Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:31 am

RoyalDude wrote:The 'add 2-4 good young players each season' you so eloquently described as a model of how to rebuild on the fly and still compete is exactly the model that my boi Dougy Wilson has been slaying in Jose, that kind of GM'ing is certainly not in the realm of what your boi Gillis is capable of. Proof is in pudding


Exactly.

The Proof is in the pudding.

Unless San Jose wins a Stanley Cup, or atleast gets to a cup final, I don't see how you can hold Doug Wilson in higher regard then you can Mike Gillis. It just makes no sense. Ditto for your extreme praise of the Flyers and Panthers........the proof is in the pudding. Until any of these organizations do better than a Game 7 appearance in the Stanley Cup Finals (along with having achieved practically every single accolade possible outside of a Stanley Cup, like the Gillis regime has), then you simply CANNOT hold any of these guys in higher regard than Mike Gillis.

Sorry Dude, but I'm not seeing where you're coming from on this.
Last edited by The Brown Knight on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:45 am

RD are you the board clown ? San Jose is one of the few teams with poorer prospects than Vancouver. Other than Hertl there is fuck all coming up through their system.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:52 am

Art Vandelay wrote:RD are you the board clown ? San Jose is one of the few teams with poorer prospects than Vancouver. Other than Hertl there is fuck all coming up through their system.


You can include Logan Couture and Joe Pavelski as Wilson's achievements (to the best of my knowledge, Wilson drafted both of them into San Jose), but the point still remains:

-San Jose hasn't won a cup, nor have they made it to the cup finals. Period.
-Florida hasn't won a cup, nor have they made it to the cup finals under their current regime. Period.
-Philadelphia hasn't won a cup. After dismantling a lot of their team from their cup run in 2010, they rebuilt.....and have had poor playoff showings........including last year where they were unable to qualify for the post-season.

Putting these teams on a higher pedastal than Mike Gillis' Canucks is ludicrous. Until a Stanley Cup is won, you simply cannot do that. On top of that - Gillis' regime has achieved practically every single accoloade outside of a Stanley Cup. Hart trophy winners, Art Ross winners, 2 Presidents' tophies, Selke Trophy, Jennings Trophy, Vezina finalist, and multiple divisonal and Conference titles. You CANNOT take that away from the Gillis regime......you simply CANNOT.

If Royaldude is looking to 'sing the praises' of a team that has done better than Mike Gillis' Canucks, then he should praise Chicago and Boston.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Tciso » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:57 am

Art Vandelay wrote:RD are you the board clown ?


You nailed it in just 10 posts! Congrats.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby CFP! » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:00 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
Exactly.

The Proof is in the pudding.


Jello pop pudding? :mrgreen:
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:09 pm

Tciso wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:RD are you the board clown ?


You nailed it in just 10 posts! Congrats.



Are you being sarcastic ? :scowl: I would be willing to engage RD in conversation if he loses the crass talk and the condecending tone.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Rumsfeld » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:11 pm

I'd say this thread smells like ass, but it's actually more of a Surrey temple aroma.

Which is worse than ass.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:17 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Tciso wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:RD are you the board clown ?


You nailed it in just 10 posts! Congrats.



Are you being sarcastic ? :scowl: I would be willing to engage RD in conversation if he loses the crass talk and the condecending tone.


I just don't get why he's so willing to praise Doug Wilson when the truth of the matter is that the Sharks still haven't made a cup finals. Until that time comes, this "hero worship" of Doug Wilson is non-sensical.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:20 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:I'd say this thread smells like ass, but it's actually more of a Surrey temple aroma.

Which is worse than ass.



Nice contribution. We're here to talk hockey and this is the drivel we get ?


Back to the topic moving Edler puts the team one injury away from having Tanev and Stanton in the top 4. I swear some people don't realize the importance of having defencemen that can actually play the game instead of scrubs that can just chip the puck off the glass.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:30 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:I'd say this thread smells like ass, but it's actually more of a Surrey temple aroma.

Which is worse than ass.



Nice contribution. We're here to talk hockey and this is the drivel we get ?


Back to the topic moving Edler puts the team one injury away from having Tanev and Stanton in the top 4. I swear some people don't realize the importance of having defencemen that can actually play the game instead of scrubs that can just chip the puck off the glass.


Fair enough.

I also concede the fact that an Edler for Hartnell deal is silly, and that I jumped the gun on that one.

Having said that - in my hypothetical (Edler/Hansen/Higgins for Vaneck/Ott) deal, I'm not suggesting that we trade Edler and then don't replace him at some point.

The idea I had in mind was that the Canucks make the deal, and then a little down the road, consider moving Booth or Burrows for a guy that can play top 4.......depending on how Kassian develops.

If Kassian develops to the point where he can comfortably play Top 6, move Burrows for a legit top 4 defenseman.

If Kassian is still moving slowly with his development, trade a guy like David Booth for an overpriced defenseman that wouldn't look completely out of place playing top 4 (i.e. a "crap for crap" deal). Booth for a guy like John Michael Liles was what I had in mind.

Again though - this is obviously all just fluff. Like you, I want to see the Canucks get better somehow and get back to their 2011 level. I believe the starting point for this is to have a top 6 forward that can play alongside Kesler (a guy like Vaneck), and a legit shut down center (a guy like Steve Ott).

Hockey Widow is correct that it's only a matter of time before Gaunce, Horvat, and Shinkaruk are ready to step up to the plate. However - can you imagine how unbelievably deep our forward lines would be if we had a developed Gaunce/Horvat/Shinks, AND Vaneck/Ott?

Burrows or Booth for a top 4 defenseman would round things out.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:57 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:RD are you the board clown ? San Jose is one of the few teams with poorer prospects than Vancouver. Other than Hertl there is fuck all coming up through their system.


What's with the name calling? Rude and unprofessional?

Let's look at the last 4 drafts, no need to go back to the Couture and Pavelski draft gems of Dougy Wilson's

Sharks 1st round picks

2010 - Coyle (traded to Minny where he now excels for the massive Brent Burns)
2011 - Nieto (has 1 goal and 2 assists with Sharks)
2012 - Hertl ( nuff said)
2013 - Mueller

Canucks 1st round picks

2010 - pick traded to Florida with Grabner for Minnesotas - Keith Ballard
2011 - Jensen
2012- Gaunce
2013 - Shinkaruk ( don't count Horvat cause he came via Nonis 1st round pick - Schneider)

Proof
Is
In
The
Pudding
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Tciso » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:03 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Tciso wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:RD are you the board clown ?


You nailed it in just 10 posts! Congrats.



Are you being sarcastic ? :scowl: I would be willing to engage RD in conversation if he loses the crass talk and the condecending tone.


not at all. RD can definitely be the class clown. Don't take him too seriously. And don't waste too much time having pointless arguments with him.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:10 pm

RoyalDude wrote:2013 - Shinkaruk ( don't count Horvat cause he came via Nonis 1st round pick - Schneider)


That's just dumb.

If Gillis had traded Schneider for a 7th round pick, you'd be talking about at great length.........and it would "count" in your eyes as another reason to attack Mike Gillis.

Can't have it both ways.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:21 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:2013 - Shinkaruk ( don't count Horvat cause he came via Nonis 1st round pick - Schneider)


That's just dumb.

If Gillis had traded Schneider for a 7th round pick, you'd be talking about at great length.........and it would "count" in your eyes as another reason to attack Mike Gillis.

Can't have it both ways.


Especially when in the same breath he waxes on about Doug Wilson's great drafting. Horvat if nothing else is a draft PICK by Mike Gillis.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:31 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
The Brown Knight wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:2013 - Shinkaruk ( don't count Horvat cause he came via Nonis 1st round pick - Schneider)


That's just dumb.

If Gillis had traded Schneider for a 7th round pick, you'd be talking about at great length.........and it would "count" in your eyes as another reason to attack Mike Gillis.

Can't have it both ways.


Especially when in the same breath he waxes on about Doug Wilson's great drafting. Horvat if nothing else is a draft PICK by Mike Gillis.


I can understand the guy's disdain towards Gillis.

For the life of me, I don't get why we traded Hodgson away for a complete 50/50 project in Kassian........given where the Canucks are (were?) with their window, but it's not like ALL of Gillis' decisions have been complete crap.

RoyalDude seems to think that Gillis is just some "Joe Schmoe" that has done nothing other than ride the coattails of the great Dave Nonis.........you know.........the guy that almost sold half our farm in 2008 for the services of Brad Richards.
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