Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

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The_Pauser
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by The_Pauser »

ClamRussel wrote: Based on MG's track record, and the Schneider deal in particular, the idea of trading Edler & Kesler scares the bejeezus out of me!
We'll end up trading him for Kyle Clifford and a 2nd round pick ;)
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by dbr »

ClamRussel wrote:Was CS *really* shopped, or was it just to a select few GMs? If I recall correctly the Oilers were mad because they had a better offer on the table. Obviously it wasn't enough for MG to send him to a divisional rival. To me this was a surprise trade in the vein of the Thornton deal. Whereas if he was truly "shopped" the return would have been higher. Other GMs said so at the time, many of who had no idea Joe was even on the market.
I had thought it was in the same vein as the Cody deal, where MG basically targeted players/assets he wanted in advance and put his player on the table to the teams in possession of something he wanted.

We've all heard the list bandied about for Hodgson, of course nobody knows what it was for Schneider (other than that they wanted a higher pick plus additional assets to move him inside the division).

But I mean if you wanted a top ten pick and the guys outside the big four are either under a big goaltender contract (Carolina, Dallas and Buffalo) or in the division (Calgary and Edmonton), do you take a hard bargain from the Devils to get the asset you want or do you take a "better" return that doesn't include what you really want?

Assets just aren't very liquid in the NHL so IMO it's better to get the one you do want rather than taking something that was never on your list just because it is "more" - I mean looking at the next teams in the '13 draft Philly had just picked up a goaltender (and wouldn't know a high end one if it bit them on the ass) and then nobody else is looking all the way down to the Isles at 15th.

So do you take the Isles 15th overall pick and miss out on your guy just because it looks better to other people that we got "a first and two seconds" or what have you? Do you trade Cody Hodgson for Kyle Clifford and what ends up being the 30th overall pick just because that is a more numerous return than Zack Kassian? Etc.
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Lancer
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Lancer »

dbr wrote:Assets just aren't very liquid in the NHL so IMO it's better to get the one you do want rather than taking something that was never on your list just because it is "more" - I mean looking at the next teams in the '13 draft Philly had just picked up a goaltender (and wouldn't know a high end one if it bit them on the ass) and then nobody else is looking all the way down to the Isles at 15th.

So do you take the Isles 15th overall pick and miss out on your guy just because it looks better to other people that we got "a first and two seconds" or what have you? Do you trade Cody Hodgson for Kyle Clifford and what ends up being the 30th overall pick just because that is a more numerous return than Zack Kassian? Etc.
The only way it makes sense to approach a trade in terms of liquid assets is if the GM is looking to get assets that someone else needs IOT trade it to them for something the GM needs. Three-way trades don't happen very often - the last one was in 2012 with Quincey and Downie involved. That said, when it comes to dealing with trading players who have NTCs, modified NTCs and the like, I think you may see more of them by virtue of the limited number of trading partners. Considering the NTCs Gillis has to deal with, I wouldn't be surprised if deals of that nature get pursued - which means we probably won't see anything until after the SCF.
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Topper
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Topper »

Hockey Widow wrote:If I remember correctly there were a number of shocked GMs when the CS trade was announced. Common thought at the time was that MG demanded a high price to trade Cory to a divisional rival and teams like Edmonton balked at that. If I remember the ask was reportedly the number one and a good young roster player. I don't recall any rumours that other GMs had huge offers on the table that were rejected, just the opposite, they rejected MG's demands. As for Toronto, I doubt MG even gave them a sniff.

If Edmonton had offered their first and Yakupov they would have CS.

If Toronto offered their 1st and a young player they may have had him. If Calgary had offered their 1st and a roster player they could have had him. Any other team that may have been interested could have offered more. The fact NJD got him tells me no one over offered. The only teams that would have had to over offer were divisional rivals and perhaps the leaves.

But I don't recall anywhere where MG left a treasure on the table rather than deal CS to a divisional team.
As DBR noted.

Don't forget, Vancouver coveted Horvat. Calgary needed a forward more than a goaltender so that left Florida, NJ and an over payment demand from Edmonton as the market for a first rounder. Philly would have been the later pick in the market for CS, but would Horvat still be on the board.
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The Brown Knight
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by The Brown Knight »

BigTuna wrote:the value of goalies is crap right now.
James Reimer's value is crap after his ridiculous meltdown against the Bruins in Game 7 last year.

Other than that though, you are correct that goalies' overall values are lower than in years' past.

In today's hockey and cap era, a suffocating team defense can overcompensate for goalies that are 'decent' but not of superstar calibre.
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Art Vandelay
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Art Vandelay »

ClamRussel wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Don Cherry stated it on Coaches Corner , well it must be true if he stated it. A small fortune eh ? How many blueberries could be purchased for a small fortune ?
Ya Cherry doesn't have any connections in hockey. Another great contribution!

So you slam my post and then back up your point with basically nothing....Why do you think Cherry is so fucking plugged into todays NHL teams. He hasn't coached since the 70's. I guess Orland Kurtenbach has quite a few sources htat he could tap into for insider info as well.

Cherry is a fucking neanderthal who barely even understands the way the game is played today.
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Hockey Widow
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Hockey Widow »

Some players commenting today that they have been told all the internet rumours are just that, rumours. No truth to the speculation that players with NTC about to be moved. Told the Canucks do not anticipate any big deadline day deals, it is up to the players here to get the job done and secure a playoff spot, depending upon how season ends the summer may see big changes. Consistent with what they were saying during the last road trip in that they were told not to expect the team to make any big changes at this point. Of course the caveat is always, if a deal comes along that makes us better today and in the future, blah, blah, blah.

Sounds like the Canucks want to be active but perhaps don't have the deals on the table that make sense. Given that the water boy has said missing the playoffs is not an option I wonder if MG is about to gamble that he has the horses to make the dance. Sounds like if the team can make the playoffs then MG may get a pass in that we are well positioned to use injuries as the excuse for not be able to do more than that.

Anyway, word I'm hearing is that the players have been told the internet chatter is not true, for what it's worth.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Unless you get a deal for Edler or Kesler that knocks your socks off Eye Bags may as we'll wait until the summer.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by SKYO »

thnx HW, translation MG wants overpayment again. :|
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by sagebrush »

Almost everyone wants to be overpaid.

Some recognize investments that pay off down the road.
Less Canucks embarrassment please.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by $lacker »

I don't believe what Gillis is selling - he'd like to make trades but he can't come across as desperate because the GM's in this league already enjoy toying with their former agent friend. Wonder what the Bodog odds would be on Gillis doing nothing and the Nux missing the playoffs followed by a swift firing of said GM.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Hockey Widow »

It's so hard to say at this point. The excuse we are being sold is that the number of injuries are not only devastating but precedent setting. While I buy that we have been decimated by injuries I don't buy the precedent setting line. It misses the systemic problem, lack of depth.

I truly get how injuries have played havoc with the team but this ignores what so many have been saying, in various degrees, since the Boston series. It also ignores that MG has been promising an infusion of youth since then and has failed in so many ways to address that. It fails to acknowledge that lack of scoring and dependable secondary support for the twins has been a historical problem.

Further it ignores the fact that we are aging fast. Injuries do matter but don't ask us to pull the blinders tight to the other issues.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Topper »

Hockey Widow wrote:It's so hard to say at this point. The excuse we are being sold is that the number of injuries are not only devastating but precedent setting. While I buy that we have been decimated by injuries I don't buy the precedent setting line. It misses the systemic problem, lack of depth.
It also misses the fact that the slide began before the injuries began piling up.

The slide began with the end of the soft December schedule. Then there was the ill conceived decision to play tough on the Cali road trip......

I go back to questioning what the hell GMMG was selling the Aqualungs going into the season. I wasn't alone here in thinking the season was going to be a rough one. The emergence of Santorelli and Stanton eased the pain, but it was obvious the team would have to fight for a playoff spot given realignment and cap constraints.

Are the records of Minnesota, Dallas and Phoenix truly that shocking? Did GMMG still believe his line up was of the same calibre as Chicago, St Louis, Anaheim, LA and San Jose?
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Chef Boi RD »

$lacker wrote:I don't believe what Gillis is selling - he'd like to make trades but he can't come across as desperate because the GM's in this league already enjoy toying with their former agent friend.
This is why you never hire an asshole players agent whom every GM in the league hates to be your General Manager. Is it no wonder he struggles building relationships with the GM fraternity? Not to mention, throwing the previous GM under the bus at his press conference hiring.

Aquamarine shit the bed here by hire Eye Bags in the first place.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Topper wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:It's so hard to say at this point. The excuse we are being sold is that the number of injuries are not only devastating but precedent setting. While I buy that we have been decimated by injuries I don't buy the precedent setting line. It misses the systemic problem, lack of depth.
It also misses the fact that the slide began before the injuries began piling up.

The slide began with the end of the soft December schedule. Then there was the ill conceived decision to play tough on the Cali road trip......

I go back to questioning what the hell GMMG was selling the Aqualungs going into the season. I wasn't alone here in thinking the season was going to be a rough one. The emergence of Santorelli and Stanton eased the pain, but it was obvious the team would have to fight for a playoff spot given realignment and cap constraints.

Are the records of Minnesota, Dallas and Phoenix truly that shocking? Did GMMG still believe his line up was of the same calibre as Chicago, St Louis, Anaheim, LA and San Jose?
Strange, last year everyone blamed Alain Vigneault for the ills of the club. Fast forward to this season, it's quite obvious that the coach isn't the problem, but the coach Gillis hired this year - John 'Laforge' Torterella, and his staff...seemingly 'ARE' a big part of the problem. Another deft, clinical display of great decision making by our fearless leader - Mike the players agent Gillis

It's all about the process

I see Torts/Laforges old team - The Rangers are playing decent hockey with a team of one guy - Nash, a goalie - Lundqvist and a bunch of average players.
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