The Fork in the Road

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Post Reply

What road do you think the Canucks should, or need to, take?

Major rebuild
6
15%
Minor rebuild
5
13%
Significant retooling (5 or more roster spots)
14
36%
Minor retooling (4 or less roster spots)
10
26%
Minor tweak (this is a contender with some minor depth issues)
4
10%
 
Total votes: 39

dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by dbr »

Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate Mëds...
Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Mëds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 13325
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Meds »

dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate Mëds...
Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Mëds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.
Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.

UDL, you just described Dion Phaneuf. Except Edler is less consistent. Granted, he makes a lot less too. Edler has had 2011-12, 2013 (albeit shortened), and half of 2013-14. He hasn't found "his groove" again. I also don't deny that if he found "his groove again" that he would be a really good defenseman.....I doubt he's a Norris candidate, but he would certainly be a top 15 all-round guy in the league on the blueline. But that's just it, he hasn't found it and it's looking like he never will.
User avatar
vic
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:29 pm

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by vic »

herb wrote:Kesler is the second to last "core" guy I'd like to see traded behind Henrik. He still has several years of high quality play in him, and should really be the anchor we build around going forward.
Since Henrik went down, Kesler's been given the opportunity to seize that #1C spot. He's sucked ass in the process.

Yes, the whole team has been sucking ass recently, but your #1C is suppose to make others around him better - instead, the whole team has just looked lost since 33 has been out.

Everyone here knows what Henrik was able to accomplish as as a 29 year old in the league - without Daniel for almost a quarter of the season. Ryan Kesler as a 29 year old is on pace for less points that Henrik had assists at the same age.

Kesler isn't good enough to be a #1C in this league - he's proved it over the past few weeks.
User avatar
Cousin Strawberry
MVP
MVP
Posts: 26075
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Mëds wrote:
dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate Mëds...
Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Mëds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.
Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.

UDL, you just described Dion Phaneuf. Except Edler is less consistent. Granted, he makes a lot less too. Edler has had 2011-12, 2013 (albeit shortened), and half of 2013-14. He hasn't found "his groove" again. I also don't deny that if he found "his groove again" that he would be a really good defenseman.....I doubt he's a Norris candidate, but he would certainly be a top 15 all-round guy in the league on the blueline. But that's just it, he hasn't found it and it's looking like he never will.
Ok maybe but...if we traded him to Detroit, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that coach Babcock pushes the right buttons and has him contending for the Norris with 2 years.

Edler obviously wont respond to the Torturella bullshit. It's a good coach who recognizes when to scream and when to encourage. JT only has one tool in his box and it's chasing our #1 d-man right out the door. The sooner he hits the road the better IMESHO
If you need air...call it in
User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by herb »

vic wrote:Kesler isn't good enough to be a #1C in this league - he's proved it over the past few weeks.
Henrik is still around and Kesler has proven to be valuable and versatile as a winger as well. I'd much rather have Horvat/Gaunce/Fox develop behind Henrik and Kesler than be thrown into top six roles they are probably not ready for.
User avatar
Meds
MVP
MVP
Posts: 13325
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Meds »

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Mëds wrote:
Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.

UDL, you just described Dion Phaneuf. Except Edler is less consistent. Granted, he makes a lot less too. Edler has had 2011-12, 2013 (albeit shortened), and half of 2013-14. He hasn't found "his groove" again. I also don't deny that if he found "his groove again" that he would be a really good defenseman.....I doubt he's a Norris candidate, but he would certainly be a top 15 all-round guy in the league on the blueline. But that's just it, he hasn't found it and it's looking like he never will.
Ok maybe but...if we traded him to Detroit, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that coach Babcock pushes the right buttons and has him contending for the Norris with 2 years.

Edler obviously wont respond to the Torturella bullshit. It's a good coach who recognizes when to scream and when to encourage. JT only has one tool in his box and it's chasing our #1 d-man right out the door. The sooner he hits the road the better IMESHO
I put Edler in a class with a guy like Niklas Kronwall.....Has Babcock turned Kronwall into a Norris candidate? Nope. I don't think Edler has the mental game to really take that next step. It has been my knock on him all along. He's got the physical tools and the skill, but he doesn't have the application.....especially under pressure.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
MVP
MVP
Posts: 31105
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Lol at getting Johansen for Kesler . Chris maybe but not Ryan
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
User avatar
Cousin Strawberry
MVP
MVP
Posts: 26075
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Mëds wrote: I put Edler in a class with a guy like Niklas Kronwall.....Has Babcock turned Kronwall into a Norris candidate? Nope. I don't think Edler has the mental game to really take that next step. It has been my knock on him all along. He's got the physical tools and the skill, but he doesn't have the application.....especially under pressure.
http://thehockeywriters.com/niklas-kron ... ophy-snub/
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1777 ... 3-14-award
http://www.newsrt.us/news/writer-red-wi ... 38532.html
Uhhhhhhh...wrong. He is most certainly a leading contender...
If you need air...call it in
User avatar
Cousin Strawberry
MVP
MVP
Posts: 26075
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Lol at getting Johansen for Kesler . Chris maybe but not Ryan
Before this season...I absolutely think you could've gotten him out of there for Kesler. Now....not so much

It was more of an example of the type of deal that could theoretically improve the team where we would give up Kelser. Find a different example now...say Strome maybe? Its the type of player vs that specific player
If you need air...call it in
dbr
CC Legend
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by dbr »

Mëds wrote:
dbr wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Edler isn't as bad as you're making him out be at all. What's with the hate? The guy has a cannon, is by far and a way our heaviest hitter, makes exceptional tape to tape stretch passes out of his zone and if he could find his groove again could be in the running for a Norris. I don't understand the hate Mëds...
Not going to try to explain it, but if you can't tell from the fact that Mëds is basically making a bunch of shit up (Edler hates playing under Tortorella, for example) in that post, there's no point trying to discuss this player with this poster.
Have you even looked at Edler on the bench after screwing up? Any time Torts lets him know he can't be screwing up the guy completely sags and his game sucks for the rest of the night. He's given it to other guys on the bench too, but none have looked like a whipped dog as much as Edler has. So, not making that up.
So Torts yells at Edler on the bench and then for the rest of the game the jubilant, charismatic dynamo we all know Alexander Edler to be is gone - replaced by some quiet, bland giant I guess - and according to noted Edler critic Mëds (who thinks he plays like shit most of the time) he plays like shit too.

Gotcha. ;)

You can take umbrage with "making shit up" but the fact is you're seeing what you want to see in Edler's response; making shit up when drawing meaning from real life events as opposed to making the events up themselves. If you want to quibble about semantics fine but here's someone else's take on Edler's response to this brutal "North American coaching," which I guess comes in stark contracts to the effete European style of coaching preferred by people like Alain Vigneault, Scott Arniel and Jeff Truitt..
Tortorella's Rant Gets Edler Going

Edler got an earful from Tortorella Saturday. The coach went into full finger-poke rage mode on the bench in Madison Square Garden.

Edler was benched and after the game had a long sit-down with assistant coach Mike Sullivan before Sunday's game in Raleigh.

If you were concerned Edler is fragile because he's soft-spoken, or meek because he's not oozing with personality and cockiness, you may have been surprised with how he responded.

[Did Botch write this for you Mëds? :look: ]

The Canucks needed a good game from Edler, and they got it. He was a plus-2, had three hits and finished with the second best Corsi (the number of shots directed toward the net while the player is on the ice) on the team at 55.6 per cent overall.

"I love this guy," Tortorella said.

"That's where I get angrier with players. It's how much I know it's there. "(Losing it) is something I don't want to do. I really don't. I'm not preparing myself to do it.

"He responded the right way. He is a really good player that we need at a different level."

Edler said he took the benching, and the raging coach, in stride.

"It's not personal," Edler said. "We need everyone to play (well) to get the win.

"That's Torts' style. He's very emotional on the bench. It's to get you going to help the team."

..

"I felt better (Sunday), I tried to make some stronger, quicker plays," Edler said. "Nothing too much, just trust myself that I'm good enough to play, instead of hesitating."
Vader
CC 2nd Team All-Star
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:37 pm

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Vader »

When you come to a fork in the road....Take it
User avatar
ClamRussel
CC Legend
Posts: 3992
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by ClamRussel »

Edler is a pretty special Dman that doesn't come around too often. He's not perfect and screws up alot for sure...but if he ever put it together he'd easily be a Norris candidate, much like Kronwall. In fact, I agree if he was in Detroit they'd make a formidable pair. Do we trade him? Only if we're getting a race horse up front. Edler hasn't had a great year so the return might be less than it would have a couple of yrs ago....I dunno, I think it would leave a gap in our blueline. He's only 27 and has lots of miles left. I believe he can come out of this and will rebound. That said, its not that I'm opposed to trading him but it better bring something special back in return otherwise you don't do it. If he does get traded for prospects & picks you might as well blow the whole team up.
"Once a King, always a King" -Mike Murphy
User avatar
2Fingers
MVP
MVP
Posts: 7661
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:47 am

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by 2Fingers »

ClamRussel wrote:Edler is a pretty special Dman that doesn't come around too often. He's not perfect and screws up alot for sure...but if he ever put it together he'd easily be a Norris candidate, much like Kronwall. In fact, I agree if he was in Detroit they'd make a formidable pair. Do we trade him? Only if we're getting a race horse up front. Edler hasn't had a great year so the return might be less than it would have a couple of yrs ago....I dunno, I think it would leave a gap in our blueline. He's only 27 and has lots of miles left. I believe he can come out of this and will rebound. That said, its not that I'm opposed to trading him but it better bring something special back in return otherwise you don't do it. If he does get traded for prospects & picks you might as well blow the whole team up.
And if pigs had wings they could fly.

Edler is 27, what we see is what we get.

He will never be considered a Norris candidate, nor is he a legit #1 D like other teams have. He is a good D man but that is about it.
User avatar
ClamRussel
CC Legend
Posts: 3992
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:50 am
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by ClamRussel »

Reefer2 wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:Edler is a pretty special Dman that doesn't come around too often. He's not perfect and screws up alot for sure...but if he ever put it together he'd easily be a Norris candidate, much like Kronwall. In fact, I agree if he was in Detroit they'd make a formidable pair. Do we trade him? Only if we're getting a race horse up front. Edler hasn't had a great year so the return might be less than it would have a couple of yrs ago....I dunno, I think it would leave a gap in our blueline. He's only 27 and has lots of miles left. I believe he can come out of this and will rebound. That said, its not that I'm opposed to trading him but it better bring something special back in return otherwise you don't do it. If he does get traded for prospects & picks you might as well blow the whole team up.
And if pigs had wings they could fly.

Edler is 27, what we see is what we get.

He will never be considered a Norris candidate, nor is he a legit #1 D like other teams have. He is a good D man but that is about it.
I said "if" he put it all together. He's not an elite blueliner but he's far better than he's been the past year or so. I think he's got more to show. Lots of people said the same thing about the Sedins at 27 and they improved at 29/30.
"Once a King, always a King" -Mike Murphy
User avatar
Aaronp18
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4670
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:36 pm

Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Aaronp18 »

Reefer2 wrote: And if pigs had wings they could fly.

Edler is 27, what we see is what we get.

He will never be considered a Norris candidate, nor is he a legit #1 D like other teams have. He is a good D man but that is about it.
Not that I'm saying this will happen but Lidstrom didn't win his first Norris until he was 31 I believe.

There is room for improvement without question. He is NOT going to reach Lidstrom status, that goes without saying, but he will likely get better the next few years, should he stay healthy that is.
Post Reply