Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:36 pm

Too many changes for a few players in. I'm not confident we are a contender this year. I'll be cheering, praying and supporting the team all the way but I don't have that feeling we are in with the big boys. I'd be hanging onto our D and waiting until next season to see if major changes are needed. I wanted to see bigger changes this year in the way of added youth but a few waiver pick ups ensured we wouldn't see that. I like Stanton so far but for the life of me I don't see what MG saw in Dalpne, so much he traded a 4th for him. Would rather have given Hunter his 10 games to be honest.

If the team sucks this year or has an eRly playoff exit then let's make some bold moves but for now let's ride it out and see where it goes.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby SKYO » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:48 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:Given how the Canucks have performed in their last 3 playoff series', I think it's safe to say that this team needs scoring.....and more specifically, needs secondary scoring in order to take enormous pressure off of the twins.


This.

I'd much rather move Booth + a B prospect and a 2nd though, midway through season or at the deadline for Vanek/Heatley or some other skilled winger who will become a UFA next offseason.

Or even just Booth for Ray Whitney!
I'd bet he would play well with Kesler on the 2nd line, even though he's small he's much more creative with the puck, passer/playmaker/shooter type, proven he stand the rigors of the NHL with a high IQ.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:39 am

Rumours abound that the Flyers are looking for a top 4 d man and are willing to part with a top prospect and a top six. Rumours abound that Fransor Gardiner could be moved for a top six and a top prospect. Do Philly and Toronto make a deal or....

To be foolish how about Edler to Philly for a top six and a prospect and two of Gaunce, JS or Jensen for either Franson or Gardiner? We get a top 4 d'man back and clear out a couple of prospects that have not earned a spot but would get top minuets in Toronto and hopefully get a top six from Philly and a blue chip prospect. Maybe we can even shave some off the cap this year for who knows what down the road. If Toronto and Philly would do it would you?
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby dbr » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:17 am

The Brown Knight wrote:I think Henrik and Kesler are excellent for top 6 centers.......unless I'm missing your point?


My point is that we need a center. Not to displace Henrik and not necessarily to displace Kesler, although if we had another center of roughly his calibre then I would assume the team would attempt to find the best match with the wingers on the club and then determine which was the "second" line and which was the "third" after that. To me that distinction isn't particularly important.

If you're looking at where we are lacking a proven impact player, it is down the middle. Sure it would be nice to have another bona fide first liner like Vanek or whoever but a. they cost a fortune and our only liquid assets are the types we need to hang onto (picks and prospects) and b. it's a luxury item, pure and simple.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Knucklehead » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:46 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Rumours abound that the Flyers are looking for a top 4 d man and are willing to part with a top prospect and a top six. Rumours abound that Fransor Gardiner could be moved for a top six and a top prospect. Do Philly and Toronto make a deal or....

To be foolish how about Edler to Philly for a top six and a prospect and two of Gaunce, JS or Jensen for either Franson or Gardiner? We get a top 4 d'man back and clear out a couple of prospects that have not earned a spot but would get top minuets in Toronto and hopefully get a top six from Philly and a blue chip prospect. Maybe we can even shave some off the cap this year for who knows what down the road. If Toronto and Philly would do it would you?


No god damn way do we trade Edler for a top 6 forward and a prospect unless that forward is an elite top 3 forward.

Would you trade Edler for Hanson? He scored the last two years at a top 6 rate while bringing speed, grit and excellent defensive play.

As for Franson and Gardiner either one would be playing in the bottom pairing in our defence, even without Edler, it just doesn't make sense.

This would mak the Ballard trade look good in retrospect.

Two of Gaunce, JS or Jensen is too high a price to pay for Franson or Gardiner, I wouldn't give Gaunce straight up for either of those players as we don't need either with our top 4 D.

Also our top 6 is fine as it is, lets wait until Burrows and Kasian are back before making hasty moves.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:19 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Too many changes for a few players in. I'm not confident we are a contender this year.


Ya think? We ain't getting past Chicago, San Jose, St. Louis this year. And I fully expect Quick in LA to be the most valuable player in the playoffs ad per usual. Scoring in the playoffs, will, like clockwork, be our nemesis. I expect the usual playoff disappearances from the likes of Higgins and Hansen will again be our best player in the one round we play in

Gillis will have no choice but to push the rebuild button as the Sedins will be 34 next season with Bieksa and Burrows not too far behind in the age bracket. It would be absolutely pointless to keep going with this same tired core group next season. We can't keep watching re-runs, seeing too many empty seats, the city is bored of the product
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:37 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Too many changes for a few players in. I'm not confident we are a contender this year.


Ya think? We ain't getting past Chicago, San Jose, St. Louis this year. And I fully expect Quick in LA to be the most valuable player in the playoffs ad per usual. Scoring in the playoffs, will, like clockwork, be our nemesis. I expect the usual playoff disappearances from the likes of Higgins and Hansen will again be our best player in the one round we play in

Gillis will have no choice but to push the rebuild button as the Sedins will be 34 next season with Bieksa and Burrows not too far behind in the age bracket. It would be absolutely pointless to keep going with this same tired core group next season. We can't keep watching re-runs, seeing too many empty seats, the city is bored of the product


For the most part, I agree with this line of thinking:

Having said that, I can't help but wonder as to how close this core would be IF we added 1 or 2 more key elements.

Hell - forget my "thinking out loud" idea of trading Edler, etc., for a Top 6 forward. You can keep Edler, and go in another direction (i.e. trade a draft pick + current roster player for a puck-moving defenseman of Christian Erhoff calibre). You do that, and all of a sudden, our goaltending and defensive core is at its 2011 peak.

Kassian is basically be our Raffi Torres right now, while Garrison is a Salo replacement. Booth, if healthy, should be as decent as Samuelson. All that's missing is a legit 3rd line center of Manny Malhottra calibre.

I guess the point I'm trying to drive at here, is that we might only be 1-2 pieces away from being where we were in 2011. In 2012, with the exception of Game 2 where the Kings spanked us, all of those games could have gone either way. Against San Jose this past May, that series could have just as easily been 2-2.

The Canucks most certainly aren't a contender as it stands right now...........but are we really that far off if you add a couple key pieces?
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Vader » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:41 am

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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:13 am

Knucklehead wrote:Also our top 6 is fine as it is,


Agreed, but our Top 6 has been "fine" for the past 2 or 3 regular seasons..........followed by very large power outages in the playoffs.

Maybe it's just the /'1-3-1 neutral zone / 3 forward forecheck' / collapse-box out defense/ style of play that we mightily struggle playing against (coincidentally enough, this is how Boston, LA, and San Jose played against us), and perhaps we'd match up better against other teams and styles.

No matter how you slice it however, the truth of the matter is that this is the style that both LA and San Jose use.....to perfection.......and if we make the playoffs this year, we'll most likely have to go through 1 or 2 of these teams.....and then St. Louis in the Conference finals if they happen to make it out of their divison.

Hopefully, Kassian takes a signifcant leap this year.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:23 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Rumours abound that the Flyers are looking for a top 4 d man and are willing to part with a top prospect and a top six. Rumours abound that Fransor Gardiner could be moved for a top six and a top prospect. Do Philly and Toronto make a deal or....

To be foolish how about Edler to Philly for a top six and a prospect and two of Gaunce, JS or Jensen for either Franson or Gardiner? We get a top 4 d'man back and clear out a couple of prospects that have not earned a spot but would get top minuets in Toronto and hopefully get a top six from Philly and a blue chip prospect. Maybe we can even shave some off the cap this year for who knows what down the road. If Toronto and Philly would do it would you?


Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with any of those players.


I know that you wouldn't be a fan of moving Edler, but if the Flyers really were willing to part with a top six player and a prospect, then why not inquire about Scott Hartnel? Isn't he a guy that would look good on our top 6 alongside Kesler? Isn't HE a guy that would give us some much needed scoring punch, and would help us have two legitimate scoring lines?
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:26 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Too many changes for a few players in. I'm not confident we are a contender this year.


Ya think? We ain't getting past Chicago, San Jose, St. Louis this year. And I fully expect Quick in LA to be the most valuable player in the playoffs ad per usual. Scoring in the playoffs, will, like clockwork, be our nemesis. I expect the usual playoff disappearances from the likes of Higgins and Hansen will again be our best player in the one round we play in

Gillis will have no choice but to push the rebuild button as the Sedins will be 34 next season with Bieksa and Burrows not too far behind in the age bracket. It would be absolutely pointless to keep going with this same tired core group next season. We can't keep watching re-runs, seeing too many empty seats, the city is bored of the product


Sorry Einstein but there is no magic rebuild button. Clowns like you probably think Edmonton is doing a good job. Successful teams add 2- 4 players each season and continually integrate good younger players instead blowing everything up. As for empty seats how many games do you go to ?
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:27 am

Come on Brown Feller, Hartnell is beat up and has six years left on his deal. No thank you.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby The Brown Knight » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:42 am

Art Vandelay wrote:Come on Brown Feller, Hartnell is beat up and has six years left on his deal. No thank you.


Buy low sell high.

Hartnell played injured last year and had sub-par output as a result. The Flyers as a whole last year was terrible.

He's 31 years old, and would be 36 when his contract expires.

36 isn't an ideal age, but it's not exactly the same as being 39-40 either.

Hartnell is a great character guy and gives us some muscle up front........along with some scoring touch when he's healthy.
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:03 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Too many changes for a few players in. I'm not confident we are a contender this year.


Ya think? We ain't getting past Chicago, San Jose, St. Louis this year. And I fully expect Quick in LA to be the most valuable player in the playoffs ad per usual. Scoring in the playoffs, will, like clockwork, be our nemesis. I expect the usual playoff disappearances from the likes of Higgins and Hansen will again be our best player in the one round we play in

Gillis will have no choice but to push the rebuild button as the Sedins will be 34 next season with Bieksa and Burrows not too far behind in the age bracket. It would be absolutely pointless to keep going with this same tired core group next season. We can't keep watching re-runs, seeing too many empty seats, the city is bored of the product


Sorry Einstein but there is no magic rebuild button. Clowns like you probably think Edmonton is doing a good job. Successful teams add 2- 4 players each season and continually integrate good younger players instead blowing everything up. As for empty seats how many games do you go to ?


Well hot damn! I gotta newbie gettin' in my grill! I just shit me pants

Well, this clown ain't so down with the tank it rebuild model that Kevin Lowe has been slaying in Oil Town. The 'add 2-4 good young players each season' you so eloquently described as a model of how to rebuild on the fly and still compete is exactly the model that my boi Dougy Wilson has been slaying in Jose, that kind of GM'ing is certainly not in the realm of what your boi Gillis is capable of. Proof is in pudding

But hey get in line with the rest if your cronies and wait for your boi Gillis to speed bag his potato sack balls off of your chins
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Re: Moving one of our Top 4 defenseman for a Top 6 Forward

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:23 am

Real classy RD. I carve you up and that is your response - some homo erotic fantasies about balls .
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