The Fork in the Road

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What road do you think the Canucks should, or need to, take?

Major rebuild
6
15%
Minor rebuild
5
13%
Significant retooling (5 or more roster spots)
14
36%
Minor retooling (4 or less roster spots)
10
26%
Minor tweak (this is a contender with some minor depth issues)
4
10%
 
Total votes: 39

Boston Canucker
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Boston Canucker »

There's an opportunity here with depth on defense (the likes of Tanev, Corrado, and Stanton provide some good young depth here) to trade out 2 of the more senior D-men (take your pick which) for younger forwards or high draft picks, and start to bring our present young forwards along. I like seeing Schroeder play, but he's looked better, more confident, on the ice with each game. I'd like to see Jensen up at some point. It's the time to trade from strength, D, and pivot things. I agree we don't want the Flames model, no delusion about contending that involves trading prospects/picks for 30 year olds like Vanek; maybe for a Courtourier type, young forward, or of course Kane, but it's got to be more with 2-5 years in mind, not this one.
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SKYO
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by SKYO »

dbr wrote:Maybe you also have room to sign a guy like Olli Jokinen or David Legwand, I mean it would be great for this team to get younger but if we have the room to add a player like that then you have to make the big commitment and just go for it.
I say overpay a bit for ONE top tier scorer via trade or in the offseason, if ya can't sign one of Vanek or Stastny then screw most of the 2nd tier UFA's.

We have enough overpaid 2nd/3rd liners like Booth and Burrows.

These guys are taking $8.75M of cap space this season while having a combined total of 5 goals, almost $9M in cap for 17 points combined for both after almost 3/4 of the season gone by.

Almost NINE MILLION DOLLARS for nothing, damn.

If they both had 15 goals a piece at this point in the season, as their paid to do, we'd probably be way up in the standings.

Jokinen is poison, his teams never make the playoffs, Legwand is more suited for a team like the Hawks, who just need a piece for uber depth, I'd much prefer getting that wicked sniper for our 2nd line somehow, someway.

Gaunce, Horvat or maybe even Fox I bet anything one of them if given a chance and some patience would be primo for our 3rd line center spot next season.
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rats19
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by rats19 »

Very tough going right now for everyone. The faithful, the fed up, the whole works of us. We have to have been the worst team in hockey so far in 2014.

See how thing shake out over the break and the trade deadline..
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Lancer
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Lancer »

When it comes to minor/major re-tool/rebuild, it comes down to who on the team can successfully play the way Torts and (now) Gillis want them to play. Doesn't matter how many of what size of salary needs to go or stay. That's why I voted for a minor rebuild because this team still isn't big nor mentally/physically tough enough to play the way the organization wants them to play.

Who among the regulars can play Torts hockey on a contending team:
-Higgins (more as a 3rd liner who can spell in the top 6 than anything more)
-Kesler (provided he is not THE guy, as we've found out)
-Kassian
-Richardson (in a bottom-6 role)
-Sestito
-Bieksa
-Stanton
-Tanev

Who obviously can't:
-The Sedins
-Hansen
-Edler

The ones we just don't know about:
-Burrows (This year is an aberration/abomination) - though he's a tweener
-Santorelli - another tweener
-Booth - another tweener due to his more inspired and physical play of late
-Hamhuis - a tweener because either he is playing way too many minutes or is just not up for the system Torts employs for his blueliners
-Diaz - Too early to tell and he's a UFA anyway
-Weber
-Dalpe

I'm inclined to put Hamhuis among the Torts players because I think his problems stem from the amount of ice time he's been eating lately. I had Booth among the non-Torts types but if he continues this play of speed and hitting, you never know. Burrows cannot keep playing with that shield and hope for another point. Thank God he gets it off at the end of the month.

Otherwise, Gillis has to move those non-Torts players out for future help. He has to figure out who among the undecided must go and get what he can for them. The kicker is the most important players are among the ones who obviously cannot succeed on a Torts team. I think we may as well resign ourselves that we are stuck with the Twins until the end of their contracts. As for the rest, ship them out. I also say, if Lou isn't all-in on Vancouver, ship him out when his window comes up and put our faith in The Stork.

My only concern is where the goals will come from? Will this become the Minnesota Wild of the West Coast? No matter what Gillis says about building a team on mucker goals from in-tight, unless he ices a squad full of 6'4" 230-lb monsters who throw D-men around to play catch in the crease and run goaltenders into the IR, I don't know that's going to get the team in the long run.

This team needs to be remade in Torts' image, but I think Torts needs to take a long look at his record after Tampa and think of some wrinkles to his game to get more offense out of the squad.
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Chef Boi RD »

That's brilliant, design a team to fit the needs of a moron coach.
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JonT21
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by JonT21 »

givemeda411 wrote:So basically....

Daniel Sedin / Henrik Sedin / Zack Kassian
Hunter Shinkaruk / Bo Horvat / Ryan Kesler
Chris Higgins / Brendan Gaunce / Mike Santorelli
Tom Sestito / Brad Richardson / Jordan Schroeder

Dan Hamhuis / Kevin Bieksa
Jason Garrison / Chris Tanev
Ryan Stanton / Frank Corrado

Roberto Luongo
Eddie Lack
so we are gunna get rid of edler, burrows, and hansen for nothing?
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Chef Boi RD »

rats19 wrote: See how thing shake out over the break and the trade deadline..
A word of advice, don't expect much of a change.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Chef Boi RD »

dbr wrote: Maybe you also have room to sign a guy like Olli Jokinen or David Legwand, I mean it would be great for this team to get younger but if we have the room to add a player like that then you have to make the big commitment and just go for it.
Serious dbr? Jokinen is probably the most well travelled, 9 lives journeyman in the game and you want that waste of time and money here?

David Legwand is dumber than Booth, but if you want dumb and dumber here then I see your point.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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rats19
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by rats19 »

I don't expect anything...but I do hope for change :roll:
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Diehard1 »

RoyalDude wrote:
rats19 wrote: See how thing shake out over the break and the trade deadline..
A word of advice, don't expect much of a change.
I would tend to agree, I don't see much happening at the deadline. Too many guys have been here too long, too much baggage to make a quick trade. If they miss the playoffs, which I think is a given without major changes, we will see plenty of player movement in the summer but not at the deadline.

We will see what happens. Would really like to see some new blood but I'm not holding my breath.
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Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Diehard1 wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
rats19 wrote: See how thing shake out over the break and the trade deadline..
A word of advice, don't expect much of a change.
I would tend to agree, I don't see much happening at the deadline. Too many guys have been here too long, too much baggage to make a quick trade. If they miss the playoffs, which I think is a given without major changes, we will see plenty of player movement in the summer but not at the deadline.

We will see what happens. Would really like to see some new blood but I'm not holding my breath.
Which is why Aquamarine needs to fire Gillis, clearly he is not fit for the situation we are in

I only see Hansen and Higgins as being tradeable at the deadline. Edler would only waive if it were a team like the Red Wings, same goes for all the other NTC's. it's a fucked situation, the corner Gillis has backed himself into. We are surrounded by young up and coming teams and we are getting old, a quick rebuild is a must, do not want to see us keep chipping away at our farm in chase if Lord Stanley when we are nowhere near in that position.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by SKYO »

Just buy Burrows out, he's done, he's finished, let some other sucker team pay him $4M-$5M per in UFA.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Skyo, I understand it was a tough night for the Laffs, Nonis, Raymond haters last night, but aren't you being a little bit harsh? Aren't you pointing the blame fingers in the wrong direction? Shouldn't those yellow stained cigarette fingers be pointing at Mike Gillis and Torterella. It is quite obvious that AV and Raymond were not the problem last year as we see the team has digressed even further since. Is there no sympathizing with the two major injuries that Burrows has endured this season. We have seen players like Raymond battle back from serious, near career ending back injuries, there is no reason why Burrows cannot do the same.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

SKYO wrote:Just buy Burrows out, he's done, he's finished, let some other sucker team pay him $4M-$5M per in UFA.

Amen Skyo. After watching that bitch pull hair again last night I hope he goes goaless the rest of the season. Then I want to hear Eye Bags' fucking excuse for not buying him out.

Burrows is a fucking loser. The sooner he's gone the better.
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Re: The Fork in the Road

Post by The_Pauser »

Hockey Widow wrote:Yes, I think the SJS model is a better one to follow. Like it or not the Twins are with us for 4 more years. We have made that commitment and so have they. We must, finally, build secondary scoring around them. Everything SKYO said is bang on.

It was what MG said was going to happen this season. OK, it didn't happen for whatever reasons. But he simply cannot use the injury excuse this year. He cannot say he needs one more season with this core to see what they can do when healthy. The problems are more systemic than that. Injuries unmask that. Yes, injuries certainly do matter but it really is more than that with this team.


The multiple NTC will not pose a problem. Only a select few players have a NTC to ensure they get to stay in that city. Most have one to get to control where they go and when they go. So a NTC won't prevent us from being able to move a player but it will impact the number of trading partners and the time of year a deal can be done. In that respect MG will be hand cuffed, but he will be able to move players should he choose.

Making changes to the core is not just about getting full value back. It is also about changing the culture, creating cap space, creating roster spots.

I think we have a very strong nucleus on defence so just one big change there. Our goaltending is above average, so we are fine there. It is the combination up front that we need to really tear down and build back up.
We have secondary scoring around them. In fact, "secondary" scoring is about the only scoring we have been getting. The Sedins have been downright awful since they signed their contracts, and Daniel in particular hasn't scored a goal in a quarter of a season. We aren't going anywhere with them as our first line, and I doubt we go anywhere with them as our second line given how much they make. If Gillis isn't willing to explore moving them then the next 4 years are going to be extremely dark and gloomy.

This team needs a major rebuild. The core is dead, and clearly not good enough. It was easy to predict that this would be a bad year for the Canucks, and I accurately predicted this back in the Summer when all Gillis did was bring in Brad Richardson as his big UFA signing. Calling Torts "the big re-set" was just silly, and I hope fans call him out on it this year.

The multiple NTC's are a major problem because they don't allow Gillis to move any meaningful players. You can't expect players like Hansen and Higgins to bring back a large return that will change this team. In order to change our forwards in some meaningful way we need to be moving players like the Sedins, Kesler and Burrows. That's our core up front, and they are the reasons why this team isn't performing this season.

Defensively we have been a complete mess. In one or two periods we'll look good, then they'll break down and all hell will break loose. Edler with his team worst -23 clearly cannot handle the pressure of being a number 1 defenseman. If he still has value like we think he does, he needs to go. Hopefully we can get a legitimate top 6 forward with youth for him, otherwise it will be a tough pill to swallow.

Assuming the Sedins, Kesler and Burrows are all, or mostly, traded, then Luongo should be traded as well. No sense keeping an aging goalie around when we're doing a youth movement. I love Luongo, but it doesn't make sense. Bring in youth up front, continue to introduce youth on our back end, and ease Lack into a starters role (perhaps a 50/50 timeshare going forward with a veteran goalie who will be happy with such a role, and we know Luongo clearly wouldn't be).

Also, I have no problem with Tortorella as of right now. People want to scapegoat him, but he's not to blame. It's not his fault the roster he inherited just wasn't very good.
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