Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Zedlee » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:05 am

Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote:It's a terrible contract. Pretty much indisputably.


Only because they changed the rules mid-game.


Changing the rules on a contract that was accepted by the league was total BS.

But is was still a bad contract anyway and I thought so the day it was signed. Insanity. I doubt there would have been any takers for Luongo even if the rules on hadn't changed.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Jovocop » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:23 am

Zedlee wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Only because they changed the rules mid-game.


Changing the rules on a contract that was accepted by the league was total BS.

But is was still a bad contract anyway and I thought so the day it was signed. Insanity. I doubt there would have been any takers for Luongo even if the rules on hadn't changed.


I am not sure that contract would be a problem if the rule had not changed and the cap kept going up. It would not be a huge problem this season if the cap did not come down from $70.2m (prorated to $60m) to $64.3m. Just imagine if the cap hit were $75m, Luongo's contract would be a very affordable one.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby dbr » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:47 am

darren wrote:I realize that it's de rigueur around here to hate the Leafs and all their works, but this trade provides further evidence of what is already clear: Phil Kessel is better than Tyler Seguin. Hamilton might still end up tipping the scales but on the whole that trade is not as bad as it is made out to be.

Seguin makes 5.7m (in Sedin territory)... not sure how that is "cost controlled". Kessel's next contract won't be much higher than that, if at all. That's first line money and Seguin has yet to show he's a first line player. The Bruins aren't exactly loaded with scorers, yet Seguin still can't assert himself as part of the core? Kessel has proven to be a first liner, in spades. Look at the numbers... regular season, playoffs (4G against Boston, or 4x as many goals as Seguin managed in 1/3 the games).


Putting aside the Kessel/Seguin drama, Toronto's offseason has been pretty entertaining to watch unfold.

I think Dave Bolland is a pretty good player but he's not going to replace what Mikhail Grabovski did, and Bozak soaks up all of the savings and then some in order to continue being a huge drag on the first line.

Even more entertaining is the fact that sixteen months ago Burkie signed a 28 year old Mikhail Grabovski to a five year deal at $5.5m per on the strength of a 29 goal season the year prior, now Nonis has paid almost $15m to make Grabovski's four remaining seasons go away so he can turn around and sign 29 year old David Clarkson to a seven year deal at nearly the same cap hit..
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby herb » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:10 am

dbr wrote:Putting aside the Kessel/Seguin drama, Toronto's offseason has been pretty entertaining to watch unfold.

I think Dave Bolland is a pretty good player but he's not going to replace what Mikhail Grabovski did, and Bozak soaks up all of the savings and then some in order to continue being a huge drag on the first line.

Even more entertaining is the fact that sixteen months ago Burkie signed a 28 year old Mikhail Grabovski to a five year deal at $5.5m per on the strength of a 29 goal season the year prior, now Nonis has paid almost $15m to make Grabovski's four remaining seasons go away so he can turn around and sign 29 year old David Clarkson to a seven year deal at nearly the same cap hit..


And Dave Bolland is due a big raise in a year. He’ll be UFA and this will be his big money contract. After going out and getting him, Nonis is surely angling to sign the rat bastard to a 5+ year extension at probably somewhere around $5M per year. Grabovski may have been overpaid, but he was still a good second line centre and probably represented tolerable value. I’m not sure Bolland will ever be more than an adequate second line centre (not to mention he has a soft head…another big hit and???).

If I’m a Leafs fan, I’m not totally thrilled with this off season. Bernier was a good pick up, but I don’t understand the Grabo move. They could’ve bought him out next year as they have the cap space.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Meds » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:41 am

Jovocop wrote:
Zedlee wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Only because they changed the rules mid-game.


Changing the rules on a contract that was accepted by the league was total BS.

But is was still a bad contract anyway and I thought so the day it was signed. Insanity. I doubt there would have been any takers for Luongo even if the rules on hadn't changed.


I am not sure that contract would be a problem if the rule had not changed and the cap kept going up. It would not be a huge problem this season if the cap did not come down from $70.2m (prorated to $60m) to $64.3m. Just imagine if the cap hit were $75m, Luongo's contract would be a very affordable one.


Has anyone been paying the slightest bit of attention to what top 10 goaltenders are signing for lately? Luongo's cap hit IS VERY AFFORDABLE. It's the length of the term and his age that make it undesirable. As for the recapture clauses in this new CBA, if I understand them correctly, those shouldn't slow down the trade because, if I'm not mistaken, should we trade Lou to say, Montreal, and he retires, the cap hit reverts back to the Canucks.....yes?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby dbr » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:06 pm

No. We're on the hook for our "cap benefit" and Montreal (in this hypothetical scenario) is on the hook for theirs.

So if he played four years there earning $6.7m and hitting the cap for $5.3m then retired or was traded again or whatever they'd have $5.6m in penalties (4 x $1.4m) waiting for them.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby tantalum » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:14 pm

Well keep in mind Nonis' justification for Bolland over Grabovski. and keep in mind that as you read this Bolland has been in the league for 7 years and is 27 years old.

"If you go back and look at (Bolland's) junior numbers, they're exceptional," Nonis told reporters at the NHL draft, referencing the 299 points Bolland scored during 254 games with the London Knights of the Ontario Hockey League. "He played behind some pretty good people (in Chicago) and I think Randy won't pigeon-hole him as a third-line center. I think he'll probably be put in more of a prominent role with us than he was in Chicago."


So basically, it seems as though Nonis has decided to use junior stats from a decade ago to justify the change he made at center and to top it off they will be spotting Bolland extra minutes in sweet situation (oh sorry a "more prominent role") so that Bolland gets to cash in extra big a year from now.

Nonis has $10 mil in cap space and has yet to sign Kadri. Kadri is either going to take a middling deal for one year and cash in big next summer after a big year or take pretty darn big money now on several years. How he signed Bozak before getting Kadri under contract I'll never know. Nonis has 3 NHL D-men signed and that is only if you count Liles and Gardiner as NHL D-men.

They need to move or buy out Grabovski because the Leafs are actually in cap hell now and in the future but that isn't the reason he's peddling (nor do I think he would or should). So far I think the summer has been pretty miserable for the Leafs. The only silver lining will be if Bernier proves to be a 60 game starter.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby SKYO » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:59 pm

tantalum wrote:Nonis has $10 mil in cap space and has yet to sign Kadri. Kadri is either going to take a middling deal for one year and cash in big next summer after a big year or take pretty darn big money now on several years. How he signed Bozak before getting Kadri under contract I'll never know. Nonis has 3 NHL D-men signed and that is only if you count Liles and Gardiner as NHL D-men.

And they are having problems signing Franson, wonder if he could be had for trade?

If we ever manage a big deal involving Edler it would be nice to replace those points, Franson would be a great fit on the right side playing with JayG with a couple of laser shots on the powerplay, plus Franson is a great all round pp QB.
Not to mention the TML have a plethora of other offensive minded D already, so I bet Tanev and his probable more affordable contract in addition to being more defensive minded, could be enticing to Nonis.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Meds » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:37 pm

SKYO wrote:
tantalum wrote:Nonis has $10 mil in cap space and has yet to sign Kadri. Kadri is either going to take a middling deal for one year and cash in big next summer after a big year or take pretty darn big money now on several years. How he signed Bozak before getting Kadri under contract I'll never know. Nonis has 3 NHL D-men signed and that is only if you count Liles and Gardiner as NHL D-men.

And they are having problems signing Franson, wonder if he could be had for trade?

If we ever manage a big deal involving Edler it would be nice to replace those points, Franson would be a great fit on the right side playing with JayG with a couple of laser shots on the powerplay, plus Franson is a great all round pp QB.
Not to mention the TML have a plethora of other offensive minded D already, so I bet Tanev and his probable more affordable contract in addition to being more defensive minded, could be enticing to Nonis.


Just had a look over at capgeek.....laughed at Toronto when I looked at their roster and cap space for this coming season. Barring a miracle, they are going to be a 2 line, 3 defenseman team, with unproven goaltending. I hope Leaf fans haven't forgotten too quickly what it means to be outside of the playoffs....
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby ORCA » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:48 pm

Meds wrote:
SKYO wrote:Just had a look over at capgeek.....laughed at Toronto when I looked at their roster and cap space for this coming season. Barring a miracle, they are going to be a 2 line, 3 defenseman team, with unproven goaltending. I hope Leaf fans haven't forgotten too quickly what it means to be outside of the playoffs....


Careful there, Meds...(its fun to laugh at the leafs, I agree, but...)

We have 1 line that is a dependable source of production.
Others are riddled with injury prone players and inconsistency, with holes likely to be filled with unproven young talent (hopefully the talent part sticks)

We have out of Garrison, Hamuis, Bieksa, and Edler, 2 (maybe 2.5) of them played like they belong in top 4 positions last season.

We have a dismal powerplay.

We have not improved our faceoff ability that much (if at all) so far, which could be trouble for our PK.

We have good goaltending, but a huge ? when Luongo needs a rest, or worse - is injured.

Our cap situation is not much better.

It is a long summer. Toronto may yet surprise. We may yet disappoint.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Arachnid » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:26 pm

ORCA wrote:
Meds wrote:
SKYO wrote:Just had a look over at capgeek.....laughed at Toronto when I looked at their roster and cap space for this coming season. Barring a miracle, they are going to be a 2 line, 3 defenseman team, with unproven goaltending. I hope Leaf fans haven't forgotten too quickly what it means to be outside of the playoffs....


Careful there, Meds...(its fun to laugh at the leafs, I agree, but...)

We have 1 line that is a dependable source of production.
Others are riddled with injury prone players and inconsistency, with holes likely to be filled with unproven young talent (hopefully the talent part sticks)

We have out of Garrison, Hamuis, Bieksa, and Edler, 2 (maybe 2.5) of them played like they belong in top 4 positions last season.

We have a dismal powerplay.

We have not improved our faceoff ability that much (if at all) so far, which could be trouble for our PK.

We have good goaltending, but a huge ? when Luongo needs a rest, or worse - is injured.

Our cap situation is not much better.

It is a long summer. Toronto may yet surprise. We may yet disappoint.


OMG! :shock:

Gorcaca is a Laugh fan

*shrieks and points at him like Invasion of the Body Takers*
There is no such thing as climate change...there is no such thing as climate change...there is such thing as climate change...
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Strangelove » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:14 pm

Zedlee wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote:It's a terrible contract. Pretty much indisputably.


Only because they changed the rules mid-game.


Changing the rules on a contract that was accepted by the league was total BS.

But is was still a bad contract anyway and I thought so the day it was signed. Insanity. I doubt there would have been any takers for Luongo even if the rules on hadn't changed.


Well that would have put you in the minority.

If Lou was willing to waive his NTC at the time, the Canucks would have got the world for him in a trade.

Most folks (Canuck fans AND anti-Canuckers) considered it a form of "cap-circumvention").

Which is a GOOD thing for a rich team trying to spend extra money in order to ice a better team.

It's said the NHL punished this form of "cap-circumvention" with the so-called "Luongo Rule" recapture penalty.

Luongo was considered one of the best, if not THE best, goalies in the world when he signed that deal.

Most hockey pundits figured his cap-hit would rise from $6.75mil to around $8mil.

Most hockey pundits figured it would take at least $40mil to have Lou sign away the rest of his career

($8mil times 5 years = $40mil).

Canucks brass instead found a way to lower his cap-hit to $5.3mil by tossing in an extra $24mil.

It was always assumed this 12-year $64mil contract would go *poof*

.... just as soon as Luongo's play deteriorated to a large enough degree (5 years or so?).

"Gentlemen's Agreement"

Here's an article speculating on Luongo's new contract a coupla months before the fact:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=282927

June 26, 2009

Despite being one year away from unrestricted free agency, reports are saying that goalie Roberto Luongo is discussing a contract extension with the Vancouver Canucks.

CKNW Radio in Vancouver is speculating that Luongo and his agent, Gilles Lupien, are asking for a long-term deal that would be at least five years in length, and worth a minimum of $8 million per season.

Luongo is scheduled to earn $7.5 million next season, with the Canucks taking a cap hit of $6.75 million in the final year of his current deal.

The report says that Luongo wishes to be among the highest paid goalies in the league, but he also does not want to handicap Vancouver's payroll and might be willing to take less money to make the team more competitive.

"The way Roberto wants to go, he doesn't want to hit the jackpot, he wants to have a good team," Lupien told CKNW. "And by doing that, you have to work with the team. We're looking for a bit more money, but nothing that would strangle the team. I think we're going forward to have a deal done in the future."


So yeah, it was a good deal at the time it was signed.

Genius, in fact.

Lou's meltdown a year later

... along with the Luongo Rule two years later

... along with Luongo's personal reasons for preferring to play in a couple of limited locations

... all combined to make it a not-so-good contract.

Personally I'm now convinced your Vancouver Canucks will buyout Luongo one year from now.

Luongo buyout 2014: $22,570,672

Luongo buyout 2013: $27,046,674

No need to buyout Lou when he is likely to put up Top Ten goalie numbers next season.

2014 will be the last chance to use the other Compliance Buyout.

$6.714mil salary in 2013-14 plus $22,570,672 buyout in 2014 equals $29,284,672

... for one more year of Top Ten Lou...

VERSUS

$27,046,674... and Lou is gone right now.

The cap-hit is reasonable and it gives them one more year to see what they have in Lack/Eriksson/Cannata

(a fantastic group of young goalies by all accounts).

One more chance for Lou to win a Cup before he is bought out and signs cheap with the Panthers (semi-retirement). ;)

Lou ends up with ~$52.5mil and Canucks end up with 4 years of a near-top-of-his-game Luongo.

About $20mil more than the pundits thought he'd get... but the price Aquilini's paid to keep the cap-hit at $5.3mil.

Yep, I'm convinced. 8-)

It's all good....
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Strangelove » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:16 pm

Arachnid wrote:OMG! :shock:

Gorcaca is a Laugh fan

*shrieks and points at him like Invasion of the Body Takers*


Image

(look at the name of the link) :lol:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby tantalum » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:17 pm

So back to everybody's favourite topic....Cody Hodgson. Apparently contract negotiations have gone nowhere between the Sabres and the Hodgson camp. Paul Hamilton the Sabres beat writer had a little something to say about Ritch Winter.

http://audio.wgr550.com/a/77680197/paul-hamilton-joins-sports-talk-saturday.htm?q=hamilton+winter

Find your way to about 20:15 and you'll get hamilton caling Winter one of the biggest morons to walk the earth and how he put Hasek's career in chaos and a bit more. It's a pretty loaded couple of sentences he rattles off.


Interesting that the Sabres MAY be experiencing some pain dealing with the Hodgson camp a year into his tenure as a Sabre.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Vader » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:30 am

Carl Hagelin re-signs in NY - 2yrs @ $2.25M per

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=427391

Pretty good comparison to Hansen - similar gritty two way-game, agitators, fast, good on the PK, some offence, both stink on the powerplay - every time the coach puts them out there they stink.

You'd think Hansen's next contract would be in the same area.
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