Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:52 pm

givemeda411 wrote:Now back to Luongo...


Oh yeah...
Image

no hard feelings eh buddy? :look:
nobody forks with...the jesus
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Topper » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:28 am

Wow.

Media complains that he isn't speaking. Media complains he's speaking to much (to other media houses but not their media house).

How much over analysis do you folks need? What happens if he gives his stick to a ginger kid after be selected first star?
Is he saying so long to Cory?
Is he paying tribute to his captain?
Is he a Willie Nelson fan?
Is he paying tribute to the downtrodden?

Strombone1 will be the starter, he will be fantastic on many nights and not get any credit, he will be great most nights and not get any credit, he will lay an occasional egg and be crucified.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Strangelove » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:40 pm

Topper wrote:Strombone1 will be the starter, he will be fantastic on many nights and not get any credit, he will be great most nights and not get any credit, he will lay an occasional egg and be crucified.


Which is probably why he wants the hell outta Crazytown. Image
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Tiger » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:06 am

Credit ?? The Doc wants to call him "Great" :?:
Mondi .. not quite that enthusiastic ...
Luo had 1 .. Great Playoff run.. 12 games in 2007 .. v % .941 :shock:
Hasn't come close to that sv% since
Compare :
Luongo 34
Regular season sv% .919 Playoffs ? .913 Lou's stats drop a little in the playoffs
Giguere * 2 years older
Regular season sv%.913 Playoffs ? .925 Yep.. stats go way up for the playoffs..
When Giguere hit 34 his salary went down to 1.25 mill..
So ? the Canucks made a very bad contract..
and Lou is still a very good .. NOT GREAT .. good .. goaltender

PS Gigi also has a Conn Smyth and a Stanley ring :) and he isn't GREAT !
" If you cant beat them in the alley - you can't beat them on the ice
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby dbr » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:15 am

So...

Giguere's been a backup goaltender for four years now and he's posted stats like a mediocre backup, with few exceptions, for five.

Of course his playoff stats are better because he was a playoff starter at his absolute peak, his game cratered and he may never see playoff action again at this rate.

Meanwhile Luongo is the worse player with an awful contract because of a decade of stellar play in the regular season, with stellar play + a large handful of brutal games in a much smaller playoff career.

OK. I mean I'm not going to say Luongo is an elite goaltender right now and is poised to take his play to new heights at age 34 but that's asinine.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Mondi » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:50 am

No, I think the point is that a guy like Giguere has stepped his game up in the playoffs, whereas Luongo has stepped his game down.The idea that Giguere only played in the playoffs at his absolute peak and therefore his stats aren't representative is silly. Look at the teams he has been on for the past four seasons. Conversely, Luongo has only played in the playoffs during his prime 27-33. And he's only had stacked or relatively stacked Vancouver teams in front of him.

I've contended all along that Luongo is a good player, and a terrific regular season performer. Only thing is that Cory Schneider is, in my opinion, the superior player.

Objectively: Younger, cheaper, better in shootout, less prone to weak goal and more athletic. Subjectively: less prone to melt downs, less prone to stupid media comments, less emotional, and less of an ego.

Now that Cory is gone, people are finding reasons not to like him. But, most reasonable observers agree Cory outplayed Luongo for 2 to 3 seasons and took his job.

We have Luongo for the time being (Eklund's little denizen seems to think Vancouver could get Lundqvist next year), so lets hope he can channel 2007 and OddLove can cook me up a batch of his finest crow.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby dbr » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:35 am

Mondi wrote:No, I think the point is that a guy like Giguere has stepped his game up in the playoffs, whereas Luongo has stepped his game down.The idea that Giguere only played in the playoffs at his absolute peak and therefore his stats aren't representative is silly. Look at the teams he has been on for the past four seasons. Conversely, Luongo has only played in the playoffs during his prime 27-33. And he's only had stacked or relatively stacked Vancouver teams in front of him.


JS Giguere picked up 39 of his 52 career playoff games in two playoff years: the first at age 25 in which he turned in a HOF-calibre performance and the second at age 29 when he wasn't as good but had two of the league's most effective defensemen in front of him.

Since then he has seven playoff games in six years (and zero in five) has his stats have gone into the toilet. He stepped up his game in a huge way in 2003 but in the latter run he was just .004 over his regular season save percentage (less than a goal every ten games).

Yeah he has been on crap teams the last few years and he has done okay under the circumstances but just okay - he also did just okay his last year in Anaheim let's not forget.

So basically we're saying "oooh look how much Giguere stepped up, look how clutch he is" when he has one monster playoff performance, one other good run behind one of the best teams of the salary cap era and just 13 other games all played before the age of 31 when his game fell off a cliff (and took his career regular season status with it.. ironically making him even more clutch by comparison :crazy: ).
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby vic » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:27 am

Tiger wrote:
PS Gigi also has a Conn Smyth and a Stanley ring :) and he isn't GREAT !


Giguere also had at least one guy named Chris Pronger or Scott Neidermayer if not both standing in front of him at all times.
Put Luongo in net behind those two and I bet he has at least one ring too.

Of course you (and the media) gives credit to the goalie. Just like Team Canada lost in Torino because the team wasn't good, it had nothing to do with the goaltending. They won in Vancouver because the team was that good - Lou gets no credit for that gold medal.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:41 am

vic wrote:Giguere also had at least one guy named Chris Pronger or Scott Neidermayer if not both standing in front of him at all times.
Put Luongo in net behind those two and I bet he has at least one ring too.



Don't forget, Giggy did it with a weak/underdog Ducks team too that had no Nieds and Prongs. Well, he backstopped them to the finals, but lost to the Devils I think. The year Kariya got knocked out by Scott Stevens.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=84 ... nhl-search
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Canuck-One » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:02 pm

Am I wrong in but didn't we trade Schneider? Isn't Luongo our starting goalie? I guess it's hard for some people to let go. Camp opens soon so it might be better to move forward.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby ESQ » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:12 pm

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:No, I think the point is that a guy like Giguere has stepped his game up in the playoffs, whereas Luongo has stepped his game down.The idea that Giguere only played in the playoffs at his absolute peak and therefore his stats aren't representative is silly. Look at the teams he has been on for the past four seasons. Conversely, Luongo has only played in the playoffs during his prime 27-33. And he's only had stacked or relatively stacked Vancouver teams in front of him.


JS Giguere picked up 39 of his 52 career playoff games in two playoff years: the first at age 25 in which he turned in a HOF-calibre performance and the second at age 29 when he wasn't as good but had two of the league's most effective defensemen in front of him.

Since then he has seven playoff games in six years (and zero in five) has his stats have gone into the toilet.

This is what people don't recognize about Luongo's greatness - he has been an elite goalie for so long. Giguere would be elite - if you only looked at the 2003-2008 stretch. Since then he's a .500 backup goalie.

Luongo had 7 consecutive 30+win seasons. That puts him in a tie for second all time with Patrick Roy, Henrik Lundqvist, and Ryan Miller, and behind only EDIT Martin Brodeur. And that is in spite of Luongo starting his career with the shittiest franchise in the League.
Last edited by ESQ on Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Meds » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:04 pm

Tiger wrote:Credit ?? The Doc wants to call him "Great" :?:
Mondi .. not quite that enthusiastic ...
Luo had 1 .. Great Playoff run.. 12 games in 2007 .. v % .941 :shock:
Hasn't come close to that sv% since
Compare :
Luongo 34
Regular season sv% .919 Playoffs ? .913 Lou's stats drop a little in the playoffs
Giguere * 2 years older
Regular season sv%.913 Playoffs ? .925 Yep.. stats go way up for the playoffs..
When Giguere hit 34 his salary went down to 1.25 mill..
So ? the Canucks made a very bad contract..
and Lou is still a very good .. NOT GREAT .. good .. goaltender

PS Gigi also has a Conn Smyth and a Stanley ring :) and he isn't GREAT !


Giguere is 2 years older and has played 172 fewer games.

His career numbers are similar to Luongo's, but his season to season performances have been up and down like a yo-yo by comparison.

He won a cup on a stacked Anaheim team, and he had an amazing run to the finals and a Conn Smythe trophy in 2002-03.

Other than those years, Giguere has been pretty average as starting goaltenders go.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Mondi » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:28 pm

I'm not on the Giggy > Luongo train. But, I will say this: What truly great players are known for performing worse in the playoffs than the regular season?

Any comparison of Luongo with Roy and Brodeur begins and ends with the numbers 4, 3, and 0.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Mondi wrote:I'm not on the Giggy > Luongo train. But, I will say this: What truly great players are known for performing worse in the playoffs than the regular season?

Any comparison of Luongo with Roy and Brodeur begins and ends with the numbers 4, 3, and 0.

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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:01 am

Put it this way, if Lou could win us one stinking cup, I'd easily consider him the best goalie ever for our franchise. He could suck for the remainder of his contract by being a backup or minor leaguer and I'd still say he's awesome and I wouldn't complain about paying him the rest of his contract. :lol:
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