MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Meds » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:56 pm

I'm still hoping a deal can be made tonight for Edler. I would be happy if it included a draft pick next year and parts, or if it brought back a good top 6 forward.

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I'm really OK with that considering our coaching style just got a complete face lift.

I'm not saying dump Edler because he sucks, I'm saying it because he's had mental issues with consistency and is an asset that gets us a good return right now. I also think he will NOT succeed under Tortorella, and I don't want to see $5M worth of cap space end up sitting upstairs for a dozen plus games as a healthy scratch or on the bench for 43+ minutes per game.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:57 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:In regards to luongo's feelings, he made his bed. With his NMC, Gillis has to ask for permission to trade.

Luongo may have had it tough in the media for the last year, but he wanted to control his fate regarding where he played. All Lu would have had to do is say 'yes' a couple times and he would have moved long ago.

Does anyone really believe after the circus the media has splayed out, that if this Schneider deal was made yesterday, that gillis didn't ask Luongo wanted to play in jersey?? If Lu says no, gillis then says something like, "we'll hoe about our OTHER goalie then??"

Lu is a pro. He will show up for camp with zero expectations.

But leave into our media to turn it into Another controversy to sell more papers....


Luongo was never asked to waive his NTC. There wasn't a deal there that MG liked, at least since the new CBA. Since then he would have given Luongo away but other teams wanted him to retain salary/cap.

What I like is how they say other GM's were stunned and that MG could have had a higher pick. Really? Who of the top 4 were going to trade their pick for CS? Maybe the Canes might have bitten at 5 but I'm sure MG explored that too. No way he goes to Alberta without a huge overpayment.

Hell we have all heard that CS was being shopped. Other GM's didn't hear that or pick up the phone? If there was a better deal out there MG takes it. Maybe they all thought MG was playing chicken and really would not trade CS who knows but if you are a GM in need of a franchise goalie and you know Vancouver has two and must move one why were you not all over it? Why is this just MG's failing? Hey Nonuts, did you offer up a good deal for CS or did you just grab Bernier with a hope and a prayer?

Really do these guys think the Avs, Tampa or Florida were going to trade the top pick? Nashville didn't need a goalie and they were thrilled to get Jones. I wouldn't be surprised if MG slighted teams that low balled him on Luongo but I don't for a second think he left a better deal on the table.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Strangelove » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:59 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
Hoss wrote:I highly recommend the HF Canucks board right now. Chicken Littles screaching and scratching all over the place. Quite entertaining.

For a website dedicated to prospects you'd think they'd have heard of Lack, Eriksson and Cannata.


It's amazing how clueless people on that board are.

tantalum wrote:I think the HFboards crowd is up in arms because they believe goaltenders have huge value.

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Bunch of drama queens.


It's amazing, every other post in the Canuck forum over there reads like this:

Image

:D

Maybe they just need time to get their heads around this.

Mind you Gillis didn't make it easy on.... the more fragile... Canuck fans.

Can't remember a team ever pretty much declaring they were going to trade a big-contract player

.... + said player pretty much declaring he wanted outta town

.... and then it turning out that said player remains with said team.

Can't remember that ever happening.

Though of course there's never been a season where cap was shrinking and the contract ran to... old age.

So 'first time for everything'?

There IS a risk LOU might not be able to get his head around this.

And THAT is scary.... on the surface.

But when you think about it, if that happens he holds out and his contract gets voided.

Not likely.

Hey I'm happy.

I was one of the ones arguing for Lou in the Luongo-Schneider debates last year.

I finally gave it up when "Team Management" seemed to hand the ball to Schneids.

That and the fact that, like I say, it's never happened before....

Then i turned into one of those "Shut the hell up about trading Schneids" guys.

Ummm sorry about that.

I can't argue about the assets added to your Vancouver Canucks organization today, that's for damn sure.

And I never stopped believing in Lou. :thumbs:

Interested to see what other changes are made between now and October....
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Strangelove » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:00 pm

Madcombinepilot wrote:In regards to luongo's feelings, he made his bed. With his NMC, Gillis has to ask for permission to trade.


Mot to nitpick, but it's a NTC.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby SKYO » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:05 pm

lol^ :)

Anyways lets hope Lu can get his mind back into Vancouver and help us win a cup with a stellar playoff performance with a new mental focus brought upon by Torts.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Strangelove » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:06 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:If he chooses to not report or retire the Canucks are screwed cap wise and goaltender wise but I just can't see that happening.


If he chooses to not report, Canucks would suspend him = no cap-hit.

If he chooses to not retire, the Cap Recapture penalty would kick in at $825,556 (through 2021-22).

So yeah, not totally screwed....
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby coco_canuck » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:15 pm

It's pretty clear to me the Canucks had their sights set on Horvat and weren't going to give him to Edmonton for the 7th when Horvat would still be around at 9th unless the Oilers sweetened the pot.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby ukcanuck » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:22 pm

Realistically luongo has no choice but to report and like it too.
The alternative is to never play in the NHL again or at such a reduced pay check he might as well take up pro poker.

He absolutely has to rebuild his credibility as if he ever wants out when his contract window opens.

if he sulks and his stats nosedive...nobody wants him at this price now.

The best thing for him and the team and his future is to show up be professional get behind the team win a Stanley cup or come real close and not have it be his fault they lose.

Besides its a new coach and really that's the guy (AV) who really fucked over luongo against LA and SJ anyway...

I have no doubt luongo will be back in net and stoning forwards as per usual.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Lancer » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:40 pm

I will, however, have at least one reason to watch NJ-Tor games - if only to watch Schneider shut them out and make Leaf fans cry, and stick it to Cheezeburglar. Coulda shoulda woulda, ya fatboy.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:41 pm

coco_canuck wrote:It's pretty clear to me the Canucks had their sights set on Horvat and weren't going to give him to Edmonton for the 7th when Horvat would still be around at 9th unless the Oilers sweetened the pot.


My guess as well.

Wanted Horvat, were fairly sure they could get him at 9, so no point helping a team in our division.

I suspect GMMG sees Horvat as the no3 a year from now and I don't think there is anyone else in the draft like that.

Shinkaruk was simply the pba at 24, and a typical Gillis move.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby dbr » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:48 pm

Honestly I thought we could get better for Schneider than this.. I was hoping for a Carter/Richards type return.

But with goaltenders.. it is what it is. I think that if the Canucks are jazzed about Horvat, it doesn't matter too much that we didn't get another draft pick, or a prospect or maybe a cheapo roster player back along with him.

I think we should have got that for Schneider, but if Horvat is the guy then you take him rather than taking the 11th and 41st picks from Philly just to get that second asset.

All that being said, Cory's going to go to New Jersey and play lights out hockey for two years and then they'll be paying him top dollar.. still a huge part of that team (assuming he wants to stay there) but a lot of the value will be gone from a cap perspective. I can see why a team wouldn't necessarily mortgage the future for that.

As for Luongo.. the guy is more or less a professional. He'll stay and he'll play and most of the time he'll play really well.

Maybe the Canucks take a couple of long looks at Lack and Eriksson this year and if they like what they see, Roberto moves to Florida next summer. According to Capgeek his out clause comes at the end of 2013-14 so if the Canucks plan to respect that then he may not be around too much longer.

Strangelove wrote:
SKYO wrote:lol but yeah Francesco will have to purchase a home for him, like Lu needs more money, but that's the type of love Luongo needs to feel better. :P


Yeah I heard the other day Lou's condo in Vancouver sold.

Is it true?

Bridges have been burnt, I just don't see Lou coming back and being happy no matter HOW much Aqua pumps his tires.


Maybe FAQ is in Florida putting in an offer on the condo. He can rent it to Roberto while he plays out the string in Vancouver for a really good rate I'll bet.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Strangelove » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:32 pm

dbr wrote:Maybe the Canucks take a couple of long looks at Lack and Eriksson this year and if they like what they see, Roberto moves to Florida next summer. According to Capgeek his out clause comes at the end of 2013-14 so if the Canucks plan to respect that then he may not be around too much longer.


Yeah if the cap jumps up a lot next summer, and Lou has a great season, he could be more tradable.

Alternatively, if Lack/Eriksson look fantastic they could compliance-buyout Lou in one year's time.

Maybe Aquaman flew to Florida just to say to him "C'mon Lou, give it ONE MORE YEAR" ;)
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby UWSaint » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:38 pm

Inevitable in many ways.

Once there wasn't going to be a return for Luongo, the reasonable question is how much better is Cory Schneider than Roberto Luongo over the next two years. Answer -- better, but better than a first round pick?

Personally, I think that Cory Schneider is a hell of a goaltender. As good as Luongo in 2006-7 or 2010-11. Very composed, fundamentally solid, quick. I am going to miss him as a Canuck. I also think the return could have been a little better if the Canucks had been able to take on a roster player, but there are other things at work -- namely the CBA and the Canucks cap situation. GMMG wasn't joking when he said this trade happened when the CBA was signed....

This doesn't make the Canucks better next season, because Luongo < Schneider and the pick isn't making an impact for at least 2 years. But Luongo is still good, might be very good again, and is still ahead of Dan Cloutier and whoever is playing in Toronto next year..... Right? And Schneider was only a Canuck for two more years....

The problem is that is this team's remaining window.... My verdict: not an irrational move, but it shows there is a limit to the owner's purse, because it was this or buyouts. I'll pull for Luongo; I'll pull for the Canucks; but we are in 2005-2006 again, Canuck fans. An aging team without elite goaltending. We don't have a top 10 goalie, and it is very hard to win without one unless you are the Chicago Blackhawks or have Sidney Crosby.

Good luck, CS, you are one of my favorite all-time Canucks. Wish I had seen you play more.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby ESQ » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:57 pm

Meds wrote:My only concern is that Lou's response was something along the lines of, I don't know yet, I need time to let this sink in. I'm going to call my agent and decide what I'm going to do.

That is odd, and I don't understand what the implications of that are.

Nonetheless, I AM SO HAPPY THE CANUCKS DIDN'T TRADE THE BEST PLAYER IN FRANCHISE HISTORY. You know Luongo is going to pull a Theodore/Bryzgalov/Mason/MAF and disappear completely, based on a decade of elite performance. Schneider was an elite back-up no question, but he was not an elite starter last year and he's shown nothing in the playoffs thus far when given the opportunity to take over. Schneider may end up with Luongo's consistent greatness, but that's far more of a gamble than Luongo.

Of course, the whole panic attack thing makes me think the gamble on Schneider is untenable. For the most pressure-filled position in sports, that is an absolute dealbreaker for me.

I think its funny that nobody (pundits or learned posters on this site) pegged the Devils as a potential buyer. They haven't bought a goalie in 20 years so no surprise they went under the radar...I do recall that NJ was reluctant to give a second year to Brodeur so he may have committed to retiring after next season.

Strangelove wrote:Can't remember a team ever pretty much declaring they were going to trade a big-contract player

.... + said player pretty much declaring he wanted outta town

.... and then it turning out that said player remains with said team.

Can't remember that ever happening.

Closest I can think of is Lecavalier demanding a trade in 2002 after losing the captaincy under Torts....Feaster refused to trade him and it seemed to work out in the end.

As for the roster player return, I can't figure out what this Bo Horvat guy is on, but he is fricking massive - 6' 210 pounds at 18 years old. A physique like that could very well be the first 18 year old to crack the Canucks since ...Linden? He will likely get every opportunity to make this team in camp, and he may very well be a roster player come October.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby ClamRussel » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:53 pm

coco_canuck wrote:It's pretty clear to me the Canucks had their sights set on Horvat and weren't going to give him to Edmonton for the 7th when Horvat would still be around at 9th unless the Oilers sweetened the pot.
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