Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby tantalum » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:13 am

ESQ wrote:What kills me about the argument that Hodgson would have been no good in the playoffs is that there is no evidence to support it. Hodgson was the 3rd line center, he was deliberately given sheltered minutes, he played a lot on the PP and put up quite a lot of points. I would argue that the TEAM performance was better having Hodgson in that limited role than in having Kassian and Pahlsson, because scoring immediately became a problem and the powerplay suffered enormously since the trade.


I didn't say he wouldn't or even couldn't be good. I said that under the coaching staff the canucks had they clearly wanted someone other than Hodgson playing those minutes. They wanted Pahlsson or his ilk. They had Henrik. They had Kesler. The only spot remaining is the 4th line and on that line they had LaPierre. Down the stretch and in the playoffs with, count them, 4 centers the coaching staff was in all likelihood going to put above him in the depth chart that limited role was shaping up to be "popcorn eater". They didn't trust him and were actively deciding to find someone else for that third line role. They acquired Pahlsson on deadline day prior to agreeing to any trade with Hodgson. From everyone on that day, that deal came along at the last minute. Had it not come along both Pahlsson and Hodgson would have been on the team and AV would have given Pahlsson the spot in the lineup. I think he would also give LaPierre the spot over Hodgson. With AV, rightly or wrongly, he had to trust a player defensively to use them in the playoffs to any real degree and that goes double for his centers.

No evidence to support that...perhaps nothing definitive but there is an awful lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests that would be the case. And of course on the flip side, there is also no evidence that he would have made any sort of difference.


bah got dragged back into the off topic discussion..... I'm out now. no more dragging me in.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby SKYO » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:31 pm

"J.P. Barry confirms he and partner Pat Brisson of CAA Sports are now representing Luongo. Change made earlier this week."

So what in the hell is all this about? just for shits and giggles?
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Jovocop » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:06 pm

SKYO wrote:"J.P. Barry confirms he and partner Pat Brisson of CAA Sports are now representing Luongo. Change made earlier this week."

So what in the hell is all this about? just for shits and giggles?


Unless Luongo is trying to terminate his contract, I just don't understand why he needs new agents when his contract won't expire until 2022... :?:
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Groovypippin » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:29 pm

Jovocop wrote:
SKYO wrote:"J.P. Barry confirms he and partner Pat Brisson of CAA Sports are now representing Luongo. Change made earlier this week."

So what in the hell is all this about? just for shits and giggles?


Unless Luongo is trying to terminate his contract, I just don't understand why he needs new agents when his contract won't expire until 2022... :?:


We can all keep crapping our collective pants over minutia or we can come to the crushingly obvious realization that Luongo is not going to walk away from both millions of dollars and the chance to be the starting goaltender for team Canada at the Winter Olympics. He will beat training camp, he will be in net on opening night and he will be terrific as always (Well, maybe not for the first 10-15 games :oops: )
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Topper » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:47 pm

tantalum wrote:
ESQ wrote:What kills me about the argument that Hodgson would have been no good in the playoffs is that there is no evidence to support it. Hodgson was the 3rd line center, he was deliberately given sheltered minutes, he played a lot on the PP and put up quite a lot of points. I would argue that the TEAM performance was better having Hodgson in that limited role than in having Kassian and Pahlsson, because scoring immediately became a problem and the powerplay suffered enormously since the trade.


I didn't say he wouldn't or even couldn't be good. I said that under the coaching staff the canucks had they clearly wanted someone other than Hodgson playing those minutes. They wanted Pahlsson or his ilk. They had Henrik. They had Kesler. The only spot remaining is the 4th line and on that line they had LaPierre. Down the stretch and in the playoffs with, count them, 4 centers the coaching staff was in all likelihood going to put above him in the depth chart that limited role was shaping up to be "popcorn eater". They didn't trust him and were actively deciding to find someone else for that third line role. They acquired Pahlsson on deadline day prior to agreeing to any trade with Hodgson. From everyone on that day, that deal came along at the last minute. Had it not come along both Pahlsson and Hodgson would have been on the team and AV would have given Pahlsson the spot in the lineup. I think he would also give LaPierre the spot over Hodgson. With AV, rightly or wrongly, he had to trust a player defensively to use them in the playoffs to any real degree and that goes double for his centers.

No evidence to support that...perhaps nothing definitive but there is an awful lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests that would be the case. And of course on the flip side, there is also no evidence that he would have made any sort of difference.


bah got dragged back into the off topic discussion..... I'm out now. no more dragging me in.


With fewer centres, that very thing happened to Cody this season in Buffalo. he finished the season well down the lineup with coaching staff having little patience with his lack of defence.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Strangelove » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:59 pm

ESQ wrote:And by the way, this point-by-point dissection is so tedious, if you do it to my post again I will be forced to concede :drink:


:lol:

Well luckily I don't have any spare time today. :D

You did a decent job of burying the fact you said Cody was awesome on the PP and it struggled because he left

... after I pointed out he scored ZERO points on the PP in his last 17 games as a Canuck. :wink:

It's a huge reach to insist Hodgson would've helped the Canucks in the 2012 playoffs.

And it's ridiculous to insist any team would be better off with Hodgson over Roy in the 2013 playoffs.

Anyhoo, back on topic...

LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU :thumbs:
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:41 pm

Jovocop wrote:
SKYO wrote:"J.P. Barry confirms he and partner Pat Brisson of CAA Sports are now representing Luongo. Change made earlier this week."

So what in the hell is all this about? just for shits and giggles?

Unless Luongo is trying to terminate his contract, I just don't understand why he needs new agents when his contract won't expire until 2022... :?:

Maybe he's unhappy about communications that occurred between Lupien and Gillis regarding trade options, willingness to waive NTC, etc. Maybe he feels Lupien didn't accurately portray Luongo's expectations regarding the situation. I'm straight up speculating here, given present events, don't "Aaronp18" me.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Jovocop » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:17 pm

Agree or not, Dan got a few good points about the Luongo's situation.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/murp ... vancouver/

Dan Murphy

July 24, 2013, 6:59 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roberto Luongo changed agents and this has to be seen as a shot across the bow of the Vancouver Canucks.

Why else would a guy with nine years left on a contract fire his agent?

Luongo will not be coming to camp quietly. His former agent, Gilles Lupien, told Luongo that he couldn’t help find him a trade out of Vancouver so the Canucks goaltender told him he was fired.

So Luongo has now entrusted CAA Sports (JP Barry and Pat Brisson) to find him the trade that Lupien couldn’t.

As long as Luongo’s contract was a standard players deal (no reason why it wouldn’t have been) then Lupien will continue to receive a cheque thanks to the 12-year “sucky” contract he helped negotiate with GM Mike Gillis.

So what’s in it for CAA?

Certainly they aren’t taking on Luongo for nothing.

Perhaps their fee is contingent on facilitating a trade for Luongo. And I ‘m guessing having Luongo in their stable is a good thing too, especially when it comes to trying to attract other potential clients.

There is no question that Barry and Brisson are well respected agents with a ton of superstar clients — something that clearly factored into Luongo’s decision to change representation.

Now we have yet to hear from Luongo on any of this.

He hasn’t spoke publicly since the day he found out Cory Schneider would be the goalie exiting Vancouver.

In this case I don’t believe that silence is golden. I don’t think you have to be a Rhodes scholar to come to the conclusion he isn’t happy right now.

If he still hasn’t “wrapped his head around” what happened on draft day then we can probably assume he doesn’t want to wrap his head around it.

Gillis tried to downplay the whole Luongo situation Tuesday night at the Canucks annual Summer Summit.

Gillis was asked questions about his visit to see Luongo in Florida last week and Vancouver’s GM described it as a normal conversation.

He said it “wasn’t stressful”, adding the two spent much of the meeting sharing laughs over various topics.

I wasn’t there, of course, but I can guarantee you the meeting wasn’t all rainbows, puppy dogs and unicorns.

The fact that Luongo hasn’t spoken likely means he’s not looking forward to playing for Vancouver this season.

Now this is all speculation on my part.

I may be way off base and I guess I could be reading too much into Luongo’s silence and his decision to change representation.

But I wouldn’t bet on it.

The one thing I would bet on however is that Luongo will not hold out. If CAA Sports can’t find him a new home then I fully expect Luongo to play for the Canucks and play hard.

He loves his teammates, he’s a fierce competitor and he wants to win. And oh yeah, he wants to be Team Canada’s No. 1 goalie at the Olympics.

No way he throws that opportunity out the window to try and force the Canucks’ hand.

This is the story that never ends, yes it just goes on and on my friends.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Meds » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:50 pm

What exactly does a new agent have to do with getting this trade?

Contract is in place. Agents can be a squeaky wheel until the cows come home, but if that wheel doesn't get greased you can bet it gets tuned out. It's not like CAA Sports can renegotiate this contract. If no team is willing to take the contract, or the player whatever the case may be, then The only option for Luongo is to hold out and refuse to report to the team. At this point the Canucks can trade him or suspend him. He can't play for another team, he can't retire, go overseas, and then return next year without the Canucks having some say in regards to his return. These new agents can't negotiate a trade, that's the job of the GMs.

I don't see this as a shot across the bow of the Canucks. This is a shot straight at the agent who negotiated the deal. He's unhappy with it now and has decided to shit can the guy who helped make it happen. But even that is a stretch IMHO. Roberto doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that throws his agent totally under the bus for something that Lou was very happy about at the time. Firing his agent doesn't do anything to Gillis or Vigneault, and while I don't think it was GMMG who made the call, they are the only two guys who could have made the decision to go with Schneider in LA, and the again in SJ. Maybe he feels his agent didn't do enough to bring his concerns to Gillis during the last 14 months. But again, Lou is a big boy and could easily have had a heart to heart with MG himself. I'd be willing to bet that Lou gave him the axe because the guy negotiated a whopper deal, gets his commission, and has tuned Lou out for a while because of this whole situation.....I don't think this has anything to do with the Canucks.

Where is HW with a scoop when we need one? :P
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Diehard1 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:19 pm

This means absolutely nothing. Lu has no choice but to come to camp and play and that's what he'll do. The paranoia of the media in Vancouver is hilarious.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby SKYO » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:47 pm

Groovypippin wrote:
Jovocop wrote:Unless Luongo is trying to terminate his contract, I just don't understand why he needs new agents when his contract won't expire until 2022... :?:


We can all keep crapping our collective pants over minutia or we can come to the crushingly obvious realization that Luongo is not going to walk away from both millions of dollars and the chance to be the starting goaltender for team Canada at the Winter Olympics. He will beat training camp, he will be in net on opening night and he will be terrific as always (Well, maybe not for the first 10-15 games :oops: )


Sounds about right, Lu will "rough it" next season with the team while he and JP Barry conspire a way to escape from the Canucks in a year or two.
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A perfect, bittersweet ending for this goalie saga would be if Lu were to win a cup here first, then bolt right after.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Rumsfeld » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:50 pm

SKYO wrote:A perfect, bittersweet ending for this goalie saga would be if Lu were to win a cup here first, then bolt right after.


You want to win a cup with Luongo.

I want a pony.

Too bad for both of us.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby SKYO » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:01 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:
SKYO wrote:A perfect, bittersweet ending for this goalie saga would be if Lu were to win a cup here first, then bolt right after.


You want to win a cup with Luongo.

I want a pony.

Too bad for both of us.


haha yeah I believe in fairy tale endings too much. :mrgreen:
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby tantalum » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:12 pm

It may of course be true but is likely half truths or complete conjecture. I also can't help but wonder/ask if Dan Murphy reads this much into every time a player changes agents early into a new contract. 'Cause it happens a lot.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby ODB » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:23 pm

Love the Rummy, Strangelove bet. I think it could go either way...

But, As of today, I read Hodgson is looking for 5 million a season long term and he and Buffalo are far apart. I believe this is the real reason GMMG dealt Hodgson. He saw the righting on the wall and it said problem. Anyway, who cares what I believe? I betcha Hodgson doesn't start the season and the odds of him putting up 65 are slim. Advantage, Strangelove. :thumbs:

Imagine how fucked we'd be cap wise if Hodgson was still a Canuck and he was demanding 5 million from our team.

Fact is it's just as likely Gillis, Henning and Gilman anticipated WWII when the CBA was set to expire, anticipated the likely-hood of a cap reduction and anticipated Cody's dad expecting a huge payday and cut him lose for size, strength, potential and AN ADDITIONAL season of ELC rather than they simply got fleeced... just sayin?!?! They do get paid million to manage a professional hockey team while we post on a messageboard. Messageboards... they're so 2001!
BTW, NOT A FLAME ... JUST AN OBSERVATION ... :P
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