Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby dbr » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:20 am

Me too.

So now I guess we just need to 1. find a team looking to jettison a 60-70 point player in their early 20s, 2. convince them that the Seguin deal is good precedent for the value of they player, 2a. except instead of a guy on the right side of 30 they're getting a guy on the wrong side, and 3. convince Burrows to waive his NTC.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby ESQ » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:42 am

herb wrote:
Hank wrote:Getting a boat load of draft picks by tanking or wheeling and dealing is a great accomplishment by any team! What you with them is another matter.


I disagree. Any idiot can tank and trade away assets for draft picks. Drafting, player development, schrewd signings, and the actual construction of a competitive team are where managers earn their keep.


Come on, any idiot can accumulate 17 first and second round picks over 2 years?

Nobody can stockpile like that! ...not even Regier, who has 9, not 17 (http://www.prosportstransactions.com/ho ... Sabres.htm)
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Southern_Canuck » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:57 am

ESQ wrote:Nobody can stockpile like that! ...not even Regier, who has 9, not 17 (http://www.prosportstransactions.com/ho ... Sabres.htm)


It looks like you missed dbr's post a page back...

dbr wrote:It's 17 picks covering the first two rounds from 2012-2015 - so including Grigorenko, Girgensons, McCabe, Ristolainen, Zadorov, Compher, Hurley and Bailey.


That is a lot of kicks at the can.

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Re: On Second Thought........

Postby The Brown Knight » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:22 am

Art Vandelay wrote: The team needs another high end forward who can preferably play centre . I'm talking about a guy who can score 20 - 25 goals and be a consistent threat on the 2nd line. Hanging your hat on Santorelli and Higgins to carry the mail won't cut it.


Agreed.

Having said that, I agree with Island Knucklehead's line of thought that our current cap situation has Gillis' hands tied......for this year atleast.

Thinking out loud, perhaps the best suggestion that I can come up with is to simply play things out this year.

Wait for guys like Horvat and Shinkaruk to become impact players either next year or the year after, and pray that the twins and Kesler maintain their current level of play. A combination of Booth being bought out + salary cap increasing, will give us far more options for next year and the year after.

Erhoff, as much as I do love the idea of having him back here, will be contracted until 39.
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Re: On Second Thought........

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:04 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:Thinking out loud, perhaps the best suggestion that I can come up with is to simply play things out this year.

Wait for guys like Horvat and Shinkaruk to become impact players either next year or the year after, and pray that the twins and Kesler maintain their current level of play. A combination of Booth being bought out + salary cap increasing, will give us far more options for next year and the year after.

Erhoff, as much as I do love the idea of having him back here, will be contracted until 39.


Pretty much sums it up. We don't have enough cap space to add a quality top-shelf player. Even if we did, we don't have the decent mid-range prospects, young players, or veterans without NTC's to move without seriously jeopardizing our future depth or current team make-up.

Like it or not, and many fans are too shortsighted to accept this, the Canucks are (and have been for a couple seasons) in a holding pattern until the cap goes back up and we re-stock the cupboards. Gillis can continue to make the David Booth type deals and hope they work out, but adding a sure-thing guy with any sort of cap hit or a potential future all-star just isn't an option we have at the moment.

Come the offseason it's a different story. A couple guys I would seriously consider (health-dependant) in UFA are Dave Bolland and if he somehow makes it to Free Agency, Ryan Callahan. I don't think we're going to have the cap money to go after guys like Gaborik, Vanek or Stastny, but a curious one-year reclamation project could be Dany Heatley.
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Re: On Second Thought........

Postby Jovocop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:13 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote:Thinking out loud, perhaps the best suggestion that I can come up with is to simply play things out this year.

Wait for guys like Horvat and Shinkaruk to become impact players either next year or the year after, and pray that the twins and Kesler maintain their current level of play. A combination of Booth being bought out + salary cap increasing, will give us far more options for next year and the year after.

Erhoff, as much as I do love the idea of having him back here, will be contracted until 39.


Pretty much sums it up. We don't have enough cap space to add a quality top-shelf player. Even if we did, we don't have the decent mid-range prospects, young players, or veterans without NTC's to move without seriously jeopardizing our future depth or current team make-up.

Like it or not, and many fans are too shortsighted to accept this, the Canucks are (and have been for a couple seasons) in a holding pattern until the cap goes back up and we re-stock the cupboards. Gillis can continue to make the David Booth type deals and hope they work out, but adding a sure-thing guy with any sort of cap hit or a potential future all-star just isn't an option we have at the moment.

Come the offseason it's a different story. A couple guys I would seriously consider (health-dependant) in UFA are Dave Bolland and if he somehow makes it to Free Agency, Ryan Callahan. I don't think we're going to have the cap money to go after guys like Gaborik, Vanek or Stastny, but a curious one-year reclamation project could be Dany Heatley.


You gotta be kidding. With his stupid comments about the Sedins, Bolland gotta be the last player that the Canucks should ever consider...
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Re: On Second Thought........

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:30 pm

Jovocop wrote:You gotta be kidding. With his stupid comments about the Sedins, Bolland gotta be the last player that the Canucks should ever consider...


It's what he's paid to do. I imagine the Blues would take Kesler on their team, despite his chirps about Backes' gf/wife (and Backes is on the record saying he'd like Kesler on his team). He's a guy you absolutely hate playing against, and those are the kind of guys I WANT on MY team.

He's also done nothing but win. World Junior Gold, Memorial Cup, 2 Stanley Cups. Elevates in the playoffs (.50 Regular season ppg vs. .64 playoff ppg). He's on the right side of 30, he's on pace for a career year, and I doubt the Leafs will have enough space to sign him after Phaneuf ($7.5), Franson, Gardiner and Reimer.

If I were the Canucks, and I was looking at making a stiffer team, I'd definitely consider (a healthy) Bolland.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby SKYO » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:18 pm

Possible ufa players who could be available by the deadline due to their team not in playoff contention, that this team could use:

gaborik, whitney, cammalleri, hemsky, stajan, moulson, ott, goc.

Whitney or Goc are the more realistic players we could get, but knowing MG he'll splurge and go get Cody Bass.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:00 pm

Again, do you want to give up the assets to grab one of this players for a playoff run? Given that most of us seem to agree we are not a true contender right now should we be parting with the assets for a high end rental? To me it would be crazy. If we could get a top 6 or high end D man with term sure. I just don't want to see MG pay deadline day prices for a soon to be FA top six. I' fine with the tinkering for depth deals at deadline but just not the price to land one of those guys.

I still believe that this team has to insert the younger guys and let them play. It may not make us what we want to be this year or even next but it can only help us from then on out.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:34 pm

I may be in the minor of this group and am just an arm chair GM/coach/QB but I would of kept a prospect or 2 on the team and got them the NHL experience they need. Then I would look at a legit run at the cup in 2 years.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:19 am

Reefer2 wrote:I may be in the minor of this group and am just an arm chair GM/coach/QB but I would of kept a prospect or 2 on the team and got them the NHL experience they need. Then I would look at a legit run at the cup in 2 years.



I couldn't agree more. Don't get me wrong, I want to win and I want to win now. But this re-signing makes me breath easier. We have this year and four after that to not only get that cup but to keep the retooling going. I don't want to blow that by giving away the legitimate prospects we finally have up front. I don't want to waste any first rounders unless it is for a legitimate top six with term. I mean I'd be tempted to part with a first for say a Yakupov. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Next season we have to see more of our kids in the line up. This year has been great seeing Tanev continue and the addition of Stanton. Maybe Jensen gets a shot once he is in game shape. Maybe JS has a good second half. Maybe Kassian keeps developing and shows more consistency.

I am more exited today with the announcement that the twins have re-signed and more hopeful for our future than at the start of the season. I don't want to see a re-build and now we don't need to.

Still a lot of work to do this year to get to contender status and I don't know if the deals are out there that will give us that but the one thing I know for sure is I don't want to see MG waste picks and prospects on any more rentals. Time and time again we have seen that deadline day is not the day to build a cup winning team.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby herb » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:33 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Next season we have to see more of our kids in the line up. This year has been great seeing Tanev continue and the addition of Stanton. Maybe Jensen gets a shot once he is in game shape. Maybe JS has a good second half. Maybe Kassian keeps developing and shows more consistency.


Exactamundu.

This isn't a make or break year for the team. We've seen deadline acquisitions and rental players fail in every which way, shape and form, and trading more future assets would be stupid. For once in a long while there is significant youth in the system, and as these players improve over the next months and years they should push themselves onto the Canucks, thus improving our depth.

This year, I think you give Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen, Stanton and Tanev every opportunity to step up to the plate and show if they can deliver. Next year, Gaunce, Horvat, Corrado and Shinkaruk are a year older and they will be better. Who knows, maybe one or two of them will be ready to contribute.

I think you build this team over the next 2-3 years on the assumption that some of these young players will turn into good players, and as that happens, this team's depth will greatly improve and we will have more expendable assets to help round out the roster. Maybe Tanev, Corrado and Stanton make one of our top four expendable and we can use that asset for forward help, for instance.
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