All things Mike Gillis

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All things Mike Gillis

Postby SKYO » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:16 pm

What GMMG has done has been said ad nauseam, but here is some more thorough lists!

Keep in mind that at the year-end presser Gillis stated that he is going to hit the reset button on this franchise like he did when he first came into the organization.

Well, the resetting process back in 2008 was an overhaul/mass hiring of the guys that surround the GM.

Is the same concept in play? Maybe.
http://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2013/5/12/4323514/the-history-of-mike-gillis-tenure-with-the-canucks


Top10 moves:
http://canucksarmy.com/2012/10/5/the-to ... gillis-era
http://canucksarmy.com/2012/10/8/the-to ... era-part-2

As the 2013/14 season starts..
Besides the striking coaching change, the personnel is noticeably younger (and cheaper), but none of the players added are considered high level prospects. This team, on paper, is worse than the prior – older at the core, younger at the fringes, but lacking the addition of youthful talent with significant upside, who are deemed, for the time being anyway, not ready. The younger fringe players added should be a compliment to a Tortorella system that will simply require his troops to be more energetic. But the lack of scoring depth could be disastrous if there is a single significant injury to the top six forward group. The same lack of depth applies to their goaltending, as well.

Suffice is to say, the term “organizational reset” is typical Mike Gillis spin doctoring. The mandate for new coach Tortorella is clear – push the buttons of the senior core players with the aim of getting more out of them before their clocks expire.
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/10/02/canucks-opening-day-player-by-player-preview-part-one/
http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/10/03/canucks-opening-day-player-by-player-preview-part-two/


Anyways I think team is has a good core but this core seems like it desperately needs and wants a retooling, nothing major but something to shake it up a bit.

It's clear as night and day that we still need a 2nd line that can produce plus we still need a premier 3rd shutdown line (Higgins _______ Hansen) that can be used in ANY situation and succeed, enabling Kesler to solely concentrate on scoring.

Personally I think if the aquobros bring in a new GM he will quickly realize this and deftly make a couple trades to bring this core closer to cup contender status.

Enough projects and hopefuls that never pan out, go for proven skill and surround the Sedins and Kesler with some frickin talent! Or else the owners will finally have enough and ship MG out after the 2014 season.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Meds » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:55 pm

SKYO wrote:It's clear as night and day that we still need a 2nd line that can produce plus we still need a premier 3rd shutdown line (Higgins _______ Hansen) that can be used in ANY situation and succeed, enabling Kesler to solely concentrate on scoring.


Yeah. Good post up until there.....no offence SKYO, but I think you need to see a doctor about your perma-hard-on for Kesler. You overrate this guy badly.

All Kesler has done for 2 seasons is focus on scoring. It hasn't panned out. Sure, he played hurt, had surgery, but honestly I think it's time we took accepted the reality that Kesler is NOT a guy that can carry a scoring line and put up points. He is too one-dimensional that way. Yeah, I know, he scored 41 goals in 2010-11.....but I think 15 of them came on the PP with the Sedins, a PP that had Ehrhoff on the point.

I'm not saying Kesler is a shitty player. We would be worse without him. But I do think he is best suited to shutdown opposing top lines and score on turnovers. Since 2010-11 he has tied to be an offensive beast and has forgotten that side of his game that made him so effective. Well, maybe not forgotten, just put it on the back burner.

The other thing Gillis needs to do is swallow his pride and do away with his personal policy of not asking a player to waive their NTC.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby dbr » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:43 am

All Kesler has done for two years has been try to play through injuries. Pretty tough to draw reasonable conclusions about who he is and will be as a player in light of that.

We'll see what happens this season if he is/remains healthy, but it's obvious that this team needs to be able to roll three lines to be able to stay at the top of this league (whether Kesler is part of a "shutdown line" or a "scoring line" is immaterial), we haven't been able to do that without some very particular line matching since the 2010-11 season.

As for "go for proven skill" or "ship MG out after the 2014 season," it seems like Gillis and ownership are more or less on the same page so after a season where Gillis pretty well telegraphed his intention to retool with the current core I have a hard time believing he is going to be shitcanned for failing to go on a trade deadline shopping spree or anything else that would decimate the prospect depth he's built up over the last couple of years and that will start actually contributing to the team over the next couple.

Seems pretty evident that this year is about repositioning and not about loading up for another run.. hopefully developments over the course of this season are positive enough that the team considers it for next year but if the cap does not go up enough, or if sufficient space for a big addition cannot be cleared, or if players in the system appear to stagnate, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Meds » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:27 pm

Looking at the top teams in the league, nobody has committed more cap space to their top 4 defensemen than Gillis has. Most teams have one or 2 guys making over $4M, then it drops to the $3.5M range and below. They run with two or three guys who can log 22+ minutes and then fill in where they need to. Cap space is then managed and dealt out to the forwards who drive the bus.

Gillis does need to shop one of Edler or Hamhuis. Bieksa is a consideration but I think he would need to make sure he replaces with a right-handed guy which makes things tougher.

Edler
Hamhuis
Higgins
Booth

Those are the names I would be shopping if I was GMMG.

Kesler would be a name in the mix, but only if it was for an amazing return.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby dbr » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:59 pm

Meds wrote:Looking at the top teams in the league, nobody has committed more cap space to their top 4 defensemen than Gillis has. Most teams have one or 2 guys making over $4M, then it drops to the $3.5M range and below. They run with two or three guys who can log 22+ minutes and then fill in where they need to. Cap space is then managed and dealt out to the forwards who drive the bus.


St. Louis has committed $2.2m more to their top four defensemen, $3.14m more to their top five and over $4m more to their top six.

Chicago has committed just $0.48m less to their top four, $0.7m more to their top fix and $2.3ish more to their top six.

Los Angeles has committed about $1m less to their top four, $0.4m more to their top five and nearly $1m more to their top six.

So there are some of "the top teams in the league" doing more or less the same thing we are, unless you think spending $1m less on the #4 guy and $1m more on the #5 guy constitutes some kind of major difference.

I would expect you would find at least two of those teams in most people's top five and if you talk about say the top ten the Canucks are in the discussion too which basically means about half of the leagues "top teams" run an awfully similar cap allotment on the blueline.

This team needs a slight bump in the cap, a handful of contributing youngsters and if they could use a bit of that extra space plus what they're currently using for an older winger like Booth or Burrows to bring in another first/second liner that would be gravy. None of it is going to happen this season.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby SKYO » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:07 pm

Agreed with DBR here Meds concerning RK17..
dbr wrote:All Kesler has done for two years has been try to play through injuries. Pretty tough to draw reasonable conclusions about who he is and will be as a player in light of that.

We'll see what happens this season if he is/remains healthy, but it's obvious that this team needs to be able to roll three lines to be able to stay at the top of this league (whether Kesler is part of a "shutdown line" or a "scoring line" is immaterial), we haven't been able to do that without some very particular line matching since the 2010-11 season.
--
As for "go for proven skill" or "ship MG out after the 2014 season," it seems like Gillis and ownership are more or less on the same page...

I have a hard time believing he is going to be shitcanned for failing to go on a trade deadline shopping spree or anything else that would decimate the prospect depth...

Seems pretty evident that this year is about repositioning and not about loading up for another run...


Except it seems a tad ludicrous then to acquire another teams unproven older prospects and not let one of our better rookies play and develop in a repositioning year where we are NOT loading up for a run, especially with a gutter cheap cap.

Aside from that train of thought though imo with the Sedins here for another 4-6 years tops, I think we should be loading up every year while we have both Henrik and Kesler here as our top two pivots.

Just to clarify I'm not about gutting prospect depth or anything like that for a rental per se, but I'd be ok with a prospect/young gun trade if the player coming in return is still in his prime and just needs a change of scenery, ya know like that Schenn/Simmonds for Mike Richards type of deal.

I'm just tired of these MG pet projects of him trying to acquire a top power forward(Booth/Kassian), when all MG needs to do is acquire a top 6 scoring winger, basically just like what other Cup champs (Pens/Hawks) general managers do with surrounding their core players with the best players they can get to get over the top without sacrificing the farm all that much.

He's got some work to do for sure if he wants this team to finally reach the holy grail and I believe the owners have him on a short leash now, especially with that fcuked up Luongo situation still looming over this team like a dark cloud.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:03 pm

I don't mind the way Gillis has allocated his funding. For so many years the team had injury problems on the back end, that necessitated us having a deeper roster of d-men than other teams. Since then, he's also tried to add a more offensive set of D-men that can score goals.

Last season the Canucks D produced 28 goals. That would average out to about 48 goals over an 82 game season. Unless I'm missing something, only Montreal scored more goals from the back-end than Vancouver last year, with 29 (Winnipeg had 28 also). Subban and Markov combined for 21 goals.

St Louis' D produced 18 goals (30 over an 82 game season)
Chicago's D produced 23 goals (39 over 82 games)
LA's D produced produced 22 goals (37 over 82)

The biggest problem, imo, with our defensive corps is a lack of consistency. We have a solid top-4, but it seems like all of them are never going at once, and I think this is what leads to fans calling for us to move Edler (or Hamhuis, or Bieksa).
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Meds » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:47 pm

dbr wrote:
Meds wrote:Looking at the top teams in the league, nobody has committed more cap space to their top 4 defensemen than Gillis has. Most teams have one or 2 guys making over $4M, then it drops to the $3.5M range and below. They run with two or three guys who can log 22+ minutes and then fill in where they need to. Cap space is then managed and dealt out to the forwards who drive the bus.


St. Louis has committed $2.2m more to their top four defensemen, $3.14m more to their top five and over $4m more to their top six.

Chicago has committed just $0.48m less to their top four, $0.7m more to their top fix and $2.3ish more to their top six.

Los Angeles has committed about $1m less to their top four, $0.4m more to their top five and nearly $1m more to their top six.

So there are some of "the top teams in the league" doing more or less the same thing we are, unless you think spending $1m less on the #4 guy and $1m more on the #5 guy constitutes some kind of major difference.


Actually that was the point I was making.

Our top 4 guys all make $4.5M per year or more.

Gillis went for balance through the blueline corps.

St. Louis is close, I missed them.

But the other teams all have one thing we don't, a legitimate top pairing guy who can move the puck quickly and smartly under pressure.

San Jose: Dan Boyle - $6.6M
Pittsburgh: Kris Letang - $7.2M (next year).
Chicago: Duncan Keith - $5.5M and Brent Seabrook $5.8M
St. Louis: Alex Peitrangelo - $6.5M, Jay Bouwmeester - $6.8M, and Kevin Shattenkirk - $4.25M
Detroit: Niklas Kronwall - $4.7M
Boston: Zdeno Chara - $6.9M
Los Angeles: Drew Doughty - $7M

Obviously everyone would kill for St. Louis' blueline right now, their top 3 are shoe-ins as the top 1 and 2 on damned near every team. But those names are ALL upgrades on everyone on our roster when it comes to moving the puck out of the zone and transitioning with poise under pressure. Chara and Kronwall make the smart play to a forward who is in the right spot to support the puck. The other guys can all skate it up out of the zone themselves, create their own room to give them time to make the pass. And those guys are all very good at the point and can QB a powerplay.

Garrison is the only guy on our blueline who doesn't screw up under pressure every time he has the puck at the point or picks it up down low in his own zone. But he can't make room for himself, and he's not in the same league as those guys I listed when it comes to passing.

My point is that Gillis spread almost $19M evenly between 4 guys but was unwilling to give the same cap hit to Ehrhoff and let the only guy walk who was in a class with that list of defensemen when it came to transitioning quickly to offense and making the forecheckers think twice before over-committing. I have to say that Gillis really dropped the ball on the defense. Keeping Ballard, letting Ehrhoff walk, and then being stuck with a $5M airhead who can't play consistent hockey as the only real puck moving guy on the back end.....frustrating. I seriously wonder, if he hadn't been so sold on the balanced blueline approach, could he have gotten Weber out of Nashville with the right package? A game changer on the blueline.....dropped Edler and, Juice or Hamhuis, and still signed Garrison. It would have cost the team a hefty price.....oh well, no point dwelling on hypotheticals. Bottom line is that I think loading up your top pairing and then going with youth and some solid, stay home, no flash, conservative vets, is the way to go.

So, yes I do think it makes a difference when you can take $1.5M or so from your 3rd and 4th guys and give it to the top 2 guys.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:08 pm

I wonder if a certain someone could contain his bladder and anus and stop pissing and shitting all over every single thread and keep his teenage, whiny rants to one thread- like perhaps this one.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Strangelove » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:41 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I wonder if a certain someone could contain his bladder and anus and stop pissing and shitting all over every single thread and keep his teenage, whiny rants to one thread- like perhaps this one.


Makes one long for the good ole days when trolls could be voted off the Island eh Blobby? :D

Not sure how a certain someone went from a cool young dude to a miserable old bitch in a mere 2 decades.

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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:59 am

Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:I wonder if a certain someone could contain his bladder and anus and stop pissing and shitting all over every single thread and keep his teenage, whiny rants to one thread- like perhaps this one.


Makes one long for the good ole days when trolls could be voted off the Island eh Blobby? :D

Not sure how a certain someone went from a cool young dude to a miserable old bitch in a mere 2 decades.


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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:56 am

RD was right, Gillis sucks! :lol:
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:58 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:RD was right, Gillis sucks! :lol:



Wow you must be a riot at communions and bar mitzvahs .

So tell us what did RD have for breakfast this morning.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby dbr » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:06 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
Todd Bersnoozi wrote:RD was right, Gillis sucks! :lol:



Wow you must be a riot at communions and bar mitzvahs .

So tell us what did RD have for breakfast this morning.


He won't know that until it's a little bit further down the digestive tract.
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Re: All things Mike Gillis

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:52 pm

:lol:

Not sure why some of the people get so riled up about Samsonite Eyes. He's fucked up a bit here and there but by and large he has been a decent GM.
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