The Fork in the Road

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What road do you think the Canucks should, or need to, take?

Major rebuild
6
15%
Minor rebuild
5
13%
Significant retooling (5 or more roster spots)
14
36%
Minor retooling (4 or less roster spots)
10
26%
Minor tweak (this is a contender with some minor depth issues)
4
10%
 
Total votes : 39

Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby dbr » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:25 am

Strangelove wrote:These "two seasons" you are referring to amount to just 75 games played Dave.


75 GP for Burrows. 107 games in which the team needed contributions from everyone if it was going to win consistently.

I would point out that Burrows was coming back from serious injury for a good chunk of those 75 games.


Sure. Fair enough. If we're going to give everyone as much leash as our bleeding hearts lead us to believe they deserve, then sure.

But it reaches a point where a franchise can no longer make moves based on good will and past glory. Are we there with Burrows? I don't know. Personally I doubt his trade value is high (with a season where he's paid $5m cash left on the books) so I could see taking a gamble that he will be neither injured, nor "coming back from serious injury" nor any other excuse for middling-to-poor production for his cap hit.

Mason Raymond was recovering from a serious injury when the Canucks took him to cut down arbitration, too.

I would also point out that he led the team in goal-scoring last season (hey, he's usually right up there).

This despite the fact he spent a good chunk of that season away from the Sedins.

Sure his production is going to tail off in his old age.


I don't know if leading the 2012-13 Canucks in goal scoring is a feather in anyone's cap, but he was pretty adequate last year. Certainly well worth the $2m spent.

But I'm looking for a sucker who'll bet he won't improve on this particular season going forward.


Keep looking - I don't know of anyone off hand who cares about the content of the posts attached to their name who'd make a bet like that. (So, try RoyalDude?)

If I'm Gillis, I bet on Burrows turning it around.

Hey if he loses that bet, he's still got one of the best penalty-killers in the game on his 3rd line.

Sure he might be one of the highest paid 3rd-liners in the league, but what's a million dollars or so.

Personally I'd be okay with that, but I don't think Gillis loses that bet...


Well what's "turning it around" though, right? You can bet on Burrows "turning it around" (ie. blowing his 0 goal pace this year out of the water) and still lose another bet wherein Burrows has to deliver sufficient value for his paycheque.

With this player I'm of the mind that "sure his production is going to tail off in his old age" and that he's certainly been a key part of the team in the past - I doubt his trade value is anywhere near what it would have to be for him to be the type of guy you deal to kickstart a rebuild anyway, but if this team is looking to address some major issues and needs cap space to do it, Alex Burrows at $4.5m with declining production is probably pretty replaceable when you have guys like Chris Higgins and Jannik Hansen making nearly half as much and offering similar contributions.

Furthermore if you're looking to get bigger and younger in the offseason, Mr. "sure his production is going to tail off," at six years older than the league average for forwards, 1" shorter and 15 lbs lighter, sure seems like low hanging fruit to me.

He's hanging a lot lower than our other smallish old guys anyway.

Ultimately, my bet: unless he's one the guys who waives his NTC, Burrows is here next year and the team is betting he bounces back high enough to contribute meaningfully. Hell if they can find a way to address the top six I'd love to have Alex as the two-way conscience of a third line featuring a promising young player or two.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:59 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Yes i need to settle down I'm turning purple with rage. :lol:
I am no bandwagoner mathony. Especially when it comes to this player. I have never been a huge fan.


I can vouch for Blob on this. Him and I have had several conversations over the years about the hair pulling (2X), crotch kneeing, biting, squeeky voiced sunovabitch. I'm not a huge fan either. I can tolerate his schtick when he's putting up goals and blocking shots, but not anymore.

I've seen enough. Dude is about to turn thirty-fucking-three. His eye-hand coordination and skating were never great to begin with, and these things are going downhill first. Get what you can for him now and pencil in Shinkaruk or somebody young for next year to take his place.

Can I also point out that this team had the #1 PK for much of this year when Burrows was not in the lineup. I don't buy this notion that Burrows is a 'great' 3rd line guy who would really help out our team at $4.5M. Key players in the success of the PK this year have been much lesser paid guys like Richardson, Higgins, Santorelli and Hansen.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:20 am

dbr wrote:Ultimately, my bet: ... Burrows is here next year and the team is betting he bounces back high enough to contribute meaningfully. Hell if they can find a way to address the top six I'd love to have Alex as the two-way conscience of a third line featuring a promising young player or two.


I'm glad to hear you say that Dave.

From the summer of 2008 until this past summer, Burrows has been on a 29 goal pace.

All the while killing penalties with aplomb.

Over that time frame he has been basically been a staple on the #3 PP unit.

Without checking, I'd be shocked if he hasn't led the team in even-strength goals over that time frame.

He drives the opposition to distraction and scores clutch goals.

He gives 100%... all the time.

Agreed, I'd love to see him mentoring younguns on the 3rd line.

I'd bet AB could score 20-25 goals per year on the 3rd line while remaining one of the best PKers in the league.

And he'd CONTINUE TO score more than his share of those HUGE goals.

If I were looking for a whipping boy like some folks around here, I'd at least have the balls to go after $7m Dan.

But hey I'm not looking for a whipping boy, just a minor tweak. :mex:

Hmmm why does that sound like something dirty...

.
Last edited by Strangelove on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:40 am

herb wrote:I don't buy this notion that Burrows is a 'great' 3rd line guy who would really help out our team at $4.5M.


I think everyone agrees he would be overpaid as a 3rd line guy at that salary.

Having said that...

None of those guys you mentioned are as good as Burrows on the PK when the game is on the line.

None of those guys you mentioned have anywhere near the proven goal-scoring ability of Burrows.

There are reasons Burrows received that contract while those guys you mentioned have not.

Burrows is having a horrible year thus far, but he's been awesome for your Canucks for many years.

Maybe we should change the name of this thread to "Knife in the Back".
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:46 am

herb wrote:I can tolerate his schtick when he's putting up goals and blocking shots, but not anymore.


Ummm he broke his foot blocking a shot on a 2-minute 5 on 3.

The job he did on that particular 2-man advantage was the best PK performance I've seen this year.

I'm waiting very patiently until he goes on a goal-scoring streak, driving you Burr-haters back into the closet.


GO ALEX GO!!!
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:51 am

Strangelove wrote:Maybe we should change the name of this thread to "Knife in the Back".


LOL

I think the point is that sometimes you have to know when to move on.

Proposing that we may have reached that point with Burrows is not knifing him in the back. It's just the cold hard realization of the business side of the NHL. The same decisions were made not too long ago with fan favorites Markus Naslund and Trevor Linden. The time with Burrows may be now because if he continues this steep downward trend he will become untradable. He may have value at the deadline, and I think it would be totally fair to shop him around and see what kind of return he could garner.

I like what Burrows brings in terms of effort, but I think that can be replaced at a much more affordable rate in free agency. We may be able to build a decent team and insulate a rapidly aging Daniel Sedin, but I don't think we can build around a rapidly aging Daniel Sedin and a rapidly aging Alex Burrows. That could be too much mid-30's mediocre, expensive crap at a time we need some rejuvenation.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:05 am

It's way too soon to give up on Burr.

Besides, 2 years from now he'll be making $3m in actual salary in an $80m cap-max world.

A $4.5m cap hit in a $64m cap-floor world.

Trade him in 2 years if you must Herbert.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:21 am

Change is good my man!

Embrace change!

Out with the old and in with the new I say.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Topper » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:35 am

Strangelove wrote:I would also point out that he led the team in goal-scoring last season

I believe you'd sworn off last season's performances in leaf la la land..........

butt not with Burrrrrrr?
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:53 pm

Topper wrote:
Strangelove wrote:I would also point out that he led the team in goal-scoring last season


I believe you'd sworn off last season's performances in leaf la la land..........

butt not with Burrrrrrr?


Well you see, my pal Dave besmirched Burr's production in last year's abomination of a season.

He belittled Burr's relative contribution in last year's aberration!

Behold, our bedfellow's behavior was that of a befuddled bedeviled bedwetting beggar on the road to bedlam!

So yeah, the Great Strangelove is here to help with dat dere...
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:55 pm

herb wrote:Change is good my man!

Embrace change!


:shock:

Please tell me you ain't one of those goddamned commie pinkos Herb!
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:11 pm

Strangelove wrote: :shock:

Please tell me you ain't one of those goddamned commie pinkos Herb!


Nope. Like a home renovation I want to see the old, weathered, rotten shit torn out and replaced with new good shit.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:25 pm

Burrows is going to make you eat a lot of your words in this thread Herbert.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby herb » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:40 pm

Strangelove wrote:Burrows is going to make you eat a lot of your words in this thread Herbert.


That would be great and I would be happy to - but I don't expect to.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Postby Topper » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:52 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Topper wrote:
Strangelove wrote:I would also point out that he led the team in goal-scoring last season


I believe you'd sworn off last season's performances in leaf la la land..........

butt not with Burrrrrrr?


Well you see, my pal Dave besmirched Burr's production in last year's abomination of a season.

He belittled Burr's relative contribution in last year's aberration!

Behold, our bedfellow's behavior was that of a befuddled bedeviled bedwetting beggar on the road to bedlam!

So yeah, the Great Strangelove is here to help with dat dere...

DBR may be your bed fellow.

I don't have fellows in my bed.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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