Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Uncle dans leg » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:18 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: I wouldn't complain about paying him the rest of his contract.

Of course this is made decidedly easier due to the fact that you don't actually sign the cheques ;)
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:05 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Put it this way, if Lou could win us one stinking cup, I'd easily consider him the best goalie ever for our franchise. He could suck for the remainder of his contract by being a backup or minor leaguer and I'd still say he's awesome and I wouldn't complain about paying him the rest of his contract. :lol:

Seriously? You don't already consider him easily the best goalie the Canucks have ever had???
...wtf have you been sleeping the past five years?
No goalie has backdropped the Canucks to a better record and check it out only Maclean ever came as close in the playoffs and he only did it once.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Meds » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:05 pm

ESQ wrote:
dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:No, I think the point is that a guy like Giguere has stepped his game up in the playoffs, whereas Luongo has stepped his game down.The idea that Giguere only played in the playoffs at his absolute peak and therefore his stats aren't representative is silly. Look at the teams he has been on for the past four seasons. Conversely, Luongo has only played in the playoffs during his prime 27-33. And he's only had stacked or relatively stacked Vancouver teams in front of him.


JS Giguere picked up 39 of his 52 career playoff games in two playoff years: the first at age 25 in which he turned in a HOF-calibre performance and the second at age 29 when he wasn't as good but had two of the league's most effective defensemen in front of him.

Since then he has seven playoff games in six years (and zero in five) has his stats have gone into the toilet.

This is what people don't recognize about Luongo's greatness - he has been an elite goalie for so long. Giguere would be elite - if you only looked at the 2003-2008 stretch. Since then he's a .500 backup goalie.

Luongo had 7 consecutive 30+win seasons. That puts him in a tie for second all time with Patrick Roy, Henrik Lundqvist, and Ryan Miller, and behind only Patrick Roy. And that is in spite of Luongo starting his career with the shittiest franchise in the League.


Wait a second.

How is he tied for second WITH Patrick Roy (an others), but also behind Patrick Roy.....
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby CrzyCanuck » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:24 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Put it this way, if Lou could win us one stinking cup, I'd easily consider him the best goalie ever for our franchise. He could suck for the remainder of his contract by being a backup or minor leaguer and I'd still say he's awesome and I wouldn't complain about paying him the rest of his contract. :lol:

Seriously? You don't already consider him easily the best goalie the Canucks have ever had???
...wtf have you been sleeping the past five years?
No goalie has backdropped the Canucks to a better record and check it out only Maclean ever came as close in the playoffs and he only did it once.



I guess he still completely erased the memory of the Snow/Hirsch tandem, or Weekes/Burke/Potvin/[insert any name] goalie coalition
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:16 am

ukcanuck wrote:Seriously? You don't already consider him easily the best goalie the Canucks have ever had???
...wtf have you been sleeping the past five years?
No goalie has backdropped the Canucks to a better record and check it out only Maclean ever came as close in the playoffs and he only did it once.


Don't get me wrong, I like Lou and all. He's a great regular season goalie and he has done a really good job for us over the years, but I think if I'm going into the playoffs, I'd take a Captain Kirk in his prime over him. Kirk had some good years, but not the same longevity of success like Lou; however, I dunno. I think Lou's meltdowns leaves a big question mark for me. When we needed Lou to step up the most, he played like a panzy being kicked around like a rag doll, which just totally deflated the team. On the other hand, Kirk's calm and cool demeanor inspired confidence to his team. He was able to hold the fort and give his team a chance to win when it mattered most. All the regular season stuff doesn't matter much to me, it's all about what a guy/team does in the playoffs.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby vic » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:04 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: On the other hand, Kirk's calm and cool demeanor inspired confidence to his team. He was able to hold the fort and give his team a chance to win when it mattered most. All the regular season stuff doesn't matter much to me, it's all about what a guy/team does in the playoffs.


What are you smoking?

Career Playoff Stats (Both goalies have/had played 100% of their playoff games as a Canuck):

KM:
7 Playoffs - 68GP - 34W - 34L - 2.84GAA - .907SV%

RL:
6 Playoffs - 64GP - 32W - 31L - 2.54GAA - .915SV%

When you talk about holding the fort, the above stats show that RL has held the fort better than KM.

McLean had the privilege of playing behind a sqad that scored 19 times in the 94 SCF. Had the team only managed 8 goals like the 2011 squad, that series would have been over in 4 or 5.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:10 pm

Yes Mclean is a way better goalie. Career save pctg in both playoffs and league play is substantially worse but he's better. Unfuckingbelievable. Then again is it though ?

I guess Tony Tanti was a way better player than Joe Sakic as well.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Meds » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:41 pm

vic wrote:
Todd Bersnoozi wrote: On the other hand, Kirk's calm and cool demeanor inspired confidence to his team. He was able to hold the fort and give his team a chance to win when it mattered most. All the regular season stuff doesn't matter much to me, it's all about what a guy/team does in the playoffs.


What are you smoking?

Career Playoff Stats (Both goalies have/had played 100% of their playoff games as a Canuck):

KM:
7 Playoffs - 68GP - 34W - 34L - 2.84GAA - .907SV%

RL:
6 Playoffs - 64GP - 32W - 31L - 2.54GAA - .915SV%

When you talk about holding the fort, the above stats show that RL has held the fort better than KM.

McLean had the privilege of playing behind a sqad that scored 19 times in the 94 SCF. Had the team only managed 8 goals like the 2011 squad, that series would have been over in 4 or 5.


Are you really comparing the GAA and SV% from a goaltender in 1994 to one in 2012?

18 years ago every goaltender posted numbers that didn't look as good as now. Butterfly style, focused positional training was nothing like it is now. Defense was nowhere near the same style as now. Shot blocking and defensive positioning is much tougher.

I'm not arguing one way or the other about which goaltender is better. Both of them are Vezina finalists. Both of them got to the finals and came up a game short. Luongo has just had more regular season success.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:43 pm

Maybe we should revise the title of this thread?
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby ESQ » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:24 am

Meds wrote:
Wait a second.

How is he tied for second WITH Patrick Roy (an others), but also behind Patrick Roy.....

Thank you for pointing that out! He's behind Brodeur, not Roy.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Strangelove » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:15 pm

Funny thing is, if Lou has just one more great season, and Canucks win the Cup, he's a shoe-in for the the HOF.

Look at his numbers and accomplishments over his entire career.

Now add one more great season plus the Cup. :mex:

You know it's true.

If this comes to pass this season yours truly will be feeding crow to certain posters for years to come. :thumbs:
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:28 pm

vic wrote:What are you smoking?

Career Playoff Stats (Both goalies have/had played 100% of their playoff games as a Canuck):

KM:
7 Playoffs - 68GP - 34W - 34L - 2.84GAA - .907SV%

RL:
6 Playoffs - 64GP - 32W - 31L - 2.54GAA - .915SV%

When you talk about holding the fort, the above stats show that RL has held the fort better than KM.

McLean had the privilege of playing behind a sqad that scored 19 times in the 94 SCF. Had the team only managed 8 goals like the 2011 squad, that series would have been over in 4 or 5.



When I look at your stats, I would say the numbers between the 2 goalies are pretty close, Lou wins by a slight margin; however, as Meds pointed out, hockey in the early 90s was much more high scoring than it is today (more run and gun and less defensive/trapping).

Let me clarify on what I mean by "holding the fort". In the big games, all you can ask is for your goalie to keep u in the game. In the Stanley Cup deciding game of the 1994 series vs the Rangers (game 7), Kirk does that by keeping the game close and giving his team a chance to comeback, even though we lost 3-2. He was great all playoffs and was considered a conn smythe candidate depite losing to the Rangers.

Louongo on the other hand had 2 chances to bring the cup to Vancouver. In his first attempt (game 6 vs boston), he plays like shit and boston scores 3 goals on him in 8 shots and by the 8:35 mark of the first period he is pulled. In his 2nd attempt (game 7), he was a little better, but he was by no means stellar. He lets in a goal in the first period, 2 goals in the second period and the game was over. I know it was not all his fault, but Lou was NOT able to shut the door to keep his team in the game. He was NOT able to hold the fort and come up with the mometum turning save when it mattered most. We needed him to step up his game and be a rock for us, but he turned into the reincarnation of felix potvin. The 2011 canucks pretty much had no chance to win games 6 and 7 with that kind of shaky goaltending. Lou had strong consideration for the conn smythe up till the final round, but he lost all votes when the dust settled. Just look at the guy at the opposite end of the nets, now that was a guy who held the fort and played like a true conn smythe trophy winner. It was totally much deserved for the much despised Tim Thomas.

So yeah, that is why I'd take Captain Kirk over Lou. :P
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Jovocop » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:46 am

Just doesn't look right to me... :(

http://instagram.com/p/eIIwvFS8NL/embed/#
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Arachnid » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:50 am

Jovocop wrote:Just doesn't look right to me... :(

http://instagram.com/p/eIIwvFS8NL/embed/#


Look on the bright side....he can't be on the cover of EA NHL 15 :oops:

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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Rumsfeld » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:40 pm

OK, so Luongo is a top 3 goaltender in the league RIGHT NOW... who couldn't be traded for a second round pick or two. :lol:

Holy shit, every GM in the league must be retarded.
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