed off aggression during a game and funnel it into something that counts, on ice results! I mean, this way the kids will never learn what it takes to win and we'll be watching them bail as free agents because they are sick of spinning their wheels in the cellar. Then we'll watch as they turn into the players we hoped they would.....on another team! Oh it's brilliant!
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Meds » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:03 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I've watched enough sucking from our core while they were a contender with their stars firing to know that this group won't amount to anything more than we've already seen.

Sure the OP was extreme but haven't you seen enough yet? The team needs more than a tinkering. It needs to be reborn.

The funny thing is I think you're going to watch them suck regardless of whether kesler, burrows or Edler are in the line up or not.


It's half of one year of suckage. You don't blow up a whole team because of it. A guy like Kesler wants out you trade him, along with anyone else who doesn't want to be here. No reason to blow it up, there are 4 or 5 young kids that will be joining the team in the next couple of years and that's enough new blood to achieve what we are looking for.


Half a year? Where were you when they were blown out 2 years in a row in the playoffs and now this season they have a better chance of getting a 5th or 6th overall pick vs. making the playoffs.


This is the first year under Gillis' tenure at the helm where the team has performed during the regular season the same way they have the past two playoffs. In 2012 he had the excuse that Daniel was out and that 22 would have made a difference against the Kings. In 2013 he pointed to a weirdly shortened season, distractions in the media, and some unforeseen changes in the CBA that prevented him from making changes he wanted to make.

He has no excuses now. Injuries? No excuse this time. Point no farther than the Tampa Bay Lightning who lost the best goal scorer in the league for 3+ months and are still a contender in the East. The Torts/Hartley bullshit is just that, bullshit. Not an excuse for what we've seen.

The timing of new contracts from Gillis has also been questionable.

Handing Daniel a $7M extension is inexcusable. The guy is supposed to be the team's top goal scorer. He has done that once in the last 4 years.....and both he and Henrik have been trending down.

The $5M extension for Edler was bizarre. Edler hadn't performed to expectations since 2011. Sure give him a raise instead of trading him when his value was at its peak.

I think he has until draft day.....maybe until the middle of July. If he's done nothing substantial he's got to go.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby vic » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:56 pm

Reefer2 wrote:Gillis has proven he cannot make the required adjustment because of his stupid loyalty to his players. He does not have the balls in him to move this team forward.


Adjustments: After getting knocked out of the playoff, acquiring players like:
Hamuis, Sammuellson, Torres, Malhotra, Erhoff, Higgins, Lappiere Tanev and Rome

Stupid loyalty by letting the following walk:
Torres, Malhotra, Erhoff, Lappiere, Naslund

Nonis, on the other hand though the likes of Weinrich, Carney, Sopel, Brunnstrom, and Weaver were the missing pieces.

Burke traded Bure (the best player and goal scorer this team ever had) for Special Ed and a bag of pucks
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby dbr » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:32 am

My rebuild.. I wouldn't trade Kesler or Edler unless they want out. Might quietly explore whether Hamhuis or Bieksa would move on AND could return great value on the trade market.

Buy out Booth and Burrows (yeah yeah Doc), or at any rate get them off the team. I'd move Higgins or Hansen (especially Hansen) in the right deal, ideally a destitute man's Louis Eriksson for Seguin.. ie. Higgins or Hansen plus a couple of secondary prospects for a player five years younger with more upside.

Seems like a lot of teams were wary of signing the 35+ guys to anything beyond a year this past season, if that continues I'd look to one up the other teams giving a player like Iginla or Alfredsson the market rate over two years to help bridge the gap.

Try to get a couple of young players a regular role on the team, ideally Horvat to keep him out of junior and do whatever you can to get Ben Hutton to turn pro.

For 2015-16 you have the Sedins, Kesler, a veteran UFA plus Higgins or Hansen and Matthias rounded out by Kassian, Horvat and Jensen plus possibly Shinkaruk and Gaunce, whoever we take in the top 10 this year and an outside shot that guys like Lain, Fox et al are able to contribute.

On the blueline it's Edler, Garrison, Tanev and Hamhuis/Bieksa plus Stanton and Corrado with Hutton hopefully adjusting to the pro game in Utica.

All of those players aren't going to pan out as parts of the next core of this team but a good number should and as long as the team maintains their commitment to keeping their picks and drafts as well as they've seemed to in 2013 it should be a more than solid start to completely rebuilding.

It may not be as sexy as being the worst team in hockey :roll:, but hey..
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Boston Canucker » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:25 am

A few things I'd like to see:

Fire Torts and hire John Stevens (the coach I wanted hired last year), because from all accounts he's done great work with the D in LA and he has had coaching success at the NHL/AHL. We need that D-core stabilized, developed and clear about what it is doing. These breakdowns in 3rd periods (which have cost us a playoff spot, amount of points we dropped) are a product of many things, but having a coach who can give them the proper guidance without freaking confusing them (which is what Torts has done), would be a good start to correct this. P.S. The decline of the Canucks did not start with the Calgary game it started with the LA "moral victory" game where Torts decided they'd crossed a few bridges, and was too stupid to realize they'd just jumped off a bridge. Hire Stevens.

At the draft, let teams know Kesler is available at a specific price (top roster player, top prospect, #1 pick) and if you don't get that by the end of the draft he stays in Van and any team can have him in 2 years when he's ufa, but otherwise he is off the trade market. Let Kesler know if he's not dealt at the draft he's a Canucks for at least 2 years. So, other teams will know, it's now or never, and Kesler will know, if it does not occur at the draft, the drama is over. The risk is we do lose him in two years, but that's a gamble for teams that might want him as well - in 2 years the price will likely be higher than 5 mill, and he'll be two years older. So, get the deal done, or cut off the issue. Enough with this slow bleeding bullshit. (And if we want to get the Pens to cough up more than was offered at the deadline, root for them to get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round. If they win the Cup or even get to the final w/o kesler, the urgency will clearly be lessened on their end)

Booth you can buyout or see if you can move him for a 3rd/4th/5th round pick, maybe back to Fla. Teams will need to make the Cap floor, so maybe Gillis can save one of his buyouts by dumping him somewhere, as he only has 1 year left on his deal anyway.

Not sure if I'd buy out Burrows because my hunch is he will bounce back from a nightmare season, but if it's deemed a necessity, then the buyout you save by trading Booth can be used on him. My better buyout possibility is Garrison. He's signed a year longer than Burrows and to be honest, I see more upside to Burr than him. We have young D coming up, I'd rather make room for them and leave Burrows in place as our younger forwards start to break in.

Find a quality experienced goalie to team up with Lack. A few will be on the market. Don't overpay, and don't make the contract length too long, but Lack can't be out there all on his own. Maybe Brian Elliott from St. Louis as I think he'll be shoved aside for their young keeper to back up Miller. Give Erricson and Markstrom a year in Utica, see who wins out between them to move up.

See if you can get something for Hanson, pick, prospect, something. Jensen, and at least 1 of Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Fox I expect to be on the opening day roster next year. As young forwards come up, room will need to be made, he's out.

I'd keep Higgins because he comes in at a damn good price for around a 20 goal scorer who works his tail off. Great guy to have in the lineup, model for other players.

The ambition for next season should be to have a hard working, younger team that can expect to challenge every night but with the understanding that the expectations are not as a contender, but a team that will bust it's butt to prove itself. If Kesler is still with the team, clearly they will be a step up in quality, but if he's traded and the haul back is good the re-tool is on. Let what happens happen. If the team blends well and makes a lower level playoff spot, cool, if it's still a bottom 5 club with a lottery ticket in the McDavid stakes, we can live with that too.

The Sedins aren't going anywhere, so no use speculating otherwise. I expect them also to bounce back, the drop off is too precipituous for them to suddenly lose their skills like that. A new coach will also help. Torts starts the season saying he's going to let them do their thing, that you can't teach offense, then later we hear he is trying to get them to play above the hashmarks, less cycling, so apparently he is telling them how to play; he's got them totally confused.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Diehard1 » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:45 am

Boston Canucker wrote:A few things I'd like to see:

Fire Torts and hire John Stevens (the coach I wanted hired last year), because from all accounts he's done great work with the D in LA and he has had coaching success at the NHL/AHL. We need that D-core stabilized, developed and clear about what it is doing. These breakdowns in 3rd periods (which have cost us a playoff spot, amount of points we dropped) are a product of many things, but having a coach who can give them the proper guidance without freaking confusing them (which is what Torts has done), would be a good start to correct this. P.S. The decline of the Canucks did not start with the Calgary game it started with the LA "moral victory" game where Torts decided they'd crossed a few bridges, and was too stupid to realize they'd just jumped off a bridge. Hire Stevens.

At the draft, let teams know Kesler is available at a specific price (top roster player, top prospect, #1 pick) and if you don't get that by the end of the draft he stays in Van and any team can have him in 2 years when he's ufa, but otherwise he is off the trade market. Let Kesler know if he's not dealt at the draft he's a Canucks for at least 2 years. So, other teams will know, it's now or never, and Kesler will know, if it does not occur at the draft, the drama is over. The risk is we do lose him in two years, but that's a gamble for teams that might want him as well - in 2 years the price will likely be higher than 5 mill, and he'll be two years older. So, get the deal done, or cut off the issue. Enough with this slow bleeding bullshit. (And if we want to get the Pens to cough up more than was offered at the deadline, root for them to get knocked out in the 1st or 2nd round. If they win the Cup or even get to the final w/o kesler, the urgency will clearly be lessened on their end)

Booth you can buyout or see if you can move him for a 3rd/4th/5th round pick, maybe back to Fla. Teams will need to make the Cap floor, so maybe Gillis can save one of his buyouts by dumping him somewhere, as he only has 1 year left on his deal anyway.

Not sure if I'd buy out Burrows because my hunch is he will bounce back from a nightmare season, but if it's deemed a necessity, then the buyout you save by trading Booth can be used on him. My better buyout possibility is Garrison. He's signed a year longer than Burrows and to be honest, I see more upside to Burr than him. We have young D coming up, I'd rather make room for them and leave Burrows in place as our younger forwards start to break in.

Find a quality experienced goalie to team up with Lack. A few will be on the market. Don't overpay, and don't make the contract length too long, but Lack can't be out there all on his own. Maybe Brian Elliott from St. Louis as I think he'll be shoved aside for their young keeper to back up Miller. Give Erricson and Markstrom a year in Utica, see who wins out between them to move up.

See if you can get something for Hanson, pick, prospect, something. Jensen, and at least 1 of Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, Fox I expect to be on the opening day roster next year. As young forwards come up, room will need to be made, he's out.

I'd keep Higgins because he comes in at a damn good price for around a 20 goal scorer who works his tail off. Great guy to have in the lineup, model for other players.

The ambition for next season should be to have a hard working, younger team that can expect to challenge every night but with the understanding that the expectations are not as a contender, but a team that will bust it's butt to prove itself. If Kesler is still with the team, clearly they will be a step up in quality, but if he's traded and the haul back is good the re-tool is on. Let what happens happen. If the team blends well and makes a lower level playoff spot, cool, if it's still a bottom 5 club with a lottery ticket in the McDavid stakes, we can live with that too.

The Sedins aren't going anywhere, so no use speculating otherwise. I expect them also to bounce back, the drop off is too precipituous for them to suddenly lose their skills like that. A new coach will also help. Torts starts the season saying he's going to let them do their thing, that you can't teach offense, then later we hear he is trying to get them to play above the hashmarks, less cycling, so apparently he is telling them how to play; he's got them totally confused.


I think you and I have similar ideas. The only one I'm not sure about is hiring John Stevens - not because I don't think he's a good coach, but because I'm not sure his system is one thus team can adapt to. Obviously a Torts style dump and chase defensive system isn't the one, and LA plays a very similar style. Is that due to Sutter or is that what Stevens wants as well? If Stevens can play a puck possession game then he might be the one, if not then he's not somebody you want.

For me the biggest miss last offseason was Jon Cooper, he's a highly innovative coach from BC who would have done a great job. He's now in TBay to stay it seems though. I'm sure there will be a few candidates out there.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby The_Pauser » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:28 am

Strangelove wrote:Well your OP most certainly did not deserve any more thought than that Dan.

YES: It was THAT ridiculous.

Kesler, Edler, and Burrows for 2015 picks! Image

Take your "top 3 pick in 2015" and cram it ALL the way up your ass with a red-hot poker... mmmKAY?

Obviously this team is going to go the retool route.

Obviously this team is not going to tank next season.

I humbly suggest you watch the youtube clip I provided... over and over and over... until you get it.

Or are you intent on.... "continuing to suck"? :scowl:

Work with me Dan, I'm trying to help you...


Well in addition to having a crappy offense, this team has now invented its own goaltending problem. We aren't going to be contending for the playoffs next season so get that out of your mind right now.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Boston Canucker » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:53 am

Diehard wrote:I think you and I have similar ideas. The only one I'm not sure about is hiring John Stevens - not because I don't think he's a good coach, but because I'm not sure his system is one thus team can adapt to. Obviously a Torts style dump and chase defensive system isn't the one, and LA plays a very similar style. Is that due to Sutter or is that what Stevens wants as well? If Stevens can play a puck possession game then he might be the one, if not then he's not somebody you want.

For me the biggest miss last offseason was Jon Cooper, he's a highly innovative coach from BC who would have done a great job. He's now in TBay to stay it seems though. I'm sure there will be a few candidates out there.


Yes, there may well be better coaching candidates out there, I don't really know. Seems to me Stevens has had experience working with young players in AHL, took the Flyers to the ECF, and as assistant has won a Cup with Kings. So, he brings a range of experience, and would probably be hungry for that second HC job. But I'm sure other strong candidates are out there. All that said, my ideas are what I would like to see, but I have a sense the Gillis/Torts road show is going to get one more year...Aquaman is not paying them off just yet.
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby damonberryman » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:51 pm

I am not really sure what the answer is. There is a solid D on this team if used right. I think we are going through the downside of being successful for so long. Too many draft choices in the late end of rounds and some poor trades such as Booth. The Lou move was good but we do need a backup until Lack has played his way into or out of the starter role. Some good kids coming up and probably a high draft choice this year and if we play our cards right with trades maybe we can get a shot at McDavid.

In any case, I am a fan and have been since the WHL days with Phil Maloney. Part of being a fan to me is to stick in no matter what. it would be nice if they won before I die, but it may not happen. Still, I hope....
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Strangelove » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:23 pm

dbr wrote:Buy out Booth and Burrows (yeah yeah Doc)


Et tu Daveh?

Burrows has a season from hell, suffering two major injuries, and suddenly you're ready to stick the fork in?

After all he has done for this team?

Going into this season, for 5 years, he's been one our best penalty killer, one of the best in the league in fact.

Also, without the benefit of regular #1PP duties (Kes/Hank/Dank) he's been one of our best goal scorers.

Summer of 2008 to this past summer, GOALS:

Dan 143 (+ 18 playoffs), Burrows 130 (+ 18 P/Os), Kes 118 (+ 12 P/Os), Hank 95 (+12 P/Os).

Some people want to dump him because they wrongly assume he's done after an injury-plagued season.

Some people want to dump him because he's arguable overpaid by about $1m. :hmmm:

Some people want to dump him because he bit a guy once. :roll:

(did I mention he's also one of the best agitators in the league?)

You 90% or so who want him gone are blind.

He's already getting his game back but y'all continue to make one of our best players.. your whipping boy. :scowl:

Madness.

Agreed with the rest of your post except, as I've said for the last year, Edler should be the dee to go.

dbr wrote:It may not be as sexy as being the worst team in hockey :roll:, but hey..


Yeah, why are we retoolers wasting our time in a "Rebuild" thread....
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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Strangelove » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:27 pm

Boston Canucker wrote:Not sure if I'd buy out Burrows because my hunch is he will bounce back from a nightmare season


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Re: The Rebuild

Postby Strangelove » Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:27 pm

The_Pauser wrote:We aren't going to be contending for the playoffs next season so get that out of your mind right now.


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