OOTS: 2013-14

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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby Benjo » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:25 pm

Garbage situational awareness by Schenn there. Definitely charging by Wilson but Schenn made it so much worse for himself. Why in the hell would you turn your back when your 3 feet from the boards?
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:36 pm

Phone hearing scheduled. Tom Wilson is going to get 5 or less.

People are all over Schenn for turning towards the boards, and obviously that was a horrible choice on his part, but honestly I can't say I blame him, that's reflex. He sees the hit coming at the last second and turns away from it.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby Strangelove » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:50 pm

Strangelove wrote:One of the worst groups of dee in the league, and a team severely lacking in character.


Looks like Reimer agrees with me:

http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=439281

"There's never an excuse," said Reimer. "There's never an excuse. Injuries, tired – it's all BS. Those are excuses and they're useless. What it comes down to is your will, your heart, your character."

Reimer probably has more character than any other Leaf...

Brown Knight, the Leaves have 2 third-line centres injured atm (Bolland + Bozak).

They don't possess a true top-6 centre... Kadri might become one eventually.

Anyway, as Reimer says, injuries are no excuse for the Leaves.

As an aside, I feel many of the Leaf players hate Carlyle with a passion.

18-wheeler going right off a cliff. :mex:
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby herb » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:03 pm

Strangelove wrote:18-wheeler going right off a cliff. :mex:


Enjoying yourself yet??

Canucks playing well + Leafs suckage + Oilers continually abysmal team = great times on the coast!
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby Topper » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:07 pm

dbr wrote:Schenn did turn though.

He was going to get obliterated anyway but you can't see a hit like that coming and turn away from it, it's just the worst thing you can do for yourself.


(edit: I guess my point is that it makes it tough to suspend for the injury in cases like this, which obviously the league does. IMO give Wilson a few games for a reckless run at a player so you can really throw the book at him if he keeps it up in the future but Schenn put himself in a really bad spot.)

Bingo, What was Shenn's INTENT turning like that.

Injury, like or not, is written into the CBA as a factor to consider in supplementary discipline.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby Strangelove » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:10 pm

herb wrote:
Strangelove wrote:18-wheeler going right off a cliff. :mex:


Enjoying yourself yet??

Canucks playing well + Leafs suckage + Oilers continually abysmal team = great times on the coast!


:D
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby KeyserSoze » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:08 pm

This is a good example of what not to do in both cases.

If Schenn sees someone coming, even last minute, he can't try to eek out by turning his back on the play. It seems to me like he identified a hit coming with enough time to still accelerate forward or at least brace himself...but chose to turn instead. He should also expect immediate pressure, he is handling the puck in the corner of all places. Gutless move on his part to turn like that.

Wilson should likely not be as reckless as he was...but I find it difficult to blame him much more than I do Schenn. Not sure if the Caps were making an offensive zone change, and he was high tailing it to get into the play to sustain pressure...but whatever the case he was clearly on a collision course to crush something. The extra few strides at the end were likely there because Wilson realized Schenn was ripe for the picking, which is the part I don't like. He could have glided in and still crushed him. Don't get me wrong, I love the aggressive fore check, hitting hard, and making your opponents rush plays because of it...but I think Wilson realized the potential for a monster hit was there and took full advantage...and unfortunately it did not end well.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby herb » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:27 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:If Schenn sees someone coming, even last minute, he can't try to eek out by turning his back on the play. It seems to me like he identified a hit coming with enough time to still accelerate forward or at least brace himself...but chose to turn instead. He should also expect immediate pressure, he is handling the puck in the corner of all places. Gutless move on his part to turn like that.


Players turn to avoid hits all the time. The Sedins avoid contact with a quick spin or turn nearly every game. That doesn't mean the guy who got hit should get the blame on what was a predatory charge.

I love a hard fore check. I love fast paced, aggressive hockey. I hate the lack of respect many players have for their competition.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:40 pm

Since Schenn's actions and intent are coming up so much into the conversation, and rightly so, here's something to consider...

On that particular hit, does anyone truly think it would have turned out significantly better had Schenn actually turned into it? I think Wilson was so out of control with momentum, Schenn would have ended up landing on his back and smashing his head into the boards either way. Schenn was in that sweet spot (5 feet away from the boards with the puck) where, if he gets hit hard, it's going to be bad. Wilson hits him so hard he flies off the ice after contact, which is why he ends up falling down immediately after (Schenn's leg also trips him slightly).

While he definitely shares responsibility, I think people are putting a bit too much blame on Schenn for this one.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby KeyserSoze » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:01 pm

herb wrote:Players turn to avoid hits all the time. The Sedins avoid contact with a quick spin or turn nearly every game. That doesn't mean the guy who got hit should get the blame on what was a predatory charge.

I love a hard fore check. I love fast paced, aggressive hockey. I hate the lack of respect many players have for their competition.

Schenn obviously shouldn't get all of the blame...but he should surely get some of it.

Turning was a gutless move on his part. "Taking a hit to make a play"...well Schenn wasn't willing. Not saying I totally blame him or don't understand why he turned, but he would have been better off skating through it or bracing himself imo. I think he realized he was in trouble with enough time to take an extra quick stride or two, which may have at least saved his head/neck. Hell, if he had done that it may have been Wilson flying into the boards and getting hurt on the play. Impossible to say.

I fully agree about the lack of respect, and mentioned that I didn't like the final few strides (or mentality in general) that Wilson took when he realized that Schenn was ripe to be crushed. He could have finished his hit on the glide per usual, but instead accelerated at the last moment to take advantage of the somewhat vulnerable player.

Interestingly enough, these 2 players had a scrap earlier this year immediately after a faceoff, so there could be some bad blood there. Not sure if Wilson knew who he was hitting, but I'm guessing he did.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:12 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:Turning was a gutless move on his part. "Taking a hit to make a play"...well Schenn wasn't willing. Not saying I totally blame him or don't understand why he turned, but he would have been better off skating through it or bracing himself imo. I think he realized he was in trouble with enough time to take an extra quick stride or two, which may have at least saved his head/neck. Hell, if he had done that it may have been Wilson flying into the boards and getting hurt on the play. Impossible to say.


I think the point a lot of people are making is that it doesn't matter if he turned or not. A charge is a charge, and boarding is boarding. Someone taking a run like that, and nailing his opponent "violently into the boards" is a penalty regardless or what way the opponent is facing.

I think the league needs to reinforce that the idea of body checking/contact is to separate the player from the puck, not put someone in the hospital. Now guys can get pumped up with a big hit and swing momentum, but ultimately the league has to protect these guys from themselves. If you want to be a predatory player, you need to pay the price with being suspended and losing a bunch of money.

I still think he only gets 1-2 games. There have been far more malicious hits this season, and the going rate for them (sadly) is 1-2 games.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby herb » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:23 pm

BurningBeard wrote:On that particular hit, does anyone truly think it would have turned out significantly better had Schenn actually turned into it? I think Wilson was so out of control with momentum, Schenn would have ended up landing on his back and smashing his head into the boards either way. Schenn was in that sweet spot (5 feet away from the boards with the puck) where, if he gets hit hard, it's going to be bad. Wilson hits him so hard he flies off the ice after contact, which is why he ends up falling down immediately after (Schenn's leg also trips him slightly).


I agree. When Wilson is coming in at that type of out of speed with the intention of inflicting a devastating hit, it's going to be devastating if it's in the open ice, right along the boards or 5 feet from the boards.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby herb » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:24 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I think the league needs to reinforce that the idea of body checking/contact is to separate the player from the puck, not put someone in the hospital.


Yup.

Separate stick from puck - not head from body.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:48 pm

Compare that hit to the one on Getzlaf. He gets a bump, does a toe pick, ends up face first into the boards. Called 5 minutes and a game for boarding. To me no suspension. On the Schenn hit, ya gotta give the guy 3-4 games on that one.

On the Stanton hit I think that too should be 1-2 game suspension. He had his arms held up as he was guided into the boards. He had zero opportunity to put his arms up to brace himself. If he had not have fallen he would have done a face plant into the glass. Not as bad a hit but careless, a penalty on the play and a resulting injury.
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Re: OOTS: 2013-14

Postby sagebrush » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:21 pm

herb wrote: Canucks playing well + Leafs suckage + Oilers continually abysmal team = great times on the coast!
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