Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:58 pm

rats19 wrote:How many different ways can we actually say: It was time for a coaching change, the previous coach had lost the room or was unable to make the changes within the team. 56?

Here, let me sign it.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby rats19 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:03 pm

I don't know what you are saying??? That's twice now :sly:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:11 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I remember so well the talk about wanting to employ a system when he got to Vancouver but needed the players who could execute. MG supposicly got those players and then AV was all about the process. Seems he is saying the same things now in NY. For fans that want Del Zoto or Calli, read the message boards about their play, injuries and value for expected next.


Sorry Hockey Widow,

I'm going to have to call you out on this one.

This paragraph right here is almost implying that AV is a failure as a coach and is prone to make excuses for his inevitable failures.

While in Vancouver - It's true that AV wanted to employ a certain system, and expressed a desire to acquire players that could execute.......and upon acquiring those players, talked about the process. This happened from 2006-2008. What happened after that? 2008-2013......arguably the greatest and most successful time in franchise history.

Two Presidents' trophies, a Jack Adams award, and helping corral the talents of a Hart trophy winner, Art Ross trophy winners, Selke trophy winner, and a Vezina trophy finalist.

Vigneault deserves a lot of respect........and no, Vigneault did not lose the room after the Cup run. If that was the case, we wouldn't have won the Presidents' Trophy the following year.

It was the 2013 season where V started to lose the team.

So many people seem to think that this team completely tanked after our cup loss......or even after the Boston revenge game on Jan 7 2012.......but if that was the case, we wouldn't have won that 2nd Presidents' trophy. Furthermore, during that series against the Kings, each and every one of those games was a coin flip outside of Game 2. Although it was a 5 game series loss, we pushed the Kings harder than their other opponents in those playoffs (and yes, I realize that NJ won 2 games against LA).

Having said all that, I'm glad that we have Tortorella as V's time here was done.
Last edited by The Brown Knight on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby rats19 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:13 pm

57
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby sagebrush » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:44 pm

rats19 wrote:I don't know what you are saying??? That's twice now :sly:

Just so we don't get bogus. :wink:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:45 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:So many people seem to think that this team completely tanked after our cup loss......or even after the Boston revenge game on Jan 7 2012.......

Having said all that, I'm glad that we have Tortorella as V's time here was done.

I agree with most of waht you said, however the portion in bold contradicts GMMG's post season assessment.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:11 am

Topper wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote:So many people seem to think that this team completely tanked after our cup loss......or even after the Boston revenge game on Jan 7 2012.......

Having said all that, I'm glad that we have Tortorella as V's time here was done.

I agree with most of waht you said, however the portion in bold contradicts GMMG's post season assessment.


If that's the case, even MG is being overly harsh on the team I think (at that time). ( On an unrelated note, I wonder how the team would have fared had they packaged Hodgson and Schneider for some immediate help.....like a top 6 forward for instance).

While it IS true that the team didn't consistently play well after the Jan 7th game, we still put in great efforts (and wins) against elite teams such as Chicago and Detroit during that time period.

And again - I reiterate - a team doesn't win a 2nd consecutive Presidents' trophy if they go completely AWOL. Period.

Outside of Game 2, the Canucks and Kings were neck and neck and those games were a coin flip. Daniel missed the first 3 games........perhaps that would have made a difference?

In my opinion, the only "sub-par" season we've had in recent years, was last season.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby SKYO » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:51 pm

"Torts says not comfortable with Kassian on Twins line b/c of his play in own zone & against other team's best players #Canucks
via: @patersonjeff"

In other words Kassian sucks defensively.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:23 pm

SKYO wrote:"Torts says not comfortable with Kassian on Twins line b/c of his play in own zone & against other team's best players #Canucks
via: @patersonjeff"

In other words Kassian sucks defensively.


Not really much of a surprise, is it? He's a big guy who not only needs to learn how to use his size at the pro level, but maintain a high compete level (without crossing the line) and play at a consistently high tempo. On top of that, there's the defensive side of the game.

The Sedins play 17+ mins per night even strength. Kassian has averaged 11. Not a good fit for a 5on5 line.

I would like to see Kassian on the PP with the twins. Where a guy like Burrows couldn't do jack shit with 2+ minutes of PP time per game, Kassian gets about 20 seconds. The Sedins and Kesler average over 3 minutes per night on the PP. With the way Santorelli has played with Kesler and Higgins, why not use them on the PP, and throw Kassian a bone with the Sedins?

Given that we are still bottom-5 in the NHL on the PP, I think change could start there.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:53 pm

SKYO wrote:"Torts says not comfortable with Kassian on Twins line b/c of his play in own zone & against other team's best players #Canucks
via: @patersonjeff"

In other words Kassian sucks defensively.

Ooooooooo

You mean he may have to earn his way to the top line?

So hard to fathom for so many.......
Last edited by Topper on Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby SKYO » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Agreed Tops, Kass has to earn his minutes under Torts!

Island Nucklehead wrote:Not really much of a surprise, is it? He's a big guy who not only needs to learn how to use his size at the pro level, but maintain a high compete level (without crossing the line) and play at a consistently high tempo. On top of that, there's the defensive side of the game.

I would like to see Kassian on the PP with the twins.


imo Kassian won't breakout dominant till the old age of 24.

As for powerplay use Torts should give it a try sooner or later, or at least get him prepped in the offseason for that type of role, then next season he'd be more likely to succeed!

Can't rush Kass right now as he's still learning to pace himself correctly so he stay consistent more often, a trait lost on young power forwards.

Coupla more seasons of maturing for ZK, which is an agonizing wait for him to come around for us fans, but it'll be worth it.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:08 pm

I'm with Torts on this one.

Until Kassian improves his defensive game, and attitude, then fuck him.

Nothing should be handed to the kid. Let him earn it. He's talented enough.

Sedins, Kesler, and Burrows all "paid their dues" on the bottom 6 while becoming more well rounded players. Let Kassian do the same.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:22 pm

Topper wrote:
SKYO wrote:"Torts says not comfortable with Kassian on Twins line b/c of his play in own zone & against other team's best players #Canucks
via: @patersonjeff"

In other words Kassian sucks defensively.

Ooooooooo

You mean he may have to earn his way to the top line?

So hard to fathom for so many.......


For myself I haven't advocated that Kassian be a staple on the top line but a handfull of shifts here and there throughout a game could do wonders for the kid. Kassian is weak defensively but so are the twins so laoding up a line with three guys like that isn't smart. Only this season do the twins seem to be playing a better defensive game and getting their noses dirty in their own end. Funny, as young players they had a 200 ft game but around 2008 that went south hard. I see no reason to put three mediocre defensive players on the same line all the time.

I still think Kassian would look good alongside Kesler and Higgins but he needs to earn it. If Santorelli is the other winger on the 2nd line then Gillis needs to add a centre with some skill. Or if Kassian can sieze the spot Santo drops to the middle of the 3rd line. Either way the days of both Burrows and Hansen in the top 6 have to stop. I'd also
like to see some PP time for Zack with the twins and put Kesler on the 2nd unit, but for whatever reason the coaching staff seems to want to stack the first unit despite the fact the PP has sucked pipe for two calendar years.

The kid is coming along slowly but surely. I know there are some like the dude that have their fingers crossed hoping he will fail but I do see some signs, however small they are ,that he is an improving player. Give him 12 - 14 min and 1- 2 minutes of PP time and you will see some decent results. He needs a better centre than Richardson to play with however. Nice kid and good 4th line guy but the team goes nowhere with him anchoring the 3rd line.

As an asside SKYO he doesn't SUCK defensively but he has some improving to do. I along with a few others were more likely pissed that AV never gave the kid more than 6 minutes per game and burried him on the 4th line after 5 goals in 7 games.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:37 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:I'm with Torts on this one.

Until Kassian improves his defensive game, and attitude, then fuck him.

Nothing should be handed to the kid. Let him earn it. He's talented enough.

Sedins, Kesler, and Burrows all "paid their dues" on the bottom 6 while becoming more well rounded players. Let Kassian do the same.


Well there ya go.

He shouldn't have to play much D on the PP. He can establish a net presence and he's got the hands for the garbage goals. He sure as shit can't do any worse than Burrows' PP performance this season.

He's never going to be a two-way player like Burr or Kesler, so let's not set the kid up for failure. We acquired him to add sandpaper, punish opponents D, have strong net presence (garbage goals), and beat the tar out of people if/when required. We didn't bring him in here to win Selke's or zip around on the PK.

I'm all for keeping him in a bottom-6 role for the 5on5 play, his development and play definitely calls for that. But when your PP is as fucking awful as ours has been over the past year, it's worth a shot to try a guy like that out. Putting him with the Sedins in those situations probably boosts his confidence in all areas of play, and in the playoffs (if we make them) should keep other players from taking liberties with the Sedins after the whistle.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:44 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:I'm with Torts on this one.

Until Kassian improves his defensive game, and attitude, then fuck him.

Nothing should be handed to the kid. Let him earn it. He's talented enough.

Sedins, Kesler, and Burrows all "paid their dues" on the bottom 6 while becoming more well rounded players. Let Kassian do the same.


Sedins have never played bottom six on this team . Ever. Burrows is on the downslope and coatailed the twins to his success. We will likely see a regression to 2006-07 levels for him. He could be the compliance buyout next summer if the team can find a taker for Booth and Luongo.
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