Re-sign the Sedins thread

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Re-sign the Sedins?

Yes
33
75%
No
5
11%
Maybe
4
9%
Who gives a shit
2
5%
 
Total votes : 44

Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby The_Pauser » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:30 pm

If the Canucks lock up the Sedins long-term for a total of $14M it will set the organization back a long, long time. Not only will we be saddled with those albatross contracts, but we won't be able to really begin improving until well after they've retired. I'd much rather let them walk and use that cap space to improve the organization as a whole. We may not be able to sign 2 impact players, but we should be able to sign 3 very good players.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:50 pm

The_Pauser wrote:If the Canucks lock up the Sedins long-term for a total of $14M it will set the organization back a long, long time. Not only will we be saddled with those albatross contracts, but we won't be able to really begin improving until well after they've retired. I'd much rather let them walk and use that cap space to improve the organization as a whole. We may not be able to sign 2 impact players, but we should be able to sign 3 very good players.


How do you figure?

Look at some of the recent contracts given out.

Horton signed for $5.3 and 7 years.
Clarkson signed for $5.25 and 7 years.
Wheeler resigned for $5.6M.
Pavelski resigned for $6M.
Kessel resigned for $8M.

Not only would the Canucks find it nearly impossible to replace the Sedins point production through Free Agency, but they'd have to overpay for any free agents they'd attract here, with no guarantee of any coming.

For $15.2 you could have Alfredsson ($5.5), Weiss ($4.9 & 5 years), and Clowe ($4.8 & 5 years) and their COMBINED 49 Points last year. Or have the Sedins and a combined 85 points. Kind of a no-brainer.

If the Sedins walk, we're rebuilding. I disagree that $7M per is too much for them. $7M per puts them in Spezza, Thornton, Semin, Vanek range. $7.5 puts them in Heatley, Gaborik, Nash territory. IMO the Sedins are comparable to all those players (and better than most).

Given their production, durability, consistency and importance to the franchise, I don't see that as an overpayment at all.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Topper » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:55 pm

The Sedins deserve to be and will be the highest paid players on the team.
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I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:57 pm

They are certainly worth more than Kessel and Clarkson. I would argue they are worth Geztlaf and Perry, just not the term.

I'm ok with 1-2 years at the 7-7.5 amount but I would be reluctant to go past two years at that cap. For a 3-4 year deal I would be fine with 6-6.6 per. They are certainly worth that.

If we let them walk then we are saying the window is closed on this core and more than tweaking is needed. If that's the case then I'd look to trade Luongo again this off season. He'll if we are starting over then let's do it right, no half measures.

I think if the twins only want 1-2 year deals from here on it they will get their 7-7.5, but if they want one last contract term there will be compromise. Of course MG has to decide if he wants to committ for4-5 years too. Perhaps he only wants a 2-3 year deal and let the re-tool go along slowly.


We will see I guess.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Meds » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:30 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:They are certainly worth more than Kessel and Clarkson. I would argue they are worth Geztlaf and Perry, just not the term.

I'm ok with 1-2 years at the 7-7.5 amount but I would be reluctant to go past two years at that cap. For a 3-4 year deal I would be fine with 6-6.6 per. They are certainly worth that.

If we let them walk then we are saying the window is closed on this core and more than tweaking is needed. If that's the case then I'd look to trade Luongo again this off season. He'll if we are starting over then let's do it right, no half measures.

I think if the twins only want 1-2 year deals from here on it they will get their 7-7.5, but if they want one last contract term there will be compromise. Of course MG has to decide if he wants to committ for4-5 years too. Perhaps he only wants a 2-3 year deal and let the re-tool go along slowly.


We will see I guess.


I'm betting we see 3 years, $21M. Takes them to 37 years old, leaves them a couple years to go home and play in Sweden again, or sign another 2-3 year deal and retire.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Meds » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:35 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:If the Canucks lock up the Sedins long-term for a total of $14M it will set the organization back a long, long time. Not only will we be saddled with those albatross contracts, but we won't be able to really begin improving until well after they've retired. I'd much rather let them walk and use that cap space to improve the organization as a whole. We may not be able to sign 2 impact players, but we should be able to sign 3 very good players.


How do you figure?

Look at some of the recent contracts given out.


Ignore him Island. Pauser is like the love child between RD and himself.

Island Nucklehead wrote: $7.5 puts them in Heatley, Gaborik, Nash territory. IMO the Sedins are comparable to all those players (and better than most).


All 3 of those guys are overpaid. Guaranteed that Heatley takes a $2M haircut next season.
Last edited by Meds on Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:52 pm

Meds wrote:Ignore him Island. Pauser is like the love child between RD and himself.

Island Nucklehead wrote: $7.5 puts them in Heatley, Gaborik, Nash territory. IMO the Sedins are comparable to all those players (and better than most).


All 3 of those guys are overpaid. Guaranteed that Heatley takes a $2M haircut next season.


I agree that they are overpaid, but that also means the Sedins are better than them and their agent could use such contracts as comparable.

Either way, it doesn't look like the Sedins want to play hardball with the Canucks, and the Canucks don't want to low-ball the Sedins. I would guess a "fair" deal gets done. Regardless, can't please everyone. Haters gonna hate and all that...
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Strangelove » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:00 pm

Meds wrote:Guaranteed that Heatley takes a $2M haircut next season.


Great, if the Twins take another haircut as well maybe the 3 of them could play on the same line next year. :wink:
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Strangelove » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:03 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:I would guess a "fair" deal gets done.


Can't argue with THAT one. :wink:

I'm just glad MY Vancouver Canucks have first dibs on the Wondertwins...
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Arachnid » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:35 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:I would guess a "fair" deal gets done.


Can't argue with THAT one. :wink:

I'm just glad MY Vancouver Canucks have first dibs on the Wondertwins...


*Look*

It's that damn monkey Zack!

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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby dbr » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:45 am

The_Pauser wrote:If the Canucks lock up the Sedins long-term for a total of $14M it will set the organization back a long, long time. Not only will we be saddled with those albatross contracts, but we won't be able to really begin improving until well after they've retired. I'd much rather let them walk and use that cap space to improve the organization as a whole. We may not be able to sign 2 impact players, but we should be able to sign 3 very good players.


:lol:

I'd say that Czech roofie did a number on your reading comprehension but unfortunately this type of disregard for other posters actual posts, the English language, basic reasoning and the facts is long established pattern..

Island Nuck posts about "$7M per on a medium term deal" and Pauser responds in hysterics about that figure on a long term deal. :crazy:

Even Pauser knows we can''t replace the Sedins in free agency for $14m but apparently we can sign three "very good" players at $4.6m.. that's the kind of cap hit that won't get you three of Steven Weiss or Ryane Clowe or Valtteri Filppula (let alone guys like Clarkson, Horton or Ribeiro) but will get you Jiri Hudler or PA Parenteau or Tyler Bozak on an actual long term contract. Very good players, indeed..

I'd poke some more holes in your awful, awful post but what's the point. Once again you are here, arguing against something nobody said they want.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:12 am

dbr wrote:Island Nuck posts about "$7M per on a medium term deal" and Pauser responds in hysterics about that figure on a long term deal. :crazy:

Even Pauser knows we can''t replace the Sedins in free agency for $14m but apparently we can sign three "very good" players at $4.6m.. that's the kind of cap hit that won't get you three of Steven Weiss or Ryane Clowe or Valtteri Filppula (let alone guys like Clarkson, Horton or Ribeiro) but will get you Jiri Hudler or PA Parenteau or Tyler Bozak on an actual long term contract. Very good players, indeed..


I am one that wouldn't mind the Sedins on a longer-term/retirement deal. Not at $7M across the board, but something that makes sense to both sides and takes advantage of the cap loopholes that still exist.

Loophole 1: The Sedins won't be 35 when the deal takes effect. So when the retire, the cap hit comes off our books entirely.

Loophole 2: If we sign them for less than 7 years, there is no cap recapture penalty.

So Hypothetically:

Now we can't tack on a couple $1M/year seasons to lower the hit, but IIRC year-to-year variation may be no more than 35%,and the maximum salary differential in any year cannot be lower than 50%. What this means is we can pay the Sedins $8M in year 1, and $4M by the end of a 6 year deal.

8, 7.5, 7.5, 5, 4.5, 4. Total of $36.5M. Cap hit of $6.08M. So the Sedins can average $7.6M over the first three years, decide if they want to retire, and if not continue to play for a salary more in-line with their age. The Canucks won't be cap-crippled, as long as the salary cap continues to rise throughout the deal. Even then, it's Luongo-esque, as the cap hit actually DROPS from its current level.

Another thing to keep in mind, we returned Horvat, Shinkaruk and Gaunce to their Jr teams, so we have them on ELC deals worth a combined $3.9M until 2015-16. That could provide some cheap talent in the early years of the Sedin extension, when the cap might not be as high.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby dbr » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:36 am

Well this is just the thing, some of us think a long term deal at a lower cap hit could work out well, some of us think that a medium term deal at a modest discount makes sense and most of us agree that if it's going to be the market rate or close to it the term needs to be short, 1-2 years.

What people like Pauser and Tiger want to think - because it is the only thing they can argue effectively against, and within those arguments they delude themselves into thinking they can justifiably trot out their hobby horse BS about how the Sedins are just not good players and nobody could ever win with them etc - is that someone out there is clamoring to give these guys $7.5m a year until they are 40 or something like that.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby The_Pauser » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:13 am

If we sign these guys to large cap hits, long-term, medium term, or short term even, we are saying that these are our guys who we are built around. I don't know about you people but I prefer a Stanley Cup above any loyalty to one or two particular players. This team will never win a Stanley Cup, or even come close again while these two playoff flakes are our go-to guys. They just aren't good enough in the playoffs and their game is now declining. At some point the GM has to recognize when a player is past his prime and simply not worth the investment.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby herb » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:00 am

I actually quite like what Gillis is attempting to do by acquiring higher end forward prospect depth that all have a reasonably good chance of being impact players in this team’s top six within the next two to four years. I don’t think he should consider himself done by any stretch of the imagination, and he still needs to try to stockpile as many of these young players as possible to increase his odds, but I can see what his strategy may be.

I think signing the Sedins to three or four extensions is the backbone of that strategy. The Sedins will continue to carry the load over the next two to three years, while Horvat, Shinkaruk and the rest develop into good pros.

Personally, I hate the idea of following the Alberta “tank it” model where there is absolutely no guarantee of a Taylor Hall or a Ryan Nugent-Hopkins in any given draft, and even then we don’t know how these players are going to work out. Being shitty for the better part of a decade when there is no guarantee of it working out makes my stomach churn, as I am sure it does to those at Canucks Sports and Entertainment.

It’s easy to say we’ll never win the Stanley Cup with the Sedins. I mean, that’s just playing the odds at this point, but I like our odds of winning the Cup with the Sedins leading the team in the short to medium term over tanking and not making the playoffs for many years.
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