Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:37 am

Boston Canucker wrote:I have to say, from afar watching the games on center ice, I'm actually enjoying this season much more than the past two post-2011 run seasons. The past two years just felt like we were biding time until the playoffs to get to games with some tension, meaning (and as we learned, total disappointment). At times, I wondered why I even bothered to watch the last couple years, and often didn't. Now, the games actually matter in December, imagine that!, and the team's style under Torts is worth watching, when they are pushing the play as he wants them too. If we get in, I think we will, it's likely in the 6-8 range area, so be it, if young guys like Lack, Tanev, Stanton etc get playing time, keep improving, with Horvat/Shinkaruk on the horizon, I can live with that as a transition year or two in which the team is still in the mix, if not a favorite.


Agreed. The team under Torts has been refreshing to watch. You can see the urgency in the Canucks this year, whereas the last couple of years, the individual games didn't seem to matter much to the players.

Boston Canucker wrote:On the salary cap, unless he "flips the switch" I don't see how Booth avoids a buyout. That 4 mill in space plus the space gained from the cap going up gives them some nice room to work with. I keep hoping Booth will get it going (every time I see a cut move to the net like against the Canes for example, hope rears its ugly head), but it seems highly doubtful...


I agree Booth will be bought out. "Hope rears its ugly head" beautifully summarizes the situation. At some point you have to know when to quit, and if Booth isn't productive within the next several weeks (which it's looking like he won't be) then there is absolutely no value in not buying him out.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:22 pm

It is refreshing to read the NYR fans and their frustration since Torts is gone. And AV seems it have thrown his hands up in surrender. Complaints about poor defence, lack of scoring, no forecheck, no intensity. The fans seem to be waiting to see what this new high flying offence AV is supposed to bring.

I remember so well the talk about wanting to employ a system when he got to Vancouver but needed the players who could execute. MG supposicly got those players and then AV was all about the process. Seems he is saying the same things now in NY. For fans that want Del Zoto or Calli, read the message boards about their play, injuries and value for expected next contract.

Some seem convinced that King Henrik is good but his numbers may have been overstated by the system Torts employed and without that defensive game and shot blocking King Henrik looks average but average with a new LTC.

I' m still waiting for the boggy man Torts to appear and I guess that Torts was nothing more than a media creation. Show the same clips over and over and peg the guy as a wing nut lose canon. I have been pleasantly surprised by his pressers. But it sure sounds like NYR fans have tired of Sather and most of the team.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Mondi » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:27 pm

2010-211 alone is evidence that AV is a fabulous coach.

I see no need to disparage him, particularly when Torts may or may not get this team into the playoffs.

Torts seems to have changed the character of the team, but he's a long way from accomplishing with this group what AV did.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Vader » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:36 pm

Boston Canucker wrote: Now, the games actually matter in December, imagine that!, and the team's style under Torts is worth watching, when they are pushing the play as he wants them too.



Well, the games actually matter in December because the teams record is nowhere near as good as in the past!

I don't see the Canucks pushing the play in the 3rd - I see them hesitant and blowing leads, handing conference rivals points (San Jose, LA, Phoenix, Chicago).

Does everyone hate AV that much?
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:56 pm

Mondi wrote:2010-211 alone is evidence that AV is a fabulous coach.

I see no need to disparage him, particularly when Torts may or may not get this team into the playoffs.

Torts seems to have changed the character of the team, but he's a long way from accomplishing with this group what AV did.



I wasn't disparaging AV. He sure did accomplish a lot here but his time was done after our SC run. I just think it is funny how Torts was run out of town by most everyone in NY and they are now recognizing what he brought to the team. As for AV, he has thrown his hands up in NY. he doesn't have the type of players he wants and he is letting everyone know it.

As for Torts not yet accomplishing anything here I agree. But I still find him a refreshing change. He reads the game well and makes in game decisions that are refreshing, like taking a time out when needed :mrgreen:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Boston Canucker » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:28 pm

Vader wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote: Now, the games actually matter in December, imagine that!, and the team's style under Torts is worth watching, when they are pushing the play as he wants them too.



Well, the games actually matter in December because the teams record is nowhere near as good as in the past!


Well, actually, no not really, not if you mean in December as opposed to March/April. The Canucks started slow pretty much every year under AV (often at this time of the year we may not even have climbed back up to first in the division yet) but did anyone really worry they would not make the playoffs, I mean seriously?. No, the games matter more because they are in a way tougher division. If it was the old division right now, Edm and Calg would be toast and we'd be, guess what, tied for first with the Wild for the div lead. That soft ship has sailed, or sunk. Yes, the team is not up to the standard of 2010-11, we all know that, but it wasn't last two years either and making the playoffs never seemed a big concern.

On AV, I don't dislike him at all. He did a very good job, but you couldn't watch those two playoff exits without seeing the team needed a new voice. He did great work, but the air was out of those tires
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Vader » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:49 pm

Boston Canucker wrote:
On AV, I don't dislike him at all. He did a very good job, but you couldn't watch those two playoff exits without seeing the team needed a new voice. He did great work, but the air was out of those tires


Yeah, probably true.

I'm just not ready to annoint Tortorella the saviour. So far he's managed to barely keep the team above water by playing the snot out of several players on the wrong side of 30 years old. We'll see how long he can keep this up, my guess is the Sedin's and Luongo etc will be out of gas come April
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Boston Canucker » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:55 pm

Vader wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:
On AV, I don't dislike him at all. He did a very good job, but you couldn't watch those two playoff exits without seeing the team needed a new voice. He did great work, but the air was out of those tires


Yeah, probably true.

I'm just not ready to annoint Tortorella the saviour. So far he's managed to barely keep the team above water by playing the snot out of several players on the wrong side of 30 years old. We'll see how long he can keep this up, my guess is the Sedin's and Luongo etc will be out of gas come April


I was not in favor of hiring Tortorella in the first place actually. I thought it would be a total shitshow after how it ended in NYR. So to me he has been better than expected. And I see a team that is actually getting better. They have had some tepid 3rd periods, to be sure, but they seem to have righted themselves. I still see them as probably no better than a 6th seed, nothing to plan parades around. On the ice time, maybe, but it looks like he has cut the Sedins back to their usual 20 mins, in no small part because the 2nd line has picked it up and are getting more time. It's really Kesler is carrying the consistent minutes...we'll see how he handles it.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Vader wrote:Well, the games actually matter in December because the teams record is nowhere near as good as in the past!


This is true to a certain extent, but I'm not sure I believe the team's record is "nowhere near as good". Despite some disappointing results in games the team 'should' have won and playing in a much tougher division now, the Canucks aren't that far off from their 2011 and 2012 point totals. 2014 (and 2013) is projected over 82 games, but below is a comparison of Torts' season thus far with AVs'.

Year GP W L OT P
2014 82 45 25 12 102
2013 82 44 26 12 101
2012 82 51 22 9 111
2011 82 54 19 9 117
2010 82 49 28 5 103
2009 82 45 27 10 100
2008 82 39 33 10 88
2007 82 49 26 7 105

Personally, I liked AV as a coach, but it was time to change the sheets, so to speak. A good coach, but his approach and the way the team played had gone stale. So far I am liking what Torts has brought to the table in terms of expecting a lot out of every single one of his players and mixing things up mid-game to try and find a spark.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby rats19 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:52 pm

How many different ways can we actually say: It was time for a coaching change, the previous coach had lost the room or was unable to make the changes within the team. 56?
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:58 pm

rats19 wrote:How many different ways can we actually say: It was time for a coaching change, the previous coach had lost the room or was unable to make the changes within the team. 56?

Here, let me sign it.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby rats19 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:03 pm

I don't know what you are saying??? That's twice now :sly:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:11 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I remember so well the talk about wanting to employ a system when he got to Vancouver but needed the players who could execute. MG supposicly got those players and then AV was all about the process. Seems he is saying the same things now in NY. For fans that want Del Zoto or Calli, read the message boards about their play, injuries and value for expected next.


Sorry Hockey Widow,

I'm going to have to call you out on this one.

This paragraph right here is almost implying that AV is a failure as a coach and is prone to make excuses for his inevitable failures.

While in Vancouver - It's true that AV wanted to employ a certain system, and expressed a desire to acquire players that could execute.......and upon acquiring those players, talked about the process. This happened from 2006-2008. What happened after that? 2008-2013......arguably the greatest and most successful time in franchise history.

Two Presidents' trophies, a Jack Adams award, and helping corral the talents of a Hart trophy winner, Art Ross trophy winners, Selke trophy winner, and a Vezina trophy finalist.

Vigneault deserves a lot of respect........and no, Vigneault did not lose the room after the Cup run. If that was the case, we wouldn't have won the Presidents' Trophy the following year.

It was the 2013 season where V started to lose the team.

So many people seem to think that this team completely tanked after our cup loss......or even after the Boston revenge game on Jan 7 2012.......but if that was the case, we wouldn't have won that 2nd Presidents' trophy. Furthermore, during that series against the Kings, each and every one of those games was a coin flip outside of Game 2. Although it was a 5 game series loss, we pushed the Kings harder than their other opponents in those playoffs (and yes, I realize that NJ won 2 games against LA).

Having said all that, I'm glad that we have Tortorella as V's time here was done.
Last edited by The Brown Knight on Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby rats19 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:13 pm

57
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby sagebrush » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:44 pm

rats19 wrote:I don't know what you are saying??? That's twice now :sly:

Just so we don't get bogus. :wink:
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