Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Topper » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:21 pm

ClamRussel wrote:Ya disappointed, except one of those three should be on the roster but its a numbers game. The other two are valid invitees to a selection camp but shouldn't be in the conversation when it comes down to the final cuts. Huge difference.

Actually Marchand is not having that good of a season and he's likely too much of a loose cannon for Hockey Canada to send to the Olympics. :mrgreen:
ClamRussel wrote:I never said he compared the players, he said leaving them off was the equivalent. You basically reiterate what I said except you turn it around enough so that you can be contrary as per usual.

No, I don't assign any degree of disappointment felt by Chiarelli or Yzerman and neither do I believe Chiarelli was.

No I do not reiterate what you say, no matter how much back peddling you do. You acknowledge your bias that you believe St Louis should be on the team and let that influence a perception of Ciarelli's comment. I don't think see anyone on the selected team that St Louis would displace without making the team easier to play against.
Last edited by Topper on Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Arachnid » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:25 pm

Meds wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:Giroux is a major mistake, imagine the points he'd have playing w/ Crosby this season. I'd have found a way to squeeze both he & St. Louis onto this squad.

Chiarelli actually believes leaving Lucic & Marchand off this roster is equivalent to St. Louis. He mentioned GMs were pushing for their own guys but everyone had guys left off. My guess is Yzerman was outvoted on St. Louis.


The link that Topper posted regarding the selection process of the USA team was a good read, and I think it is a good basis to use when speculating why St. Louis was left off of the roster. The coaches and management group had to build a team. They had to fit into the mold that Canada was going with and they had to gel with the players they expected to put line them up with on the ice.

Personally I think that St. Louis should be on the team. If Kunitz is there because of his chemistry with Crosby than why not St. Louis with Stamkos. I know that there has been a lot of speculation that Stamkos will move over to the wing to skate with Sid, but it's not a lock that they will find the chemistry that St. Louis and Stamkos have. Stamkos might have to be moved back to center and play on the second line. In that case, they will be wishing Marty was there. Marty would probably also line up well with Jeff Carter, the guy is a pure scorer and he is a natural center who can slide to the wing, if Stamkos ends up with Crosby then that is an option for Marty to skate with.

But again, they had to build a team and assign players to positions they thought needed to be filled. Marty plays in most situations, but he only fits in at the RW spot, he's not as versatile that way.


You read that? :eh:

I guess we're on the other list

This team has to jell fast and cohesively therefore the decisions were made. As great as Giroux and St. Louis are they were perhaps not the right teammates....
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Topper » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:35 pm

Obviously the team Canada selection process was similar to the team USA process described by Burnside. Chiarelli (again) mentioned how they defined a style of play for the team, defined roles on that team and then placed the players into small groups of similar attributes to help decide which players would fill those roles.
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Per » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:33 pm

dbr wrote:
Per wrote:
Defence:
Oliver Ekman-Larsson, 22, Phoenix
Niklas Hjalmarsson, 26, Chicago
Henrik Tallinder, 34, Buffalo
Alexander Edler, 27, Vancouver
Johnny Oduya, 32, Chicago
Jonathan Ericsson, 29, Detroit
Niklas Kronwall, 32, Detroit
Erik Karlsson, 23, Ottawa

Couple of surprises on the blue line; no Hedman, Brodin or Murray.


Oof, Tallinder and Oduya over Hedman and Brodin, thoughts on that one Per?

No Enström either... Yeah, I was a bit surprised.

Now, both Tallinder and Edler played for Sweden at the last world championship, so I think Mårts wanted to show that he values loyalty. He also stated that the hardest player of all to cut was Brodin. A young talented player, who could benefit from seeing and learning. But he figured that Brodin would not be a regular starter, and that as a bench warmer he'd rather have an experienced guy, so he went with Tallinder, who he figures will have an easier time getting into the games if there are injuries.
Hedman was very disappointed. This is his best NHL season ever, and he had figured he'd make the roster. Not sure why Mårts didn't pick him.

Oduya? He's a decent enough D-man, and he doesn't mind dropping the gloves. He's no where near Murray when it comes to the role as police/enforcer, but he's a far better D-man, and I think Mårts decided that by picking Oduya he could pass on Murray. Personally, I'm not sure. I probably would have picked Murray, as I think just having him dressed sends a message to the opponents that they must not take any liberties. Oduya can take the occassional fight and stand up for his team mates, but he lacks the intimidation factor that Murray brings.

Oduya vs Horcoff:


Oduya vs Crabb:


Oduya vs Adams:
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Per » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:45 pm

Here's a link to all the Olympic rosters: http://sochi2014.iihf.com/men/news/ogmprelimrosters/

I can see that Gonchar is past his prime, but I was surprised that Semin didn't make the cut for Russia.

Slovakia has surprisingly many good players. Slovenia? Not so much... Can Kopitar play 40+ minutes per game. :roll:
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:02 pm

Per, who the hell is Jimmie Ericsson?

I can google like everyone else but how does he make the team?

And where's Mattias Weinhandl?
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Per » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:11 pm

Possible line up for Sweden:

Steen - Sedin - Sedin
Zetterberg - Bäckström - Franzén
Eriksson - Berglund - Alfredsson
Hagelin - Krüger - Landeskog
(Silfverberg, Ericsson)

Karlsson - Ekman-Larsson
Kronwall - Ericsson
Edler - Hjalmarsson
Talinder - Oduya

Lundqvist
Enroth
Gustavsson
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Per » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:26 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:Per, who the hell is Jimmie Ericsson?

I can google like everyone else but how does he make the team?

And where's Mattias Weinhandl?


Ericsson is captain of the ruling SHL champs Skellefteå. They've reached the final for three consecutive years, and last season finally won it, also resulting in a Golden Puck (league MVP) for Ericsson. Skellefteå is also at the top of the standings this season, and Ericsson was on the team that won gold at the world championship last winter.

An allround gritty player with some leadership qualities and a proven winner.
That being said, he's probably the most surprising pick - and the only non-NHL player - on the team.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=1103

Weinhandl?! :o
Back in the SHL after two seasons in the KHL. Has had a decent career, but is no where near making this team.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=236


Edit: Oops! Actually, that's four straight seasons in the KHL, two in Moscow, two in St Petersburg. :oops:
Last edited by Per on Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby ClamRussel » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:39 pm

Topper wrote:No I do not reiterate what you say, no matter how much back peddling you do. You acknowledge your bias that you believe St Louis should be on the team and let that influence a perception of Ciarelli's comment. I don't think see anyone on the selected team that St Louis would displace without making the team easier to play against.


Back pedalling? lol You're blinded by your need to argue.
There is no bias involved because all 3 players mentioned didn't make the team. Nice straw man though.
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:53 pm

Per wrote:Weinhandl?! :o
Back in the SHL after two seasons in the KHL. Has had a decent career, but is no where near making this team.


Got it, thanks! :drink:

:mrgreen:
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:00 pm

Pretty shocked St Louis and Giroux aren't there.

Could be a couple reasons for that. Stamkos will likely be shifting to Right Wing alongside Crosby. RW is also where St Louis plays. Giroux could be a casualty of the glut of centres and playmakers on this team. A guy like Nash isn't going to make his line mates better, but he can play a checking role, and is probably a better pure goalscorer. Probably the same reason they took Jeff Carter, pure scoring is going to be at a premium.

Not overly impressed with the Kunitz (he owes Crosby a lot of dinners) or Nash (tough season so far) picks... but there's no Bobby Ryan-level snub. I like the Marleau (versatility) and Duchene picks.

Really glad Hamhuis made it. He was a stud for Canada at the Worlds, is an exceptional skater, and is a nice balance to the risk-reward style of guys like Subban and Doughty. Thanks to Babcock to insisting on even Left-handed/Right-handed d-men. That defence is unreal, scary-good.

Really like the bottom-6 on this roster. IMO, that's going to be the difference in this tournament. A third-line of Benn-Getzlaf-Perry could just FEAST on opponents. That is a line that can do pretty much anything asked of it.

Kunitz-Crosby-Stamkos
Sharp-Toews-Carter
Benn-Getzlaf-Perry
Marleau-Tavares-Duchene
Nash/Bergeron
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Meds » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:40 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Really glad Hamhuis made it. He was a stud for Canada at the Worlds, is an exceptional skater, and is a nice balance to the risk-reward style of guys like Subban and Doughty. Thanks to Babcock to insisting on even Left-handed/Right-handed d-men. That defence is unreal, scary-good.


Doughty is less risk than reward. He's a much improved player and when he does pinch he gets back. He can eat huge minutes too if necessary. Far less risk than Subban.

Island Knucklehead wrote:Kunitz-Crosby-Stamkos
Sharp-Toews-Carter
Benn-Getzlaf-Perry
Marleau-Tavares-Duchene
Nash/Bergeron

Really like the bottom-6 on this roster. IMO, that's going to be the difference in this tournament. A third-line of Benn-Getzlaf-Perry could just FEAST on opponents. That is a line that can do pretty much anything asked of it.




Yeah. Scary line when they have the puck. None of those guys screams defensive prowess. Neither Getzlaf nor Perry are "world-class" skaters, I think you play these guys together because of their chemistry and history of playing together, but that line will scare me if they end up out there against a trio of say Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Ovechkin (providing Ovie and Kovie don't puck hog it into oblivion, then just stand and let them do circles around the outside and take away the shooting lane). If you want a line that can perform in ANY situation.....

Sharp - Toews - Bergeron.

Bergeron should be ahead of Marleau on the depth chart, him and Toews, IMO, are the best defensive forwards that Canada has, and they both are extremely capable offensively. Sharp is probably the most responsible two-way winger.


Fortunately Canada looks like they are approaching this from the mindset of putting pucks in the net and defense will be handled by having the puck on their sticks more often than not. As far as a balanced approach goes I think that Hamhuis should be ahead of both Bouwmeester and Vlasic. Bouwmeester hasn't won anything, ever. Vlasic is really benefiting from having Boyle as his partner. Hamhuis is more defensively responsible and capable than either of them.
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby JelloPuddingPop » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:37 pm

I love the fact that the Czechs are bringing in Petr Nedved. Him and Jagr are going to light it up! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby ClamRussel » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:00 pm

Meds wrote:Fortunately Canada looks like they are approaching this from the mindset of putting pucks in the net and defense will be handled by having the puck on their sticks more often than not. As far as a balanced approach goes I think that Hamhuis should be ahead of both Bouwmeester and Vlasic. Bouwmeester hasn't won anything, ever. Vlasic is really benefiting from having Boyle as his partner. Hamhuis is more defensively responsible and capable than either of them.


Vlasic is pretty solid responsibly, he certainly isn't there to bring offence. Bouwmeester wouldn't be there if he was still in Calgary but his stock has risen w/ the success St. Louis is having. Its a big ice surface and he's one of the top skating blueliners that Canada can offer. I know it won't happen, but since Canada has such a hard-on for pairings & chemistry perhaps Hamhuis should be reunited w/ Weber to see if they can still click together.
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Re: Sochi 2014: Who Makes the Cut?

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:06 pm

Meds wrote:Doughty is less risk than reward. He's a much improved player and when he does pinch he gets back. He can eat huge minutes too if necessary. Far less risk than Subban.


No doubt Subban is far riskier than Doughty. The point was that Doughty seems to be more effective when he's paired with a safer partner.

Yeah. Scary line when they have the puck. None of those guys screams defensive prowess. Neither Getzlaf nor Perry are "world-class" skaters, I think you play these guys together because of their chemistry and history of playing together, but that line will scare me if they end up out there against a trio of say Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Ovechkin (providing Ovie and Kovie don't puck hog it into oblivion, then just stand and let them do circles around the outside and take away the shooting lane). If you want a line that can perform in ANY situation.....


If those guys are out against Ovechkin, we've lost the matchup battle. I'd wager that line starts most of their starts in the offensive zone, and plays the grinding style Canada should dominate. Outside of Chara, there aren't many d-men in this tourney that will be able to match-up physically with that line.


Sharp - Toews - Bergeron.

Bergeron should be ahead of Marleau on the depth chart, him and Toews, IMO, are the best defensive forwards that Canada has, and they both are extremely capable offensively. Sharp is probably the most responsible two-way winger.


Different roles. Marleau is a faster player and better offensively. I also don't think you'll see Bergeron on the wing. He's 62% in the circle, so he could be the fourth line C, but I don't think you'll see him in an offensive role. He's not quick, and we have too many offensive studs. He was the 13th forward in Vancouver, pretty much a face-off only guy, and I can see him in a slightly expanded role this year.


Fortunately Canada looks like they are approaching this from the mindset of putting pucks in the net and defense will be handled by having the puck on their sticks more often than not. As far as a balanced approach goes I think that Hamhuis should be ahead of both Bouwmeester and Vlasic. Bouwmeester hasn't won anything, ever. Vlasic is really benefiting from having Boyle as his partner. Hamhuis is more defensively responsible and capable than either of them.


I don't think you'll see Hamhuis ahead of Bouwmeester. Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo are this years package deal like Pronger-Niedermayer/Keith-Seabrook. Chances are they stay together. Vlasic could be the odd man out, but my guess is they'll try some things out in practice and see who gels. I imagine Subban will be the 7th d-man, so one of the Left-handers (Hamhuis, Vlasic, J-Bo, Keith) will be in the pressbox. Hamhuis is familiar with Weber, but I don' t think Babcock will go away from a Weber-Keith pairing.
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