HNIC may leave CBC :)

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BigTuna
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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by BigTuna » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:37 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
BigTuna wrote: Well, the media picks them to be terrible every year. I wouldn't say any of the media overrates them. Phil Kessel is the 4th leading scorer in the NHl the last two years playing with Bozak and he barely cracked The Hockey News top 50 players.
So the media is right 9 /10 times then. Seeing as it's a real 82 game season coming up the Leaves will likely fall apart around game 60 when the games get tougher. Kessel is a one dimensional player with yellow teeth and one ball. He is rated where he should be. Top 40 at best.
Top 10 scorers last season by THN Ranking:

1. St. Louis (12)
2. Stamkos (3)
3. Ovechkin (2)
4. Crosby (1)
5. Kane (8)
6. Staal (21)
7. Kunitz (N/A)
8. Kessel (41)
9. Hall (20)
10. Getzlaf (33)


There's a terrible anti-Leaf bias in the media. Including the Toronto media.

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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:39 pm

Kessel is a soft player who plays little to no defence. Did I mention he has yellow teeth and one ball ?

I don't agree with or follow the ranking from the mouth breathers. What I do know is that there are a minimum 40 players that i would want on my team if I was picking a team.
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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by BigTuna » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:47 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Kessel is a soft player who plays little to no defence. Did I mention he has yellow teeth and one ball ?

I don't agree with or follow the ranking from the mouth breathers. What I do know is that there are a minimum 40 players that i would want on my team if I was picking a team.
Who wants a PPG. in the regular season AND playoffs? (With Bozak Nonetheless).

The truth is, Kessel is the poster boy for bad defense because he plays in Toronto. That's the only reason. No one cared about that when he was in Boston. No one cares that a guy like Grabner is 1000 times worse defensively.

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by Island Nucklehead » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:23 pm

BigTuna wrote: Who wants a PPG. in the regular season AND playoffs? (With Bozak Nonetheless).

The truth is, Kessel is the poster boy for bad defense because he plays in Toronto. That's the only reason. No one cared about that when he was in Boston. No one cares that a guy like Grabner is 1000 times worse defensively.
He's a talented offensive star. I wouldn't pay him $8M/year, and he's going to be in that ballpark. Forwards that make that kind of money need to be 3-zone players, imo.

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by dbr » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:44 am

Kessel is a good player and I'd take him on my team any day.

No he doesn't play great defense and yes he looks like a complete fucking goon (in the awkward loser way, not in the he'll smash your face in way) but the guy is a goal scorer in a league where few players can produce offense singlehandedly.

I don't know that I'd want him to be the cornerstone of my team but it's hardly his fault Burkie blew his wad on that trade.

As for the $8m figure, within two or three years that's going to be the default high end first liner salary, sort of like we saw guys like Iginla, Thornton, Heatley, Staal, Nash, Brad Richards, Gaborik, Spezza, Mikko Koivu ( :lol: ) signing for under the last CBA. Like I said Kessel isn't your all situations guy but he belongs in that strata IMO.

I don't envy the teams that have to pay their best forwards in that range but comparing Kessel to the rest of the marketplace (and where it's likely to stand a few years down the line) it's hard to say he isn't as worthy as the other guys who will get that.

As for the Toronto media bias discussion, I think there is room to believe that much of it results in an overly negative view of the Leaves (same as what happens here in Vancouver with guys like Willes). That being said I don't give a flying fuck whether the bias in Leafland is positive or negative, I am no more interested in them than I am in the Coyotes or Hurricanes, their coverage doesn't appeal to me and I'd wager that the rest of hockey fandom's experience would be improved if there was less of it. That's the point.

(Yeah yeah, biggest hockey market blah blah blah. Don't care.)

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by ESQ » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:15 pm

dbr wrote: As for the $8m figure, within two or three years that's going to be the default high end first liner salary, sort of like we saw guys like Iginla, Thornton, Heatley, Staal, Nash, Brad Richards, Gaborik, Spezza, Mikko Koivu ( :lol: ) signing for under the last CBA. Like I said Kessel isn't your all situations guy but he belongs in that strata IMO.
You are right, and elite guys who re-signed after the last CBA (2005) were a bargain by the end of their contracts - prime example is Pronger, who went from $6.25 to $7.6 million at age 35 (talking salary, not avg cap hit). The best defenseman in the game at the time, signing in a shithole like Edmonton for $6.25 million, 6 years before Taylor Hall signs for $6 million in Edmonton as an injury-prone 22 year old.
I don't envy the teams that have to pay their best forwards in that range but comparing Kessel to the rest of the marketplace (and where it's likely to stand a few years down the line) it's hard to say he isn't as worthy as the other guys who will get that.
Yep, all those examples you named totally screwed their respective teams (except maybe Thornton) by hamstringing the salary structure.

That's what Burke missed - youth is great because its cheap and productive. He signed Kessel to a massive contract at a young age, tied up none of his UFA years, and the Leaves are screwed next year as a result.
That being said I don't give a flying fuck whether the bias in Leafland is positive or negative, I am no more interested in them than I am in the Coyotes or Hurricanes, their coverage doesn't appeal to me and I'd wager that the rest of hockey fandom's experience would be improved if there was less of it. That's the point.

(Yeah yeah, biggest hockey market blah blah blah. Don't care.)
Brilliantly said :lol:

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by dbr » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:55 pm

ESQ wrote:Yep, all those examples you named totally screwed their respective teams (except maybe Thornton) by hamstringing the salary structure.

That's what Burke missed - youth is great because its cheap and productive. He signed Kessel to a massive contract at a young age, tied up none of his UFA years, and the Leaves are screwed next year as a result.
Well, my point is that the $8m dollar figure isn't the end of the world. Almost all of those $7m+ guys remained desirable players - especially the ones that signed relatively young like Kessel will.. Nash, Gaborik, Heatley, Spezza, all guys who remained highly desirable assets (with completely acceptable contracts)..... as long as they played at close to the level they had when they signed, Dany Heatley I am looking in your direction...
Last edited by dbr on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by Island Nucklehead » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:53 pm

dbr wrote: Well, my point is that the $8m dollar figure isn't the end of the world. Almost all of those $7m+ guys remained desirable players - especially the ones that signed relatively young like Kessel will.. Nash, Gaborik, Heatley, Spezza, all guys who remained highly desirable assets (with completely acceptable contracts)..... as long as they played at close to the level they had when they signed, Dany Heatley I am looking in your direction...
What have these guys accomplished (for their teams) with their big salaries?

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:00 pm

I am not saying Kessel is a shitty player. I'm just saying I could name 40 - 50 players I would rather have on my team than him. I am also saying that in a cap world there is no way in hell I am paying Kessel 7.5 - 8 million per. he is a good player, but paying him that much could hamstring your salary cap in a bad way if you have a couple other anchors.
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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by BigTuna » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:08 pm

dbr wrote:
ESQ wrote:Yep, all those examples you named totally screwed their respective teams (except maybe Thornton) by hamstringing the salary structure.

That's what Burke missed - youth is great because its cheap and productive. He signed Kessel to a massive contract at a young age, tied up none of his UFA years, and the Leaves are screwed next year as a result.

Well, my point is that the $8m dollar figure isn't the end of the world. Almost all of those $7m+ guys remained desirable players - especially the ones that signed relatively young like Kessel will.. Nash, Gaborik, Heatley, Spezza, all guys who remained highly desirable assets (with completely acceptable contracts)..... as long as they played at close to the level they had when they signed, Dany Heatley I am looking in your direction...
5.4 million per is hardly "Massive". Kessel's been underpaid for awhile now.

Guys like Hall and Seguin were signed for more money at a younger age. than what Burke gave Kessel.

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by Jovocop » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:09 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
dbr wrote: Well, my point is that the $8m dollar figure isn't the end of the world. Almost all of those $7m+ guys remained desirable players - especially the ones that signed relatively young like Kessel will.. Nash, Gaborik, Heatley, Spezza, all guys who remained highly desirable assets (with completely acceptable contracts)..... as long as they played at close to the level they had when they signed, Dany Heatley I am looking in your direction...
What have these guys accomplished (for their teams) with their big salaries?
Nothing, they got their fat paychecks because they could put up points. When it comes to money, individuals come before teams... :mrgreen:

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by BigTuna » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:15 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I am not saying Kessel is a shitty player. I'm just saying I could name 40 - 50 players I would rather have on my team than him. I am also saying that in a cap world there is no way in hell I am paying Kessel 7.5 - 8 million per. he is a good player, but paying him that much could hamstring your salary cap in a bad way if you have a couple other anchors.
LOL @ 40-50. Good thing you aren't a GM.

How many guys can be PPG regular season and playoffs and be centered by Tyler Bozak? 4th in NHL scoring the last two years. 4th.

The funny thing is, when he was traded, everyone laughed (Mostly Toronto Media) and said he only scored because of Marc Savard and would do nothing without him.

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:52 pm

Easily 40 -50 guys I would want ahead of Yellow Teeth especially since he will be making 8 per coming up. He is a great deal at 5.4 but a poor deal at 8. You guys can keep him and if all goes well he may play a dozen playoff games over his next five seasons. :lol:
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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by dbr » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:27 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
dbr wrote: Well, my point is that the $8m dollar figure isn't the end of the world. Almost all of those $7m+ guys remained desirable players - especially the ones that signed relatively young like Kessel will.. Nash, Gaborik, Heatley, Spezza, all guys who remained highly desirable assets (with completely acceptable contracts)..... as long as they played at close to the level they had when they signed, Dany Heatley I am looking in your direction...
What have these guys accomplished (for their teams) with their big salaries?
Well Heatley and Spezza got to a Cup Final.. Nash and Gaborik, sweet fuck all obviously. But a good first liner doesn't put the team on his back and carry them to success on his own in this league, that's not even the pay grade we're talking about here.

These guys aren't Crosby or Malkin, they are the next tier down and even they are all going to be in the $8m's (give or take a few guys who give discounts) when they've all expired and re-signed under this CBA.

Like I said, I'd rather not be in the position of having to pay my top forward(s) in that range than be doing it, but I'd also rather be paying my top forward(s) in that range rather than stuck with a team with zero players of that calibre.

The Canucks have been extremely fortunate to have their first line built around two guys who are not particularly greedy, we could easily be looking at two players of a similar calibre making $7m each and looking for raises into that territory next year.

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Re: HNIC may leave CBC :)

Post by sagebrush » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:03 pm

Botchford
The ongoing feud between the Canucks and Hockey Night in Canada is alive and well.

Glenn Healy leapt at the chance to chastise John Tortorella in the first intermission for laying into Keith Acton verbally after Acton’s son fought Ryan Kesler. Tortorella would later explain he jumped down Acton’s throat because the Oilers assistant was jawing at one of his players.

That didn’t stop Healy from flogging Tortorella between periods, saying the coach needs to “suck it up and shut up.”
I couldn’t let that one go, and asked Torts about it in the presser after the game. He didn’t disappoint.
He volleyed back: “I don’t care what CBC says, or what anyone says quite honestly. They don’t know what happened. I don’t really give a shit what they say.

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