Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Strangelove » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:06 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:Sorry Whinestein


Leontardo da Vinci?

Art, welcome to the boards, I apologize for my friend, every village has one.

For the record, I edited Art’s post to “Whinestein”, just saying cuz I don't wanna besmirch his classy rep.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The_Pauser » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:15 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:RD are you the board clown ? San Jose is one of the few teams with poorer prospects than Vancouver. Other than Hertl there is fuck all coming up through their system.


What's with the name calling? Rude and unprofessional?

Let's look at the last 4 drafts, no need to go back to the Couture and Pavelski draft gems of Dougy Wilson's

Sharks 1st round picks

2010 - Coyle (traded to Minny where he now excels for the massive Brent Burns)
2011 - Nieto (has 1 goal and 2 assists with Sharks)
2012 - Hertl ( nuff said)
2013 - Mueller

Canucks 1st round picks

2010 - pick traded to Florida with Grabner for Minnesotas - Keith Ballard
2011 - Jensen
2012- Gaunce
2013 - Shinkaruk ( don't count Horvat cause he came via Nonis 1st round pick - Schneider)

Proof
Is
In
The
Pudding


What the hell?

Well I don't count any of the Sharks 1st round picks because they got those draft slots because Patrick Marleau helped them get those draft slots due to performance and he's a Dean Lombardi draft pick.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby dbr » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:51 am

When even Pauser is having a field day with your selective reasoning... :lol:
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Meds » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:07 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:An idea I had in mind was.....

To Buffalo: Alex Edler, Chris Higgins, Jannik Hansen
To Vancouver: Steve Ott, Thomas Vaneck.


As you know VERY well having been here for a while, I am all for moving out Edler. At this point, however, I believe that if we move a top 4 defenseman it should bring back a top 4 defenseman in return. One of our biggest problems against teams that attack us hard and fast, the way we saw San Jose do in our two meetings this season, is that our defenseman often fumble the puck or make a shitty pass that can't be handled quickly, if that problem can be rectified then teams like the Sharks would have to back off or risk getting burned by a quick transition.

Steve Ott is not worth it, at least not for us. Kesler should be moved back into the shutdown center role that he was in for 2010-11. He excelled there. Nobody wanted to play against him because he was so tenacious on the forecheck and backcheck. We all saw it, he shutdown the best players in the league, and he did it very well. He was out on the PP with the Sedins, and he put up his scoring numbers with them and off of some forced turnovers and hard work. Now he tries to carry the puck in and make moves like Crosby or Ovechkin, he's not that kind of player, and until the coaching staff in Vancouver recognizes that for Kesler to be effective he needs to be aimed in the right direction, then trying to complement Kesler and build a second scoring unit around him is a waste of time and cap space. He's too selfish with the puck and doesn't seem to use his linemates well at all, no matter who they are. Last night his line was the only line doing anything in the San Jose zone in the first half of the game because they were the only line that was able to attack a dump in and create a turnover that prevented the Sharks from breaking out. When he was trying to carry it in to the zone nothing happened other than the puck going to the corner or back out of the zone with the Sharks.

I would suggest getting a puck moving defenseman in exchange for Edler.

To BUF: Edler + Corrado or Tanev

To VAN: Ehrhoff + Weber

When healthy I think we can move a top 6 forward for another top 6 forward. It is our bottom 6 that needs work. I would start by waiving Sestito.

*My idea is based on making a deal with a team where players are dealt because a fresh start is thought to make for an improvement for both the players and their respective new clubs.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Vader » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:17 pm

Meds wrote:As you know VERY well having been here for a while, I am all for moving out Edler.


Fuck off!

Really?

No clue you felt that way

BTW - look at how Tortorella distributes ice time. at least he's not giving Edler's tonnes of icetime like that moron AV :lol:
POS NAME GP G A PTS +/- PPG SHG GWG PIM SHOTS PCT ATOI
D Alexander Edler 5 1 2 3 -2 0 0 0 6 12 8.33 24:56
D Kevin Bieksa 5 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 2 9 0.00 22:53
D Jason Garrison 5 2 3 5 -3 1 1 0 4 14 14.29 22:46
L Daniel Sedin 5 2 4 6 1 1 0 0 4 22 9.09 21:36
C Henrik Sedin 5 0 6 6 3 0 0 0 4 10 0.00 21:14
D Dan Hamhuis 5 1 1 2 -3 0 0 0 0 4 25.00 21:13
C Ryan Kesler 5 1 0 1 -4 0 0 0 11 16 6.25 20:08
L Alexandre Burrows 1 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 18:34
L Chris Higgins 5 0 1 1 -3 0 0 0 0 18 0.00 18:27
C Mike Santorelli 5 4 0 4 1 0 0 2 2 9 44.44 17:19
D Christopher Tanev 5 0 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 6 0.00 17:06
R Jannik Hansen 5 2 0 2 -3 0 0 1 8 7 28.57 17:05
L David Booth 5 1 1 2 2 0 0 0 0 8 12.50 16:10
R Brad Richardson 5 1 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 3 33.33 13:58
D Ryan Stanton 5 0 3 3 2 0 0 0 2 4 0.00 13:26
R Dale Weise 5 1 0 1 -3 0 0 0 2 5 20.00 11:16
L Tom Sestito 5 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 7 2 0.00 5:02
D Yannick Weber 4 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 4:32
C Zac Dalpe 5 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 3 0.00 4:19
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Meds » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:37 pm

Vader wrote:
Meds wrote:As you know VERY well having been here for a while, I am all for moving out Edler.


Fuck off!

Really?

No clue you felt that way


Really Vader? Thought you'd been around for a while. :look:

:P

Vader wrote:BTW - look at how Tortorella distributes ice time. at least he's not giving Edler's tonnes of icetime like that moron AV :lol:
POS NAME GP G A PTS +/- PPG SHG GWG PIM SHOTS PCT ATOI
D Alexander Edler 5 1 2 3 -2 0 0 0 6 12 8.33 24:56
D Kevin Bieksa 5 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 2 9 0.00 22:53
D Jason Garrison 5 2 3 5 -3 1 1 0 4 14 14.29 22:46
L Daniel Sedin 5 2 4 6 1 1 0 0 4 22 9.09 21:36
C Henrik Sedin 5 0 6 6 3 0 0 0 4 10 0.00 21:14
D Dan Hamhuis 5 1 1 2 -3 0 0 0 0 4 25.00 21:13
C Ryan Kesler 5 1 0 1 -4 0 0 0 11 16 6.25 20:08
L Alexandre Burrows 1 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 18:34
L Chris Higgins 5 0 1 1 -3 0 0 0 0 18 0.00 18:27
C Mike Santorelli 5 4 0 4 1 0 0 2 2 9 44.44 17:19
D Christopher Tanev 5 0 2 2 1 0 0 0 0 6 0.00 17:06
R Jannik Hansen 5 2 0 2 -3 0 0 1 8 7 28.57 17:05
L David Booth 5 1 1 2 2 0 0 0 0 8 12.50 16:10
R Brad Richardson 5 1 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 3 33.33 13:58
D Ryan Stanton 5 0 3 3 2 0 0 0 2 4 0.00 13:26
R Dale Weise 5 1 0 1 -3 0 0 0 2 5 20.00 11:16
L Tom Sestito 5 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 7 2 0.00 5:02
D Yannick Weber 4 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 4:32
C Zac Dalpe 5 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 0 3 0.00 4:19


I've been trying NOT to look at that. :crazy:
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Uncle dans leg » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:20 pm

The only Weber I want coming back is Shea. Edler and whatever for Shea Weber. :thumbs:
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby SKYO » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:36 pm

Top4? how about a youthful trade like Tanev for Matthias.

Bring up Corrado.

Florida is all of a sudden stocked with vibrant centers and have Goc to play the vet defensive center.
But they have a aging d-corps, with a lot of UFAs coming up next offseason similar to what the Wild have/had.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Meds » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:46 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:The only Weber I want coming back is Shea. Edler and whatever for Shea Weber. :thumbs:


Well yeah.....no shit. :bounce:
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:00 am

Meds the team is not trading Edler. Even though he made a bonehead play getting suspended, he is the teams best d man. Wake up my friend. :sly: Team needs all the d man they have and maybe that won't be good enough, yet you want to flip our best one for a bum like Ehrhoff. The Canucks are one good forward away from being a cup contender. THAT is the problem that is most concerning to the intelligent fans.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:31 am

Meds wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote:An idea I had in mind was.....

To Buffalo: Alex Edler, Chris Higgins, Jannik Hansen
To Vancouver: Steve Ott, Thomas Vaneck.


As you know VERY well having been here for a while, I am all for moving out Edler. At this point, however, I believe that if we move a top 4 defenseman it should bring back a top 4 defenseman in return. One of our biggest problems against teams that attack us hard and fast, the way we saw San Jose do in our two meetings this season, is that our defenseman often fumble the puck or make a shitty pass that can't be handled quickly, if that problem can be rectified then teams like the Sharks would have to back off or risk getting burned by a quick transition.

Steve Ott is not worth it, at least not for us. Kesler should be moved back into the shutdown center role that he was in for 2010-11. He excelled there. Nobody wanted to play against him because he was so tenacious on the forecheck and backcheck. We all saw it, he shutdown the best players in the league, and he did it very well. He was out on the PP with the Sedins, and he put up his scoring numbers with them and off of some forced turnovers and hard work. Now he tries to carry the puck in and make moves like Crosby or Ovechkin, he's not that kind of player, and until the coaching staff in Vancouver recognizes that for Kesler to be effective he needs to be aimed in the right direction, then trying to complement Kesler and build a second scoring unit around him is a waste of time and cap space. He's too selfish with the puck and doesn't seem to use his linemates well at all, no matter who they are. Last night his line was the only line doing anything in the San Jose zone in the first half of the game because they were the only line that was able to attack a dump in and create a turnover that prevented the Sharks from breaking out. When he was trying to carry it in to the zone nothing happened other than the puck going to the corner or back out of the zone with the Sharks.

I would suggest getting a puck moving defenseman in exchange for Edler.

To BUF: Edler + Corrado or Tanev

To VAN: Ehrhoff + Weber

When healthy I think we can move a top 6 forward for another top 6 forward. It is our bottom 6 that needs work. I would start by waiving Sestito.

*My idea is based on making a deal with a team where players are dealt because a fresh start is thought to make for an improvement for both the players and their respective new clubs.



Hey Meds,

I love the idea of bringing Erhoff back but I don't see Buffalo doing it. I'm also not sure if I see Gillis doing it since in doing so, he will be openly admitting that he made a mistake.

Who knows though.

Would absolutely love to see Erhoff be back here though.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:50 am

Art Vandelay wrote:Meds the team is not trading Edler. Even though he made a bonehead play getting suspended, he is the teams best d man. Wake up my friend. :sly: Team needs all the d man they have and maybe that won't be good enough, yet you want to flip our best one for a bum like Ehrhoff. The Canucks are one good forward away from being a cup contender. THAT is the problem that is most concerning to the intelligent fans.


But you said it yourself Art.

The Canucks are one more good top 6 forward away from being a legit contender (I would argue that they are one good top 6 winger AND another honest center from being a contender, but I think we're driving at the same point).

So as it relates to my hypothetical, why NOT atleast inquire about the availability of Thomas Vaneck and Steve Ott?......given the direction Buffalo's GM may want to take this team?

Guys like Vaneck and Ott won't be given up easily, and so players like Edler and Hansen would have to be offered (and, Higgins per se........all in all, almost reciprocal cap hits if you add everything up.......give or take a few hundred thousand dollars).

Then - you see how Kassian is developing. If Kassian improves to the point this year where he can look good and comfortable playing on the top 6, then you can move a guy like Burrows for a legit Top 4 d-man.......and hence, replacing the loss of Edler.

If Kassian does not show much progress, you can then try and move Booth in a "crap for crap" deal for a defenseman that wouldn't look completely out of place as a top 4 defenseman (I.e. a John Michael Liles type guy).


Ultimately.......

1) Par your suggestion Art, our overall forward core is improved due to significant upgrades in key areas.
2) We would still have 4 guys that could play top 4 on D.


Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Kassian-Kesler-Vaneck
****-Ott-Santorelli
*********4th line*******

Hamhuis-Garrison
Tanev-Bieksa
****** - (Booth deal....a guy that can comfortably step in Top 4 if injuries occur and not look out of place).

With Higgins, Hansen, and Booth gone, you could then bring up kids like Shinkaruk and Horvat to see how they fair. Given the success that guys like Monahan and Hertl are having so far with their respective teams, why couldn't Shinkaruk and Horvat do the same? Maybe I'm being biased, but I don't think any of those two looked out of place in training camp.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:02 am

At least get the name right... it's Tomas VANEK.

And you do realize that he is a UFA at the end of the season, and will probably want a long term deal at least at a rate of $7.5M per? Steve Ott is also a UFA.

Do you want Sedin-Sedin-Vanek accounting for 22-23M per year?

I also think Burrows-Hansen-Higgins would out-produce Vanek-Ott.

Realistically, you could trade Burrows, Hansen, Higgins and be left with nothing come July 1st.

While I think adding another bonafide sniper is a good idea, the price you're paying for a rental is disgustingly high.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:26 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:At least get the name right... it's Tomas VANEK.

And you do realize that he is a UFA at the end of the season, and will probably want a long term deal at least at a rate of $7.5M per? Steve Ott is also a UFA.

Do you want Sedin-Sedin-Vanek accounting for 22-23M per year?

I also think Burrows-Hansen-Higgins would out-produce Vanek-Ott.

Realistically, you could trade Burrows, Hansen, Higgins and be left with nothing come July 1st.

While I think adding another bonafide sniper is a good idea, the price you're paying for a rental is disgustingly high.


I'm still a better speller than Potatoe1. :P

Also - I edited the part about moving Burrows. After looking at it, I realized that moving Burrows would defeat the whole point......and we'd pretty much be the same team.....just different looking. I agree with you on that. I'd try and move Booth in a 'crap for crap' deal.

Making a move for Vaneck would be risky but when inquiring about a player and speaking to an agent, you can see what the players' primary motivation is (I.e. being on a contender, signing to the highest bidder, etc.). If it's the latter, then you don't make the deal. Period.

In Vaneck's case, I do suspect that he wants to play for a contender......and if you want to play for a contender, then there's an understanding there that you have to sign at slightly below market value. I would also suspect that would be the case for Ott, but who knows. Obviously, doing some due diligence before making a deal would be vital.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:29 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:At least get the name right... it's Tomas VANEK.

And you do realize that he is a UFA at the end of the season, and will probably want a long term deal at least at a rate of $7.5M per? Steve Ott is also a UFA.

Do you want Sedin-Sedin-Vanek accounting for 22-23M per year?

I also think Burrows-Hansen-Higgins would out-produce Vanek-Ott.

Realistically, you could trade Burrows, Hansen, Higgins and be left with nothing come July 1st.

While I think adding another bonafide sniper is a good idea, the price you're paying for a rental is disgustingly high.


Completely agree here. I think the Dark Indian has been into the mushroom tea coming up with deals like that. There are some decent 2nd tier forwards that will come available this between now and the deadline. Vancouver has a few decent pieces to dangle in Jensen, Gaunce, Schroeder and the 2014 1st. Does Gillis have the chops to make something happen ?

All of Brown KNights awesome trade proposals involve players with NTC . Maybe he is not familiar with what NTC stands for. :look: :roll:
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