Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby ODB » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:39 pm

Ya'll can argue till your blue in the face. The FACT is Schneider could be a top 3 elite goaltender or he could be the next Jaroslav Halak. (Speaking of Halak, he was a playoff God and all he fetched was Lars Eller and Ian Schultz, and before you ramble on over how much better Schneider is you need to remember at the time fans wanted Price traded)

CANADIENS DEAL PLAYOFF HERO HALAK TO THE BLUES
This past season, Halak's incredible play between the pipes led the Canadiens on a deep run into the playoffs before they were eliminated by the Flyers in the Eastern Conference final.

"Jaroslav's play in this year's regular season and Stanley Cup playoffs was remarkable," Blues president John Davidson said in a statement. "He has had very impressive numbers in the NHL and we are thrilled that he will be wearing the Bluenote for us."

Halak, the backup that looked very good for flashes but will never be a top 3 elite goalie. We don't know what Schneider will do and saying we do, either way, is silly. Time will tell...

Remember I said to Trade Schneider all along so I'm not losing any sleep over Schneider moving on.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Rumsfeld » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:45 pm

Good point OD, but Price was always considered the better technical and athletic goaltender.

Much like Schneider and Quick, goaltending experts and scouts drooled all over his skill and potential for years before he became the man.

Maybe Schneider won't live up to his potential but if he does he'll be one of the best... which is why he won the starter's job over an established top goaltender in Luongo -- who had a lifetime albatross of a contract to boot.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby dbr » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:44 am

Yeah I think Schneider is a pretty safe bet to be a better goaltender than Jaro Halak. His size and athleticism are pretty clearly superior.

Schneider's obviously only ever played behind one team and coach so you could level a similar accusation, but most of Halak's biggest achievements were behind incredibly suffocating defenses..
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby BurningBeard » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:40 am

Strangelove wrote:Just sayin Marty is still the #1 in Jersey.

Just sayin. :drink:

Yeah, it's too bad Luongo wasn't traded to Jersey, we know he has no problem taking the #1 role away from Marty. :D
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Tciso » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:Good point OD, but Price was always considered the better technical and athletic goaltender.

Much like Schneider and Quick, goaltending experts and scouts drooled all over his skill and potential for years before he became the man.

Maybe Schneider won't live up to his potential but if he does he'll be one of the best... which is why he won the starter's job over an established top goaltender in Luongo -- who had a lifetime albatross of a contract to boot.


Lou's contract will continue to look better every year for the next 5 or 6 years, and the cap hit will be easily tradeable in the last 3 years. Hell, his cap hit this year is already #12 on the list, and in a few years, his cap hit will be in the bottom half of #1 goalies. If Schneids does live up to his potential, he will be in the $7-9mil range when his contract expires in 2 years. Lou
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Rumsfeld » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:13 pm

Tciso wrote:Lou's contract will continue to look better every year for the next 5 or 6 years,


No it won't. If that was the case he would have been tradeable. You do realize Luongo is 34, right? Athletes don't get better in their mid-30s, they get significantly worse. Tim Thomas and Martin Brodeur excepted, goaltending is not exempt from this biological certainty.

It's amazing how the entire hockey world (including Gillis and Luongo himself!) thinks Luongo's contract is terrible, and yet a small contingent of Canuck fans keep their heads firmly planted in the sand and shout to the heavens that it's actually pretty reasonable. :lol:

We have the best goaltender in the world on a super-reasonable deal and yet NOBODY wants him. That's amazing, it's too bad the entire hockey world is so stupid and a few steadfast Luongo fans are so smart.

Hell, his cap hit this year is already #12 on the list, and in a few years, his cap hit will be in the bottom half of #1 goalies.


Good. It will match his statistics from last season, which place him firmly in the bottom half of #1 goaltenders. As his inevitable decline continues, in a few years it will look even worse paying him 5.3.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby herb » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:35 pm

Pretty clear that Luongo was either untradeable or was only tradable with massive concessions in the form of the Canucks retaining salary or taking a bad contract back. Arguing otherwise is just silly because the proof is in the pudding.

That being said, Luongo is still a good goalie and has the potential to play very well. Even though some choose to point to the Luongo’s mediocre 2013 stats as some sort of long range indicator, the fact remains that he has played his best when he has played a shit ton and the 20 some odd games Luongo played last year would barely register if you put his stats on a long range chart.

Part of me thinks that the Canucks fell victim, at least partially, to the anti-hype of TSN and the like throwing Luongo’s contract under the bus at every turn. On nearly every Sportscentre some talking head commented about the massive contract. Eventually if you tell everybody it’s a terrible contract people are going to start to believe it.

All things being equal I would have preferred to keep the younger Schneider. I don’t think either goalie is perfect and both have their question marks. Luongo has his well documented meltdowns hanging over our collective heads at the start of every playoff game and Schneider has inexperience not to mention the potential for more panic attacks.

The bottom line at this point is that the Canucks were able to develop Schneider into a very good goaltender and managed to trade him for a good return. I am personally stoked about Horvat.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:39 pm

Luongo's contract became horrible the minute the new CBA was signed.

However, he's still an elite goaltender (just ask Hockey Canada)

... and his cap-hit is good for now, and who knows how long.

Last season was 20 games under ludicrous conditions.

So yeah, putting much stock in last year's numbers is madness IMPO. :drink:
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Rumsfeld » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:41 pm

I just think it sucks that the Canucks have developed and traded their best two prospects since the Sedins for... two prospects.

Both of whom have yet to be developed and are unlikely to have a ceiling as high as the assets we traded.

And unless Kassian does a complete 180 from his last season and has a monster year, neither of those prospects are doing jack shit to help us win right now.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby herb » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:47 pm

^ Your frustration is understandable. While I think Hodgson is overrated and not the kind of centre a team needs to lead them to the Promised Land, Kassian has left everybody wanting more. A player like Hodgson would have been a big help last season, no doubt about that. Would we have beaten the Sharks with Hodgson? I don’t think so.

As far as Schneider goes, the Canucks got themselves into a corner and were hooped. Part of that was self inflicted (Gillis wanting the moon, and prematurely anointing Schneider the goalie of the now and the future) and part of that was unlucky circumstances (the new CBA and the market for Luongo completely drying up).
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:59 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:I just think it sucks that the Canucks have developed and traded their best two prospects since the Sedins for... two prospects.

Both of whom have yet to be developed and are unlikely to have a ceiling as high as the assets we traded.


I hear ya, but hard to say how good Kassian and Horvat will become.

Besides, Schneider is a trembling ginger and Hodgson is a little puke. :drink:

Rumsfeld wrote:And unless Kassian does a complete 180 from his last season and has a monster year, neither of those prospects are doing jack shit to help us win right now.


IF Kassian has a breakout season, we are equally likely to win the Stanley Cup (riding Luongo).

Besides, we had to get under the falling cap somehow, amirite?
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby BurningBeard » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:43 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:I just think it sucks that the Canucks have developed and traded their best two prospects since the Sedins for...

Not to be picky, but Hodgson (who I presume you're talking about) is not one of the Canucks best two prospects since the Sedin's were drafted - that's just silly talk. Some people might even make the argument that Schneider isn't one of the best two. Just saying... :drink:
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Topper » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:01 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:I just think it sucks that the Canucks have developed and traded their best two prospects since the Sedins for...

Not to be picky, but Hodgson (who I presume you're talking about) is not one of the Canucks best two prospects since the Sedin's were drafted - that's just silly talk. Some people might even make the argument that Schneider isn't one of the best two. Just saying... :drink:

Come on Burning Beard, McGuire called him Stamkos on Stumps at the draft and told him to call his agent and demand a trade when Manny was signed, several here christened him he was Adam Oats.

Funny how a Selke winner escapes attention.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Rumsfeld » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:21 pm

Kesler turned out to be a better player than Hodgson but was much less highly touted. Kess totally overachieved what scouts, media and fans thought he would turn out to be, which was a third-line center. Hodgson was the top scorer at the most elite Junior tournament in the world and a 10th overall pick... his projection was a very good second-line center (which he is becoming).

I'd love to hear who you guys think were bigger blue-chippers than Hodgson and Cory.

I see Topper is still bitter that a player he insisted didn't have NHL-level talent is scoring at a PPG pace. :lol:
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Topper » Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:30 pm

Not bitter Rummy, just laughing at all those who didn't think I was right but are now forming a bandwagon in my wake.

Then there are those still in denial that the kid can't play D or believe he shouldn't be asked to play D. But the wiff of arrogance I spotted back at the WJC blossomed like rotting corpse.
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