Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby herb » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:25 pm

Vader wrote:There was a better market for him than some want to admit


C'mon...there's no evidence of that. Look at the Varlamov, Halak and Bernier trades.

Goalies just aren't worth the top six player we were hoping for.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Vader » Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:45 pm

herb wrote:
Vader wrote:There was a better market for him than some want to admit


C'mon...there's no evidence of that. Look at the Varlamov, Halak and Bernier trades.

Goalies just aren't worth the top six player we were hoping for.


Of course their no "evidence" - none of us were in on what happened. But if you believe Gillis was intent on trading Luongo all along and then was forced to change his mind at the draft when it finally became apparent to him he couldn't move Luongo then I don't know how one could logically conclude that Gillis received maximum value for Schneider. You never receive maximum value in any kind of a deal when you're the one working against the clock (i.e. Gillis needed to move a goalie before free agency and teams spent all their cap space). Gillis did that to himself! No one else did it!

Varlamov and Bernier aren't in Schneider's class IMHO. Halak had pretty good value coming off his playoff run.

Who said a top six forward was a requirement for Schneider? How about a high end NHL ready prospect vs a draft pick who needs seasoning to be ready?

Other than the Edmonton rumoured deal, this was the best Gillis could do at that time. But that's only because he mismanaged the situation from day one
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:33 pm

I do agree, again using hindsight, that MG missed the ball on this one. But what about 29 other GMs, a number of whom could have and still need an upgrade in net, for failing to land one of our keepers? Everyone and Dan's Uncle knew Luongo could have been had for a song. How many of those GMs were on the phone daily to MG making serious offers for CS? If you are a team in serious need of an upgrade in net and Vancouver has two starters and you know odds are that one will be traded at the draft then if you are a GM worth your salt you are doing what it takes to get one of those guys. Several GMs interviewed after the fact say they didn't know CS was a vailable. How can they not know that?

I'm not totally defending MG, he made mistakes and he is very fortunate that both Luongo and CS were extreme professionals throughout this period. Look at Marty already getting pissed. My point is that even though he made mistakes you have to look at the whole picture. Easy for us to say he should have traded Luongo 1-2 years earlier or he should have gotten a better return for CS. But other teams have got to want to play too?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby tantalum » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:07 pm

wrong thread
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Topper » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:40 pm

Interesting this goaltender trade value debate resurfaces at the same time an excellent article is linked on ESPN

• The good young goalie who's pretty much considered a sure thing. This guy will come with a high price, usually a first-round pick (Varlamov, Schneider) or multiple prospects (Halak).

• The good young goalie who hasn't had the opportunity to fully prove himself. He'll probably get you a second-rounder (Bernier, Bishop, Lindback, Huet) or a prospect (Raycroft).13

• The dependable but unspectacular veteran who can usually be had relatively cheaply. Guys like Chris Mason, Jocelyn Thibault, and Steve Mason all went for a mix of midround picks and role players coming back the other way.14

• The apparently dependable veteran who turns out to be a lot more than that. This would include Sergei Bobrovsky and Kari Lehtonen — two guys who were both dealt in their mid-twenties and can serve as our cautionary examples of what can happen when trading away a youngish goalie goes horribly wrong.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby BigTuna » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:08 pm

Goalies have crappy value. even the good ones.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Vader » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:52 am

BigTuna wrote:Goalies have crappy value. even the good ones.


I take it you're an expert on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtBuW_6in_o

2007-Jun-22 Vesa Toskala traded from San Jose Sharks with Mark Bell to Toronto Maple Leafs for round 1 pick in the 2007 draft , round 2 pick in the 2007 draft and round 4 pick in the 2009 draft

2006-Jun-24 Andrew Raycroft traded from Boston Bruins to Toronto Maple Leafs for rights to Tuukka Rask
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby BigTuna » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:55 am

Vader wrote:
BigTuna wrote:Goalies have crappy value. even the good ones.


I take it you're an expert on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtBuW_6in_o

2007-Jun-22 Vesa Toskala traded from San Jose Sharks with Mark Bell to Toronto Maple Leafs for round 1 pick in the 2007 draft , round 2 pick in the 2007 draft and round 4 pick in the 2009 draft

2006-Jun-24 Andrew Raycroft traded from Boston Bruins to Toronto Maple Leafs for rights to Tuukka Rask


Thank you JFJ

But hey we're set for years now in net.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Tiger » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:02 am

BigTuna wrote:Goalies have crappy value. even the good ones.

hmm seems we pay a hell of a lot more for goalies than we ever get back :)
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby herb » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:20 pm

Topper wrote:• The good young goalie who's pretty much considered a sure thing. This guy will come with a high price, usually a first-round pick (Varlamov, Schneider) or multiple prospects (Halak).


Thanks Topper. I rest my case.

The Schneider trade garnered fair value in that the return was similar to the Varlamov and Halak trades.

Did most fans think we could not only trade Luongo but also get significant value? Yes. Did Gillis misread the goalie market? Yes.

At the end of the day, this organization will be fine with Luongo for the next several years and with Lack, Cannata and Ericsson coming down the pipe.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:48 pm

I hate Gillis but I'm all in on his trade Schneider, keep Lou decision. Got a pretty damn good prospect in return. Eller looks like a beaut but I think St. Louis is just as happy as the Canadians. I think Horvat will be a better player than Eller. Didn't the Capitals draft Filip Forsberg with the Colorado pick?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:39 pm

The Islanders make a big splash and the rebuild is on in Buffalo.

Buffalo trades Thomas Vanek to the Islanders for Matt Moulson, a First in 2014, and a Second in 2015.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=435220

Seems a bit odd, considering Moulson has more goals, and the same amount of points in fewer games. He also makes $3.133M compared to Vanek's $7.14. Both are UFA at the end of the season.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:10 pm

Wow

Vanek has way more top shelf talent than Moulson

Could be a deadly combo with one of the best young player in the game in Tavares

Buffalo is gonna stink for awhile. Likely destination for Sam Reinhart and Connor McDavid
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby BigTuna » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:14 pm

Buffalo is moving into a new arena soon enough. it's time for them to try to contend.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby BurningBeard » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:14 pm

Really makes me wonder if Buffalo's shopping Ehrhoff (you'd think they must be). With 3 points in 13 games I also wonder how much interest there is, even from the Canucks. Cap hit isn't horrible at $4 mil, but his contract goes until 2021, and he has a NMC / NTC.
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