Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Strangelove » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:45 pm

Mondi wrote:The team is 10 games into the season, and they have

Daniel 2
Henrik 2
Kesler 3
Hansen 2
Higgins 2

That's a lot of top six guys on pace for 16 goal seasons.


The team is 14 games into the season, and they have

Daniel 5 = 29 goal pace
Henrik 3 = 18 goal pace (though 17 points in 14 games = 100-point pace) Image
Kesler 8 = 47 goal pace :wow:
Higgins 4 = 23 goal pace
Santorelli 4 = 23 goal pace
Richardson 4 = 23 goal pace

My oh my, that's a more offensive group than the Corner's Urinator Crew. :mex:

Mondi wrote:I would look at trading anyone on this team for offensive help, today. No one is untouchable. Nor should they be.

However, I'd be careful asking GMMG to make any trades as his track record suggests we'd probably do something like Shinkaruk and a first for Tomas Fleischmann!


Well at least Mikey doesn't... PANIC... like some folks wot?

LOFL but yeah let's fire Mikey and hire Mondi! :lol:
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:44 am

Stanton must be on pace for what like 50 points? Maybe we should trade him to Chicago for Saad?

How about Moulson with two tonight. Look for him to get Buffalo anther 1 st rounder near the deadline.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Meds » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:19 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Stanton must be on pace for what like 50 points? Maybe we should trade him to Chicago for Saad?

How about Moulson with two tonight. Look for him to get Buffalo anther 1 st rounder near the deadline.


Speaking of Buffalo.....

It would appear that the Sabers are about to enter a full rebuild mode, or very near to that at least, so would it be worth it to approach them about Ehrhoff? We know he fit in with the core of this team, and we have seen the difference he made to our breakout and PP, just a thought, but given his age, if Buffalo is going the rebuild route, do you think Booth + 2nd rounder + _______ would be enough to get him back? Booth's cap hit and Ehrhoffs pretty much cancel.

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Ehrhoff
Garrison - Tanev
Stanton
Corrado

Waive Alberts.

I'd like that.
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On Second Thought........

Postby The Brown Knight » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:48 am

After thinking about it a little more, I have come to the realization that suggesting an Erhoff for Shinkark/Booth deal would be extremely ill-advised.

On one hand - Erhoff would have greatly aided our team's power-play (while making us less susceptible to injuries on defense), but at the same time, I really believe that this team will have another "window" IF Shinkaruk and Horvat become impact players (sometime between 2014-2016) during a time period in which the twins and Kesler are still playing at their current levels.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hank » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:46 am

Apparently, the Sabres have stockpiled 17 first and second rounders up to 2015. Yeah they're bad now, but if you're going to rebuild through the draft it's good to suck for a few years.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby dbr » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:34 am

Hank wrote:Apparently, the Sabres have stockpiled 17 first and second rounders up to 2015. Yeah they're bad now, but if you're going to rebuild through the draft it's good to suck for a few years.


It's 17 picks covering the first two rounds from 2012-2015 - so including Grigorenko, Girgensons, McCabe, Ristolainen, Zadorov, Compher, Hurley and Bailey.

But yeah the Sabres are traditionally pretty decent drafters so it will be interesting to see if they can do the crash and burn rebuild the right way.

That being said it is going to be a tall order trying to keep the stink of losing off of that franchise. They are already in a tough spot with guys like Pominville and Vanek being auctioned off with Miller (who has clearly checked out of the team mentally) on his way behind them, key parts of the roster like Hodgson (sorry Vader) and Stafford obviously not interested in competing in every part of the rink or every night..

My guess is they will make a token effort to stay competitive or at least "tough" while they wait all these drafts out, and hope to get a player like McDavid or someone else who can drag the rest of the young prospects out of the basement like a player like John Tavares has in Long Island. Whether they'll ever be as good as they were when they had Briere, Drury, Vanek, Miller, Campbell, etc remains to be seen of course.

Tell you what, I'd rather watch someone else's team going this route than ours.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hank » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:47 pm

dbr wrote:It's 17 picks covering the first two rounds from 2012-2015 - so including Grigorenko, Girgensons, McCabe, Ristolainen, Zadorov, Compher, Hurley and Bailey.

But yeah the Sabres are traditionally pretty decent drafters so it will be interesting to see if they can do the crash and burn rebuild the right way.

That being said it is going to be a tall order trying to keep the stink of losing off of that franchise. They are already in a tough spot with guys like Pominville and Vanek being auctioned off with Miller (who has clearly checked out of the team mentally) on his way behind them, key parts of the roster like Hodgson (sorry Vader) and Stafford obviously not interested in competing in every part of the rink or every night..

My guess is they will make a token effort to stay competitive or at least "tough" while they wait all these drafts out, and hope to get a player like McDavid or someone else who can drag the rest of the young prospects out of the basement like a player like John Tavares has in Long Island. Whether they'll ever be as good as they were when they had Briere, Drury, Vanek, Miller, Campbell, etc remains to be seen of course.

Tell you what, I'd rather watch someone else's team going this route than ours.


Thanks Dave, I was like, what?! 17 first & second rounders to come and they want to fire the GM?!

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. When you've stunk for awhile and don't really have a long history of winning, it's not easy to lose the stench. That being said, we've had a history of being foul-smelling and if it wasn't for some serious luck in 99, we wouldn't have had this decade long success.

So for most franchises that are rebuilding this way, it just makes sense to ship off all the vets and let the kids struggle and hope the fan base is supportive until brighter days. I think the Sabres are astute enough not to try to draft like the Oilers.

While we're still competitive I prefer to watch someone else's team go through this route, but at some point by necessity or otherwise, we're going to have to suffer through this as well. It amazes me that we as a franchise have never really gone this route... either by lack of a plan, incompetent management or both.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby herb » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:06 pm

We have a mobile, physical, two-way top four. We have two young bottom pairing guys on affordable salaries who have shown they belong in the NHL. We have Corrado in Utica who is perhaps a year or two away.

When I look at our defense, I don't see a group that needs tinkering let along major changes. There are several other areas of concern to worry about if I'm GM, including depth at centre ice, scoring help, bottom six depth and prospect depth.

The team may be playing well now, but there still needs to be some urgency to enhance our forward prospect depth. The lack of guys pushing their way up from Utica is hurting Gillis' ability to ice a competent forward group (Sestito on the third line).
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby herb » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:09 pm

Hank wrote:Thanks Dave, I was like, what?! 17 first & second rounders to come and they want to fire the GM?!


I'm not so sure tanking it an acquiring a boat load of draft picks is much of an accomplishment. That incompetent bunch in Edmonton pulled that feat off, and it still hasn't gotten them out of the cellar.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hank » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:28 pm

herb wrote:
Hank wrote:Thanks Dave, I was like, what?! 17 first & second rounders to come and they want to fire the GM?!


I'm not so sure tanking it an acquiring a boat load of draft picks is much of an accomplishment. That incompetent bunch in Edmonton pulled that feat off, and it still hasn't gotten them out of the cellar.


Getting a boat load of draft picks by tanking or wheeling and dealing is a great accomplishment by any team! What you with them is another matter.

But I did say that the Sabres will probably be more astute to not try to draft, develop and put in a system like the Oilers. As DBR mentioned, they did once have great success with guys like Briere, Drury, Vanek, Miller, etc.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby herb » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:00 pm

Hank wrote:Getting a boat load of draft picks by tanking or wheeling and dealing is a great accomplishment by any team! What you with them is another matter.


I disagree. Any idiot can tank and trade away assets for draft picks. Drafting, player development, schrewd signings, and the actual construction of a competitive team are where managers earn their keep.
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Re: On Second Thought........

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:02 am

The Brown Knight wrote:After thinking about it a little more, I have come to the realization that suggesting an Erhoff for Shinkark/Booth deal would be extremely ill-advised.


Extremely ill advised and also completely fucking retarded. There is nothing wrong with the D . They aren't moving a top 4 guy because they all have ntc and if they did move one and someone got hurt they would be fucked. I could see Chris Tanev being in play if the right forward became available.

The team needs another high end forward who can preferably play centre . I'm talking about a guy who can score 20 - 25 goals and be a consistent threat on the 2nd line. Hanging your hat on Santorelli and Higgins to carry the mail won't cut it.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:29 am

Ya, to make a hockey trade to get a legitimate top six will cost us one of Tanev or Corrado plus a high draft pick, at least. They don't come cheap. I'm thinking along the lines of Seguin type player. There are others that may come at that price as well, like Braydon Schenn but as much promise as he has if we pull the trigger at a high price we really need a proven scorer.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby SKYO » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:25 am

Brownknight you should just rename this thread

Hank wrote:Apparently, the Sabres have stockpiled 17 first and second rounders up to 2015. Yeah they're bad now, but if you're going to rebuild through the draft it's good to suck for a few years.

Yeah I think the Sabres want to go after McDavid imho.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:55 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Ya, to make a hockey trade to get a legitimate top six will cost us one of Tanev or Corrado plus a high draft pick, at least. They don't come cheap. I'm thinking along the lines of Seguin type player. There are others that may come at that price as well, like Braydon Schenn but as much promise as he has if we pull the trigger at a high price we really need a proven scorer.


Well the price for Seguin was Eriksson (70 point guy), 2011 1st rounder Joe Morrow, 2009 3rd rounder Reilly Smith and Minor Leaguer Matt Fraser. Dallas also got 3rd line guy Rich Peverly and ECHL player Ryan Button.

So if we're looking for a potential Seguin-esque return, it probably looks like Burrows, Jensen, McNally and Sauve going the other way. For a player of Seguin's talent and potential (party issues aside) and another serviceable top-9 player, I'd do that deal.
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