A Rudderless Ship

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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:33 pm

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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby SKYO » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:37 pm

Gillis should have traded Lu at the deadline so all the bedwetters would chill out.

I'm all for firing gillis but i'm also curious to see what he can do this summer, I gave him this season and upcoming offseason to see if he can right the ship, we're still in the mid - latter part of the season with the ultra low cap.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:47 pm

SKYO wrote:Gillis should have traded Lu at the deadline so all the bedwetters would chill out.

I'm all for firing gillis but i'm also curious to see what he can do this summer, I gave him this season and upcoming offseason to see if he can right the ship, we're still in the mid - latter part of the season with the ultra low cap.


To do that they would have had to tell Lou he wasn't starting in Phoenix! Yikes.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:48 pm

SKYO wrote:Gillis should have traded Lu at the deadline so all the bedwetters would chill out.

I'm all for firing gillis but i'm also curious to see what he can do this summer, I gave him this season and upcoming offseason to see if he can right the ship, we're still in the mid - latter part of the season with the ultra low cap.


Skyo, why should Gillis have traded Lu at the deadline? Because Florida is a solid playoff contender? Because Matthias and Markstrom is the answer to all of our scoring woes? Because property prices in Florida were going to go up and Luo wanted to leave to time the market properly? Because Eddie Lack is outplaying Luo and is our goalie of the future? Because Luo was disgruntled and being a locker room distraction?

Why?
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby KeyserSoze » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:51 pm

IMO this team is too good and already has too many key pieces for a full rebuild through the draft.

Let’s not forget how incredibly shitty teams like the Penguins and Blackhawks were, for a LONGGG time, before rebuilding through the draft. These teams also drafted extremely well in very strong draft years.

The Blackhawks missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 years prior to rebuilding themselves back into a cup contender. They also drafted very well with those high picks (Toews, Kane, Keith Seabrook, Byfuglien, etc)

The Penguins missed the playoffs 4 years in a row before rebuilding themselves back into contending team. They were also able to draft MAF, Gino, Sid, and Staal with their top picks.

I see our situation similar to what the Sharks have gone through, which I guess falls into the “re-tooling” category if any…

The Sharks have been able to make some pretty bold trades…Thornton, Heatley, Burns, Boyle, Havlat, etc

They have also done a good job of drafting and developing players that have made an impact…Pavelski, Setoguchi, Vlasic, Couture, Hertl, etc

As for the Canucks, the last bold trade before trading away Luongo was trading for Luongo. I supposed you could include the Schneider trade as well, but GMMG has not done well in this dept at all. Some of his semi-bold trades seemed like good deals at the time, but they have unfortunately not worked out.

As for drafting and developing players…Kesler was drafted in 2003. Edler & Schneider in 2004. Since then, they have had no drafts picks make any sort of real impact. This is a problem.



Good news is that we actually have some seemingly promising prospects and young players already in the system (Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk…Kassian, Tanev…Lack, Markstrom). The Canucks really need to hope that these players can make an impact with this team (or as part of a trade) in the near future.

They also have a lot of very good players on the roster right now.

Bottom line is that the Sedins need to be challenged and surpassed by other players in the next few years. Their time as first liners needs to eventually come to an end, and the Canucks need to find other players to start taking the lead (like the Sedins did with Bert/Naslund…like some of the young Sharks are doing with Thornton/Marleau). If you think that Kesler can be part of a line that takes over as the top unit, keep him and FFS get him some help (if he wants to be here). If he’s not the guy or if he wants out, trade him in a package for someone you think can be part of a top line 1-2 years from now.

I suppose it’s easier said than done, but no one said that managing a hockey team to sustainable success is easy :mrgreen:
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:51 pm

mathonwy wrote:
SKYO wrote:Gillis should have traded Lu at the deadline so all the bedwetters would chill out.

I'm all for firing gillis but i'm also curious to see what he can do this summer, I gave him this season and upcoming offseason to see if he can right the ship, we're still in the mid - latter part of the season with the ultra low cap.


Skyo, why should Gillis have traded Lu at the deadline? Because Florida is a solid playoff contender? Because Matthias and Markstrom is the answer to all of our scoring woes? Because property prices in Florida were going to go up and Luo wanted to leave to time the market properly? Because Eddie Lack is outplaying Luo and is our goalie of the future? Because Luo was disgruntled and being a locker room distraction?

Why?


Lol

I took it to mean he should have traded him today, not yesterday.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby SKYO » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:01 pm

^hw :thumbs: :lol:
mathonwy wrote:
Skyo, why should Gillis have traded Lu at the deadline? Because Florida is a solid playoff contender? Because Matthias and Markstrom is the answer to all of our scoring woes? Because property prices in Florida were going to go up and Luo wanted to leave to time the market properly? Because Eddie Lack is outplaying Luo and is our goalie of the future? Because Luo was disgruntled and being a locker room distraction?

Why?


Just being sassy! so the masses of canucks fans would be nicely distracted from the Lu trade rather than the non kesler trade. ha

Just sick of seeing the depressing talk of kesler not being traded, it's mind numbingly boggling.

-----

The entire team and Kesler are tired of losing...

The sad reality is the Canucks remain a one-dimensional team. They can shut you down, but they can’t score.
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Canuc ... story.html


You would think bringing up Jensen who can score and help create scoring chances would be brought up by now, cause hey if we're going to lose cause we can't score, might as well take some risks and bring him up asap.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Cornuck » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:03 pm

If we Kesler and Lack is the real deal and if the youth plays OK next year, will the rudder be fixed?

A lot ofs, ifs, but possible,
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:03 pm

mathonwy wrote:
SKYO wrote:Gillis should have traded Lu at the deadline so all the bedwetters would chill out.

I'm all for firing gillis but i'm also curious to see what he can do this summer, I gave him this season and upcoming offseason to see if he can right the ship, we're still in the mid - latter part of the season with the ultra low cap.


Skyo, why should Gillis have traded Lu at the deadline? Because Florida is a solid playoff contender? Because Matthias and Markstrom is the answer to all of our scoring woes? Because property prices in Florida were going to go up and Luo wanted to leave to time the market properly? Because Eddie Lack is outplaying Luo and is our goalie of the future? Because Luo was disgruntled and being a locker room distraction?

Why?



Same question for the Coho trade. Why did Gillis trade Coho for Kassian at the deadline? After investing three quarters of a season in Coho, Gillis deals him for Gassian who knows nothing about the Canuck systems and is a project player as well.

The true answer I believe is because the relationship between Chris Hodgson and Mike Gillis got fucked up. This is not about trading Coho. This is about trading Coho for Kassian at the trade deadline when it didn't need to happen. Kassian was just another prospect that point of time and to my knowledge, he wasn't being coveted by a tonne of teams. The correct decision would have been to hold onto Coho and do a trade at the draft. 10 bucks says that Kassian would still be available. As well, you have every single other GM at that event plus all of the draftees.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:05 pm

SKYO wrote:Just being sassy! so the masses of canucks fans would be nicely distracted from the Lu trade rather than the non kesler trade. ha
.

Damn it Skyo. I'm trying to nail luggage eyes to the proverbial cross.

You're either with me or against me!!

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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby herb » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:10 pm

I wonder if, like most fans, management and ownership are still a bit taken aback with how poorly this team has performed since December? I mean Burrows has zero goals this season, and Dank hasn't scored since December.

I know I had to shake my head when I realized that we are less than two years removed from a President's Trophy. I think this team deserves a proper evaluation and cool down period including figuring out WTF happened before trading away your best players.

I'm just not sure now is the best time for rash decisions, like trading away your second best forward. Kesler will still be worth a shit ton in the summer and next season, if that's the direction the organization wants to go.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Meds » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:18 pm

mathonwy wrote:Same question for the Coho trade. Why did Gillis trade Coho for Kassian at the deadline? After investing three quarters of a season in Coho, Gillis deals him for Gassian who knows nothing about the Canuck systems and is a project player as well.

The true answer I believe is because the relationship between Chris Hodgson and Mike Gillis got fucked up. This is not about trading Coho. This is about trading Coho for Kassian at the trade deadline when it didn't need to happen. Kassian was just another prospect that point of time and to my knowledge, he wasn't being coveted by a tonne of teams. The correct decision would have been to hold onto Coho and do a trade at the draft. 10 bucks says that Kassian would still be available. As well, you have every single other GM at that event plus all of the draftees.


Gillis traded Hodgson for obvious reasons, even if you don't want to believe the story about CoHo's attitude and his dad's continual phone calls, the hockey reasons alone were right there.

Hodgson couldn't find his own zone with a map and a GPS. When he did finally stumble into the defensive end of the game he was a complete disaster. He still is.

Vigneault always wanted a shutdown line as his 3rd line. It was one of my beefs with him. Even though things were going well and we were putting teams away by rolling 3 scoring lines, AV couldn't stomach the fact that something that wasn't "his system" was actually working. Hench Pahlsson was brought in after the trade.

With Henrik being only 32 at the time, and Kesler still 28, Hodgson was going to be stuck on that 3rd line for quite some time. We all saw his contract demand in Buffalo. No way was he getting that here, and it's a safe bet he would have held out at that point.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby mathonwy » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:22 pm

mathonwy wrote:Same question for the Coho trade. Why did Gillis trade Coho for Kassian at the deadline? After investing three quarters of a season in Coho, Gillis deals him for Gassian who knows nothing about the Canuck systems and is a project player as well.

The true answer I believe is because the relationship between Chris Hodgson and Mike Gillis got fucked up. This is not about trading Coho. This is about trading Coho for Kassian at the trade deadline when it didn't need to happen. Kassian was just another prospect that point of time and to my knowledge, he wasn't being coveted by a tonne of teams. The correct decision would have been to hold onto Coho and do a trade at the draft. 10 bucks says that Kassian would still be available. As well, you have every single other GM at that event plus all of the draftees.


Its not about the trade meds... its about the timing.
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:39 pm

Yeah, not really sure what the Nucks want to do right now. They still want to make the playoffs this year, then why trade Lou now? It's better to have a proven goalie between the pipes if u want to make the playoffs and surely they can pull a similar type deal if they decide to rebuild and move Lou in the offseason.

The thing is, I'm looking at the schedule and we play a bunch of teams that are beatable. Well, teams we used to beat consistently in the past. :lol: I think we just play the Cali teams like 3X. If our guys can wake up and pull their shit together, a wildcard playoff seed is attainable; however, going deep in the playoffs is another story. :(

Things look like a mess now, hopefully in the offseason, the Aquamen will get a dose of reality and give MG the green light to rebuild so we can move Kes, Garrison, Higgy and any other high priced veteran player with some trade value for some prospects and picks. Then we go into the Conner McDavid sweepstakes. :lol:
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Re: A Rudderless Ship

Postby black ace » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:11 pm

I really have no idea what is going on here.

Gillis comes out in the off-season and talks about getting younger and that the young players have to step up but then none make the team and even now when we have injuries in the top 6 he calls up Archibald ???? Really ????

When Gillis was hired he talked about being aggresive and bold but it takes him almost 2 years to trade Luongo and in the process loses the reason he was going to move him in the first place (Schneider).

Torts benches Luongo for the Heritage game. He comes out and says Lack gives the team the best chance to win. Gillis says it was a coaches decision then in the same interview says the trade was in the works and thats why he didnt play.

Gillis comes out yesterday and says the Luongo trade was in the works last week yet Luongos agent says the opposite and it now appears that the agent was actually the one to reach out to finally make the trade happen. The agent says that Luongo would still be a Canuck if he had played in the Heritage game.

Gillis says he will never ask a player to waive a no trade clause. Rumors start to surface about a possible Kesler trade. Kesler denies asking for a trade yet its pretty obvious that Kesler was being shopped.

Gillis finally makes the Luongo trade and says its just the first step in the rebuild. He then trades Diaz for a 5th round pick. Rumors surface that the owner has hampered trade discussion.

Luongo and Kesler openly talk about how Kesler is being shopped which means he obviously wont get traded. Basically saying the GM wont be able to pull it off. He cant.

Yeah thats a pretty average week...
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