Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby Zedlee » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:29 am

Q to Torts:

WTF were you thinking putting the Sedins on the PK, with a minute left with the score 4-1? Are you really that stupid to risk an injury to one of your two top players to kill off a meaningless penalty? Schroeder got hurt blocking a shot...do you really want that to happen to Dank? Oh wait...Daniel did take one off the foot and hobble around.
Dumb move Torts.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:35 am

Zedlee wrote:Q to Torts:

WTF were you thinking putting the Sedins on the PK, with a minute left with the score 4-1? Are you really that stupid to risk an injury to one of your two top players to kill off a meaningless penalty? Schroeder got hurt blocking a shot...do you really want that to happen to Dank? Oh wait...Daniel did take one off the foot and hobble around.
Dumb move Torts.


He obviously figured their lightning speed would force a breakaway. Torts can deal with 4-2, but 4-1 really pisses him off.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:08 am

I really hope we're not one of the top shot-blocking teams statistically this year. It usually means you never have the puck.

Since we built this team on the Detroit model and the Wings have had the most successful system in the league for the last two decades, I'd be kind of curious to see what their blocked-shot stats have looked like over the last 10 years or so.

When you consider how many shots we blocked last night and then add the 35+ shots the Sharks had on net, it really shows how badly we got owned last night. The Sharks are just deadly at home.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby KeyserSoze » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:03 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:I really hope we're not one of the top shot-blocking teams statistically this year. It usually means you never have the puck.

Since we built this team on the Detroit model and the Wings have had the most successful system in the league for the last two decades, I'd be kind of curious to see what their blocked-shot stats have looked like over the last 10 years or so.

This post, along with all the talk about Torts and shot blocking since he was hired got me curious about which teams have owned this category, and where the Canucks and Wings (and Rangers) ranked.

12-13
(1)Leafs (2)Sharks (3)Flyers (6)Rangers (27)Canucks (28)Wings

11-12
(1)Islanders (2)Wild (3)Habs (4)Rangers (27)Canucks (28)Wings

10-11
(1)Islanders (2)Leafs (3)Flyers (4)Rangers (25)Canucks (29)Wings

09-10
(1)Panthers (2)Islanders (3)Habs (11)Rangers (24)Canucks (30)Wings

08-09
(1)Islanders (2)Avs (3)Habs (22)Canucks (26)Rangers (30)Wings


For what it's worth, last night the Canucks were credited with 22 blocked shots (they averaged less than 12 blocked shots / game last season)
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:11 pm

KeyserSoze wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:I really hope we're not one of the top shot-blocking teams statistically this year. It usually means you never have the puck.

Since we built this team on the Detroit model and the Wings have had the most successful system in the league for the last two decades, I'd be kind of curious to see what their blocked-shot stats have looked like over the last 10 years or so.

This post, along with all the talk about Torts and shot blocking since he was hired got me curious about which teams have owned this category, and where the Canucks and Wings (and Rangers) ranked.

12-13
(1)Leafs (2)Sharks (3)Flyers (6)Rangers (27)Canucks (28)Wings

11-12
(1)Islanders (2)Wild (3)Habs (4)Rangers (27)Canucks (28)Wings

10-11
(1)Islanders (2)Leafs (3)Flyers (4)Rangers (25)Canucks (29)Wings

09-10
(1)Panthers (2)Islanders (3)Habs (11)Rangers (24)Canucks (30)Wings

08-09
(1)Islanders (2)Avs (3)Habs (22)Canucks (26)Rangers (30)Wings


For what it's worth, last night the Canucks were credited with 22 blocked shots (they averaged less than 12 blocked shots / game last season)


Awesome work Keyzer.

The Wings were dead last in blocked shots both years they went to the Final and won a Cup. So yeah, the puck-possession mantra definitely holds true. LOL @ the Islanders.

Fucking Wings are gonna have 22 years straight making the playoffs this year. Pretty amazing.

What's the Canuck record, six years straight? And most of that streak occurred back when all you had to do to make the playoffs was not finish dead last in the division ('91-96). If we can make it this year then we tie that streak...
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby herb » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:28 pm

I know shot blocking is the latest lame Vancouver media attempt at creating a narrative, but the Sharks were credited with 18 blocked shots last night. You’re also going to block a hell of a lot of shots when you end up killing eight freaking penalties.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:30 pm

herb wrote:I know shot blocking is the latest lame Vancouver media attempt at creating a narrative, but the Sharks were credited with 18 blocked shots last night. You’re also going to block a hell of a lot of shots when you end up killing eight freaking penalties.


Watch us lead the league in penalties AND blocked shots while getting the fewest number of PPs.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby herb » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:36 pm

^ Haha that would not be a recipe for success!
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby Cookie La Rue » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm

Btw does shot blocking mean to block it from your own team mates? The thing Daniel hit was a try to get it out of the own zone...
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Oct 05, 2013 1:30 pm

It's obvious that mike gillis has carte Blanche around here with most of you, like if he was banging your old lady you'd be at bedside with your poms poms cheering him on "Miley you're the best" but did your buddy the players agent just hire John "Bill Laforge" Torterella?

It was funny hearing Doug MacLeans views on blocking shots and how much harder guys are shooting the pucks in todays game. In other words, it's fucking don cherry old school and guys will get hurt, as we are already seeing. Ain't worth it
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby ukcanuck » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:11 pm

RoyalDude wrote:It's obvious that mike gillis has carte Blanche around here with most of you, like if he was banging your old lady you'd be at bedside with your poms poms cheering him on "Miley you're the best" but did your buddy the players agent just hire John "Bill Laforge" Torterella?

It was funny hearing Doug MacLeans views on blocking shots and how much harder guys are shooting the pucks in todays game. In other words, it's fucking don cherry old school and guys will get hurt, as we are already seeing. Ain't worth it


Dude that droning sound above your head is the point in blocking shots going right over your head...

Its not the direct result of a blocked shot that counts, although that is desirable (a scoring chance eliminated.) Its the effort and dedication and willingness to sacrifice the body to win that is the POINT. This team has been powder puff soft since before Burke got canned, and its pretty obvious to everyone including you that this line up was cowed by the Bruins in 2011, and has been pretty much twinky filling since their "revenge" game in Boston in 2012...

It matter's fuck all if the entire line up goes down to broken legs blocking shots this season if they are just gonna play perimeter hockey and skate away from midget rats in the final..

Torts is just making the changes most of us on here have wanted since Sedin was speed bagged...
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby dbr » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:00 pm

Couple of thoughts on things that have been brought up.

The Sharks were credited with.... it's tough to take seriously what the Sharks were credited with in San Jose, their scorekeeper is pretty trigger happy and it's a major reason why when people try to make something meaningful out of more subjective stats (hits for example) they often try to correct for scorekeeper bias by using only road statistics.

As for shot blocking in general and comparing the Rangers and Canucks over the last few years, reasonably intelligent blogger Tyler Dellow took a look at this past season and found that the Rangers actually blocked fewer than average shots by defensemen and far far more than average shots by forwards (the Canucks blocked far fewer shots by forwards than average across the league), and also had their opponents forward attempt fewer shots as well.

So it would seem that Tortorella's club blocked more shots of the kind that we'd probably all agree are more dangerous (the ones taken by forwards) and that there is at the very least an indication that their style of defense also discouraged more dangerous shot attempts as well.

here is the post btw.

Anyway you'd probably have to look at these figures over several years but if the Canucks collapsing down in front of their own net means a higher percentage of shots are taken from less dangerous areas and that fewer of the more dangerous shots get through to the net, that is a good thing.

I do agree that piling up this particular statistic is not a good sign for a possession team (ie. the Ryan Johnson effect) but I don't think that being near the top is the worst thing in the world if there's reason to believe you're doing it right.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:32 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:It's obvious that mike gillis has carte Blanche around here with most of you, like if he was banging your old lady you'd be at bedside with your poms poms cheering him on "Miley you're the best" but did your buddy the players agent just hire John "Bill Laforge" Torterella?

It was funny hearing Doug MacLeans views on blocking shots and how much harder guys are shooting the pucks in todays game. In other words, it's fucking don cherry old school and guys will get hurt, as we are already seeing. Ain't worth it


Dude that droning sound above your head is the point in blocking shots going right over your head...

Its not the direct result of a blocked shot that counts, although that is desirable (a scoring chance eliminated.) Its the effort and dedication and willingness to sacrifice the body to win that is the POINT. This team has been powder puff soft since before Burke got canned, and its pretty obvious to everyone including you that this line up was cowed by the Bruins in 2011, and has been pretty much twinky filling since their "revenge" game in Boston in 2012...

It matter's fuck all if the entire line up goes down to broken legs blocking shots this season if they are just gonna play perimeter hockey and skate away from midget rats in the final..

Torts is just making the changes most of us on here have wanted since Sedin was speed bagged...


Oh yeah, shot blocking really sets teams apart in the toughness department. Really, really does.

Keep on entertaining me with your idiotness uk. I love it.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:45 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Oh yeah, shot blocking really sets teams apart in the toughness department. Really, really does.

Keep on entertaining me with your idiotness uk. I love it.


Well it does have some motivational aspects for sure. When a guy lays out and blocks a shot it does give a boost to the team. You might not think it's a big factor, but it is a factor.

I think the biggest reason Tortorella wants his guys to block shots is out of necessity. He likes to have his players play lower towards their own net, and that can leave the opposing D open and with more time. So to take some of that time away, the forwards need to get into the shooting lanes sooner. It would be nice if we didn't have to block so many shots, but allowing a shooting gallery from the point is a guaranteed way to lose games.
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Re: Vancouver Canucks hire coach John Tortorella

Postby dbr » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:24 pm

If 2013 is any indication, Tortorella does allow "a shooting gallery from the point"..

Image

..relative to most of the other teams in the league at any rate.
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