City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:22 pm

herb wrote:The good news is that Schroeder was our best forward.

The bad news is that Schroeder was our best forward.


True story.

herb wrote:Kesler continues to disappoint. He’s a great supporting player, but clearly cannot carry a team. The same goes for Daniel.


How do you figure regarding Kesler? He's our leading goal scorer, and nobody (around here anyways) has ever considered him to be a center who can carry a top scoring line, let alone a team. For years the conversations regarding Kesler have revolved around the need to get him a winger that can set him up and he has chemistry with. So why are you disappointed with him?

As for Daniel, he hasn't been the same player since Keith's flying elbow. Everyone expected him to be the same player as Hank, and to step up the same way that Henrik did the year Danny was hurt. Nobody considers that when Henrik stepped up while Daniel was out the team was better, had more depth, was playing with much more confidence, and in a league where the officials were still calling the game the way that they were supposed to coming out of the 2004-05 lockout. At this point I really don't think Henrik is any more effective than Daniel were their places reversed right now.

herb wrote:Kassian wiped away two weeks’ worth of good work with one lazy effort.


No he didn't. He had a less than stellar game and made one dumb play after showing incredible hustle to get back, besides, he tried to put the puck up the boards, usually the safe play. On top of that the entire team stunk out the joint last night, so his two weeks worth of good work are hardly erased.....that kind of thinking is reserved for fickle, pessimistic, fans like the RD. Give your head a shake herb, you're better than that.

herb wrote:Defensive coverage and passing in general was a mess. You can’t show up for five minutes and expect to win. What happened to being a team that’s hard to play against, has an aggressive fore-check and plays hard against the wall? That was a soft effort.


I think it is evident now that this team will spin its wheels until Gillis makes some changes to really scare the shit out of the players. I had hoped that the change behind the bench would have been enough, but clearly it is not. Perhaps it came too late to have that kind of effect. If that was some of the effect Gillis was going for he pretty much shot himself in the foot on that front when he extended Burrows, Edler, and Higgins, and gave them NTC's (limited in Higgins case).

herb wrote:Sullivan should have started Lack.


Doubt that makes a difference.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:25 pm

herb wrote:Since we have been shitting all over the drafting of Mike Gillis, and in honour of David Perron’s hat trick last night, I would really like to thank Dave Nonis for drafting Patrick White in 2007 one pick ahead of where Perron was picked.

I would also like to thank Dave for selecting Taylor Ellington in the second round ahead of PK Subban.

Dave also missed out on Jamie Benn and Wayne Simmonds. Clearly none of these players could help the team now. Thank you so much Dave for those awesome picks. Fuck me.


But, but, but, Herb......RD says that Nonis was like a god or something compared to Gillis...... :eh:

:look:

:roll:
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby herb » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:34 pm

Meds wrote:But, but, but, Herb......RD says that Nonis was like a god or something compared to Gillis...... :eh:

:look:

:roll:


Zedlee would certainly find some sort of loophole that proves Nonis' shitty drafting was not only not Nonis' fault, but Gillis' fault as well.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby SKYO » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:41 pm

herb wrote:The good news is that Schroeder was our best forward.

The bad news is that Schroeder was our best forward.

Kesler continues to disappoint. He’s a great supporting player, but clearly cannot carry a team. The same goes for Daniel.

Kassian wiped away two weeks’ worth of good work with one lazy effort.

Defensive coverage and passing in general was a mess. You can’t show up for five minutes and expect to win. What happened to being a team that’s hard to play against, has an aggressive fore-check and plays hard against the wall? That was a soft effort.

Sullivan should have started Lack.


Awesome to see Schroeder be the only one to throw shifty shots on net, lo and behold it worked!

I'm warming up to the ideal of acquiring a 2nd line center now and shift RK back to the beastmodo line.

Edler for ROR?

Our defense is a mess, all these mobile two dmen seem out of sync with a severe lack of chemistry, the sooner this can be sorted the better all round for our team in general, one of them has to be traded.

Along with a right side QB, we also need a big nasty dman like Allen or Greene (whose a ufa this offseason).

Gillis has to break out of his comfort zone and finally trade a core player.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby JonT21 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:51 pm

How do you figure regarding Kesler? He's our leading goal scorer....

Well I mean Kesler doesn't have much competition on the team. He has scored 1 goal in 10 games and nobody caught up. Even Vermette and Frans Nielsen have the same amount of goals as Kes
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby herb » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:55 pm

Daniel has only scored 25 goals in the nearly two years since Keith's elbow. There's a lockout thrown in there of course, but still a pretty significant drop-off.

In the three seasons prior to the head injury (217 games), Daniel scored 100 goals (scored in 46% of his regular season games played). Since the head injury, he’s played 101 regular season games and scored only 25 goals (scored in only 25% of his games). Over his career, Daniel has scored in 32% of his games so there’s been a drop off any way you look at it.

Regarding Kesler, I like him and think he can be a #1 center, but to do so your second and third centers better be damn good. He's just so streaky, and if he isn't scoring on a perfectly placed shot it seems like he is firing pucks into shin pads or missing the net as he tries to pick corners.

Kassian’s biggest problems have been consistency and work ethic, which was on full display last night. Last night he was sloppy and selfish, as was the rest of his team to be fair.

Lack may have given the team a spark. Sometimes starting the back-up does that.

I still think this stretch is a string of bad luck combined with a slump, but I also think there are some fishy smells coming out of the Canucks locker room and after last season and this season I think it’s pretty clear some rather significant retooling is required.

My only untouchable players are the Sedins and Kesler for obvious reasons and then of course any of our good young forwards, including Kassian (although I could stomach losing Kassian if it was someone like Kane or Ladd coming the other way).
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby mathonwy » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:32 pm

herb wrote:Since we have been shitting all over the drafting of Mike Gillis, and in honour of David Perron’s hat trick last night, I would really like to thank Dave Nonis for drafting Patrick White in 2007 one pick ahead of where Perron was picked.

I would also like to thank Dave for selecting Taylor Ellington in the second round ahead of PK Subban.

Dave also missed out on Jamie Benn and Wayne Simmonds. Clearly none of these players could help the team now. Thank you so much Dave for those awesome picks. Fuck me.

I went down this path a couple days ago... and its a dark path.

It's the primary reason why Anaheim and Chicago are where they are.

And it's also testament to Canuck management on being able to field such a competitive team in the last few years considering how horrible the drafting has been. :D

The next few years are going to be miserable ones until our most recent crop of draft picks come to age (provided we don't trade them off for Daniel Cleary and Sami Paulsson).
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby herb » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:54 pm

mathonwy wrote:I went down this path a couple days ago... and its a dark path.

It's the primary reason why Anaheim and Chicago are where they are.

And it's also testament to Canuck management on being able to field such a competitive team in the last few years considering how horrible the drafting has been. :D

The next few years are going to be miserable ones until our most recent crop of draft picks come to age (provided we don't trade them off for Daniel Cleary and Sami Paulsson).


Absolutely.

Looking at Canuck drafting over the years is a miserable case study. There have been many lean years, some nice picks and very few gems. The Canucks haven’t drafted a “star” player in 10 years (that we know of any way…2013 may have a couple).

The other day I was wondering how things might have been different had Burke not nickel and dimed and generally pissed of RJ Umberger. He’s never been a star player, but he has been a serviceable one. I mean, thank god Burke traded him for Rucinsky. What a great way to build a team…trade your best prospects for old vets who are going to play a dozen or so games.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby SKYO » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:32 pm

Yeah it is amazing how atrocious this team has been managed and drafted etc over the years....hence no Stanley Cups. :(

Lucky the Canucks didn't have legions of canucks fan online back in those days lol.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:59 pm

Maybe RD is on to something with all of this. Perhaps Gillis is culpable in one area regarding our drafting.....

He should have looked at all of the players the Canucks have passed on and shit-canned every scout in the organization.

I'd also like to say that the loss of Luc Bourdon (RIP) makes our drafting track record look worse than it is. The guy was projected to be a top 2 anchor on the blueline.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby mathonwy » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:01 pm

herb wrote:
Absolutely.

Looking at Canuck drafting over the years is a miserable case study. There have been many lean years, some nice picks and very few gems. The Canucks haven’t drafted a “star” player in 10 years (that we know of any way…2013 may have a couple).

The other day I was wondering how things might have been different had Burke not nickel and dimed and generally pissed of RJ Umberger. He’s never been a star player, but he has been a serviceable one. I mean, thank god Burke traded him for Rucinsky. What a great way to build a team…trade your best prospects for old vets who are going to play a dozen or so games.


In the game of hindsight, if you can draft a player that plays more than 100 games (let alone 651 for Umberger), you've hit the jackpot (regardless of if they are a 1st,2nd,3rd or 4th liner).

Since the WCE days, our team has considered itself one of the better teams in the league and by that high bar we set ourselves, Gillis has failed as a GM when it comes to drafting. I don't count first rounders. First round drafts picks are easy (supposedly). It's the 2 to 4 rounds where true champion teams are created and if you look at our picks in those rounds, it's fucking horrible.

Even in our recent years, all of our best prospects are from the first round and anything beyond that is iffy.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby mathonwy » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:03 pm

Meds wrote:Maybe RD is on to something with all of this. Perhaps Gillis is culpable in one area regarding our drafting.....

He should have looked at all of the players the Canucks have passed on and shit-canned every scout in the organization.

I'd also like to say that the loss of Luc Bourdon (RIP) makes our drafting track record look worse than it is. The guy was projected to be a top 2 anchor on the blueline.


One Luc Bourdon doesn't make up for every drafting fuck up that was made by our team but I like your positivity. You and ratski should hang out!

:drink:
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby Listercat » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:18 pm

Maybe I'm missing something, but what in the hell is the point of rehashing who could have been drafted when Burke & Nonis were GM? This has been done over and overdone so many times there is no possible merit to discussing it. What if's from years gone by aren't going to make today's team better.

We may as well be pontificating about what might have happened had we drafted Gilbert Perrault rather than Dale Talon FFS.
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby mathonwy » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:37 pm

Listercat wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but what in the hell is the point of rehashing who could have been drafted when Burke & Nonis were GM? This has been done over and overdone so many times there is no possible merit to discussing it. What if's from years gone by aren't going to make today's team better.

We may as well be pontificating about what might have happened had we drafted Gilbert Perrault rather than Dale Talon FFS.

Sure beats bitching about Burr's 0 goals and 3 assists...
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Re: City of Champions @ Vancouver - 7PM - SPac

Postby Strangelove » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:45 pm

What's the point in winning the Cup with perfect drafting and perfect players??

Let's win it lunch-bucket Cinderella style!

Much more exciting, much more satisfying...
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