Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:01 am

RoyalDude wrote:the only hope for Gillis redeeming himself is that Cole Cassels actually turns into a stud as he was the 3rd pick Florida gave us in that deal.


Cole Cassels if off to a great start. He's like 22nd among the OHL scoring leaders. BoHo is like 1 point behind him. Hopefully, Cassels will turn out to be a dark horse pick and turn out to be a good one; he has the genes, hopefully he'll pan out. :P

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/stat ... 9/first/20


BurningBeard wrote:You didn't think trading Samuelsson (and getting rid of Sturm) for Booth wasn't an upgrade? And a really good shot at getting a 30 goal scorer that had chemistry with Kesler? I'm not talking about right now, I'm talking about Oct 2011, like 10 games into the season.


I'm with RD on this one. I would of stayed away from Boothy. I didn't like his contract (salary + term) for a player who was relatively unknown. If MG stayed away from Booth + Baltard altogether, he would of had some younger assets (1st pick + grabner) and available dollars to use on players who could actuallly help this team.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:30 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I'm with RD on this one. I would of stayed away from Boothy. I didn't like his contract (salary + term) for a player who was relatively unknown. If MG stayed away from Booth + Baltard altogether, he would of had some younger assets (1st pick + grabner) and available dollars to use on players who could actuallly help this team.


This is what psychologists refer to as creeping determinism, or looking at events which have already occurred as being more predictive than they actually were.

At this point, even I have a hard time arguing that Booth should stick around. :lol:

Booth was an attempt at getting a 25-30 goal scorer in the lineup for next to nothing. We also got a third round pick in that trade which has turned into a useful prospect. At this point Booth is on the fast track to being waived. You win some (Higgins) you lose some (Booth). Wotever.

It's too bad Shinkaruk/Horvat/Gaunce/Cassels aren't a year or two older and that Jensen isn't an option.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby The Brown Knight » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:26 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I'm with RD on this one. I would of stayed away from Boothy.


Hindsight is always 20/20.

Gillis took a risk on a Booth and lost (or is losing). Period.

Gillis saw a 20 something year old that had good size, and had proven success at the NHL level. Gillis saw a guy that had a few injuries, but had a realistic shot of re-discovering his 30 goal self. Gillis took the risk and lost.

In theory however, I don't think Gillis' line of thought can be at fault at all.

Ditto for Ballard. Gillis' logic and line of thought was not at fault. The players he picked up, for various reasons, just did not play well while they were here.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby sagebrush » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:39 pm

When allowing someone to make decisions, you hope for good judgement. When paying them to do it, you expect good judgement.

Gillis' tenure is based on the total of his decisions. Excuses for individual decisions don't cut it.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:42 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:In theory however, I don't think Gillis' line of thought can be at fault at all.

Ditto for Ballard. Gillis' logic and line of thought was not at fault. The players he picked up, for various reasons, just did not play well while they were here.


Gillis got Ballard out of an abundance of caution, fearing that he would not be able to sign Hamhuis. I sort of get that, but the long-term planning sucked because once Hamhuis was signed Ballard became redundant almost immediately. I have to assume the scouting the Canucks had on Ballard was terrible because he was nowhere near the player we thought we were getting (could not play the right side, at all, terrible awareness, poor conditioning, etc.). Gillis also paid a hefty price to acquire Ballard, whereas Booth cost next to nothing.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:44 pm

sagebrush wrote:Gillis' tenure is based on the total of his decisions. Excuses for individual decisions don't cut it.


The summation of his decisions has been pretty good. Not outstanding, but pretty good. The next off season will be a big one for Gillis.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby sagebrush » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:49 pm

^^
Good is a relative thing. Pacific division standards are high.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby The Brown Knight » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:52 pm

I get what you guys are saying (herb and sagebrush), but keep in mind that both Ballard and Booth had a decent track record before these deals were made. To the best of my knowledge, Ballard's awareness and lack of conditioning were not issues in Florida. As far as Booth goes, like I said........the dude had a 30 goal season. Even though he had a few injuries over the years, it was a decent enough assumption to deduce that Booth could get back to that level (given his age).

Both deals sucked, but again..........I don't think Gillis can fully be blamed. He made the deals based on sound logic, but the players just flat out didn't perform as expected.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:05 pm

sagebrush wrote:^^
Good is a relative thing. Pacific division standards are high.


It's only been six weeks!
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby sagebrush » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:19 pm

^^
Expect Pacific standards to remain high.

Expect todays line up to be:

Sedins - Burrows
Higgins - Santorelli - Kesler
Kassian - Richardson - Hansen
Sestito - Dalpe - Weise
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby BurningBeard » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:31 pm

I'm sorry but the Ballard deal was way worse then the Booth deal, IMO. The Booth deal was a calculated risk / gamble, the cost of which amounted to nothing but cap space. Cap space that became more of an issue due to the new CBA.

The Ballard deal is pretty unforgivable in my mind. I understand Gillis was trying to hedge his bets with Hamhuis, and good on him for doing that, but if you're going to give up a 1st round draft pick for a top 4 Dman, he sure as hell better be a top 4 Dman. The deal, and his handling by Vigneault, is indicative that the pro scouting report was beyond poor, or that GM and coach had a complete lack of communication regarding said player.

If we're bringing up the past, and deals the Canucks should have done differently, the one deal I wish would have happened differently that doesn't get much play is the David Backes offer sheet. If St. Louis hadn't matched that offer sheet the Canucks would have never picked up Steve Bernier, and the top six would be solid. I can also only presume that Kesler and Burrows would have a much better relationship with Kelly. :P Gillis' first instinct on what the team needed couldn't have been more correct. Backes is exactly the sort of player the team is still searching for.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:34 pm

herb wrote:This is what psychologists refer to as creeping determinism, or looking at events which have already occurred as being more predictive than they actually were.

At this point, even I have a hard time arguing that Booth should stick around. :lol:



The Brown Knight wrote:Hindsight is always 20/20.

Gillis took a risk on a Booth and lost (or is losing). Period.


Todd Bersnoozi - NOV 2, 2011 wrote:The questionable pickups right now would be Booth and Baltard; for Booth, it's still early and Ballard has played quite a bit better this year, but their contracts might handcup the team for a long time.


- I meant handcuff* :D

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8821
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:38 pm

The Excuse Train for Gillis is just a rolling like a runaway train. This guy can do know wrong with the CC alumni.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:43 pm

The Gillis part of the current team

Higgins
Santorelli
Richardson
Sestito
Booth
Kassian
Welsh
Weise

Hamhius
Garrison
Tanev
Stanton

Lack

The Past MGMT's part of the current team

Hank Sedin
Dank Sedin
Burrows
Kesler
Hansen

Bieksa
Edler

Luongo

Which grouping would you rather have?

In 6 years, Gillis mark on the team is pretty fucking dismal.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby dangler » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:12 pm

Higgins-Pass-good finish,versatile
Santorelli-Pass-Center depth that the team needed
Richardson-On-the-fence,Potentials their but not seeing it right now
Sestito-An unfortunate necessity for the team as long as staged fights are part of the game
Booth-FAIL-I know RD's a fan,but.....
Kassian-Pass,Big power forward,not even in his prime yet
Welsh-Meh
Weise-Pass-good 4th liner,tough and a bit of finish

Hamhius-Double Pass-Nuff said
Garrison-Pass-Salo's replacement,in a bit of a slump right now and needs to re-think his game a bit,skills are there
Tanev-Pass-The Gillis's best score (so far),he's looking a little beefier this year
Stanton-Pass-looking good so far

Lack-Pass-The Stork has looked good,Cory who?
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