Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

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Lancer
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by Lancer » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:16 am

Vinny bought out.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=426423

Doubt that they'd use the space to take on another big, long contract, but peace of mind in net doesn't come cheap.

...and so it begins. :)
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by RoyalDude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:59 am

Lancer wrote: Doubt that they'd use the space to take on another big, long contract
Ya think
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by RoyalDude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:20 am

Mondi wrote:The idea that Luongo is "piece of mind" in goal is flawed.

He's 34. He's coming off his worst statistical season since his rookie year. He's got a boat anchor contract. He's legendary for getting lit up in big games.

On the flip side he's the second most winning active goaltender, and he'd likely benefit from a clean slate.

Piece of mind, I think not.

This guy is prime for a compliance buyout, and a fresh start (at a reasonable price).
Gillis is a real visionary. He planned this real well. What did he say "we know what he is worth, we won't give him away...blah, blah, blah
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Lancer
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by Lancer » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:26 am

Mondi wrote:The idea that Luongo is "piece of mind" in goal is flawed.

He's 34. He's coming off his worst statistical season since his rookie year. He's got a boat anchor contract. He's legendary for getting lit up in big games.

On the flip side he's the second most winning active goaltender, and he'd likely benefit from a clean slate.

Piece of mind, I think not.

This guy is prime for a compliance buyout, and a fresh start (at a reasonable price).
No doubt banging my head against a (rather thick) brick wall with you and dude, but the contract issue is nowhere near as onerous as Cheezeburglar's bum-boy Dreger and his circle-jerk crew make it out to be. But whatever, keep drinking that Toronto-brewed koolaid there, kiddies.

As for 'peace of mind' try convincing Tallon, Holmgren, MacTavish, Sakic, etc., etc., etc. that they have more peace of mind with the goalies on their current roster than what Luongo would bring. Luongo played for a team that went through the motions most nights (and still managed to win the division) this past season while still dealing (admirably, most have said) with his personal and professional situations. He backstopped his team as far as they could go and the fact they didn't win the Cup is as much on his teammates as it was on him.

Luongo would totally do better on a different team, and every GM knows it. If GMs are waiting for Luongo to be bought out and try and nab him via FA, they take a risk knowing that they will be competing with a number of other clubs for his services - with an ever-shrinking market of decent netminders. Who wants to risk going into next season with the likes of Nabokov after having lost out on bidding for a bought-out Luongo, when they can make a reasonable trade and get him at a very reasonable cap hit? If Luongo gets traded, it's a matter of him playing for a team he can live with. As a UFA, he will choose where he wants to play most. If you're Philly or Long Island, you know if he goes as a UFA, you will be climbing a cliff if he wants to play in Florida. Why not then trade for him while he's under contract, knowing that he would likely waive to play for you - even if it's not his first choice? It comes down to how much of a chance GMs are willing to take on premier goaltending, and depending on the trade price, Luongo in trade would be a low-risk bet compared to trying to nab him in free-agency.

But you and the rest of the Gillis-hating mob just keep drinking the Dreger's milky-white ass-juice/koolaid. :drink:
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by RoyalDude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:41 am

Lancer wrote:
Mondi wrote:The idea that Luongo is "piece of mind" in goal is flawed.

He's 34. He's coming off his worst statistical season since his rookie year. He's got a boat anchor contract. He's legendary for getting lit up in big games.

On the flip side he's the second most winning active goaltender, and he'd likely benefit from a clean slate.

Piece of mind, I think not.

This guy is prime for a compliance buyout, and a fresh start (at a reasonable price).
No doubt banging my head against a (rather thick) brick wall with you and dude, but the contract issue is nowhere near as onerous as Cheezeburglar's bum-boy Dreger and his circle-jerk crew make it out to be. But whatever, keep drinking that Toronto-brewed koolaid there, kiddies.

As for 'peace of mind' try convincing Tallon, Holmgren, MacTavish, Sakic, etc., etc., etc. that they have more peace of mind with the goalies on their current roster than what Luongo would bring. Luongo played for a team that went through the motions most nights (and still managed to win the division) this past season while still dealing (admirably, most have said) with his personal and professional situations. He backstopped his team as far as they could go and the fact they didn't win the Cup is as much on his teammates as it was on him.

Luongo would totally do better on a different team, and every GM knows it. If GMs are waiting for Luongo to be bought out and try and nab him via FA, they take a risk knowing that they will be competing with a number of other clubs for his services - with an ever-shrinking market of decent netminders. Who wants to risk going into next season with the likes of Nabokov after having lost out on bidding for a bought-out Luongo, when they can make a reasonable trade and get him at a very reasonable cap hit? If Luongo gets traded, it's a matter of him playing for a team he can live with. As a UFA, he will choose where he wants to play most. If you're Philly or Long Island, you know if he goes as a UFA, you will be climbing a cliff if he wants to play in Florida. Why not then trade for him while he's under contract, knowing that he would likely waive to play for you - even if it's not his first choice? It comes down to how much of a chance GMs are willing to take on premier goaltending, and depending on the trade price, Luongo in trade would be a low-risk bet compared to trying to nab him in free-agency.

But you and the rest of the Gillis-hating mob just keep drinking the Dreger's milky-white ass-juice/koolaid. :drink:
Lol

Good stuff lance

With regards to Lou I hope you're right

We will find out soon enough. If its a buyout, you're Boi and Blobs is gonna get a big black mark on his cred
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by Groovypippin » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:02 am

I don't have a working crystal ball, so I can no better predict the future than anyone else here. It is, however, my recently arrived at opinion that Lu's contract is CURRENTLY untradeable without taking back a very sizable chunk of his salary and cap.

And judging the cap recapture provisions of the new CBA, looking at how little would be saved cap-wise by retaining significant salary, and the future cap and financial penalty upon Lu's retirement, I can't help but think a buyout is actually best the for the Canucks as well.

Unfortunately, I firmly believe that the Aqualini's won't green light a buyout. A) because they are greedy, tight-fisted owners and B) they are prideful, arrogant and unwilling to own up to the mistake THEY made driving the bus on the Loungo contract.

So, believe it or not, I think we get to the end of the summer with Lu still on the roster as crazy as that sounds.

I would be delighted to be proven wrong and hope I am.

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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by rats19 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:08 am

Maybe Vancouver is not such a bad place to play. Maybe Mrs Lou see the writing on the wall and just gets onboard..schneids is good trade fodder...no?
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by RoyalDude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:12 am

rats19 wrote:. Maybe Mrs Lou see the writing on the wall and just gets onboard..schneids is good trade fodder...no?
I think Rummy, Blobby and Doc might have a different opinion
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by Jovocop » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:27 am

Groovypippin wrote:I don't have a working crystal ball, so I can no better predict the future than anyone else here. It is, however, my recently arrived at opinion that Lu's contract is CURRENTLY untradeable without taking back a very sizable chunk of his salary and cap.

And judging the cap recapture provisions of the new CBA, looking at how little would be saved cap-wise by retaining significant salary, and the future cap and financial penalty upon Lu's retirement, I can't help but think a buyout is actually best the for the Canucks as well.

Unfortunately, I firmly believe that the Aqualini's won't green light a buyout. A) because they are greedy, tight-fisted owners and B) they are prideful, arrogant and unwilling to own up to the mistake THEY made driving the bus on the Loungo contract.

So, believe it or not, I think we get to the end of the summer with Lu still on the roster as crazy as that sounds.

I would be delighted to be proven wrong and hope I am.
Unfortunately, the cap would not allow that to happen.

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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by RoyalDude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:34 am

Pretty much. Can't take a big bad contract back unless we move a few more big ones out like Ballard and Booth, but apparently we can't buy Booth out so I guess we could buy Ballard out and trade lets say Edler for a draft pick. Would that make the room?
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by dbr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:48 am

RoyalDude wrote:Pretty much. Can't take a big bad contract back unless we move a few more big ones out like Ballard and Booth, but apparently we can't buy Booth out so I guess we could buy Ballard out and trade lets say Edler for a draft pick. Would that make the room?
Assuming:

-Compliance buyout for Ballard
-$3.25m for Tanev, Schroeder and Weise combined
-Lack is our backup
-No other new faces

Then the Canucks are at $6.18m in cap space if they move Luongo for nothing - with probably 2 forwards and 3 defensemen left to add.

You're probably talking about 6th/7th/8th defensemen so you can probably put them at an average of say $900k, and one of the forwards is probably a fourth liner so let's say he takes up $750k.

That would leave the team room for one forward making about $2.7m.

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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by Aaronp18 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:50 am

The new CBA allows cash and cap space to be traded doesn't it?

So why would then Canucks buyout Luongo at $1.5M for the next 18 years if they can try and move him and offer to pay $1.5M of his contract for the remaining 9 years of his deal?

This would entice teams like FLA and NYI who wouldn't mind the cap hit but don't have the bank roll the Canucks have.

Canucks save half the cost of the buyout and FLA gets Luongo for a savings of $1.5M per year.

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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by dbr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:59 am

Aaronp18 wrote:The new CBA allows cash and cap space to be traded doesn't it?

So why would then Canucks buyout Luongo at $1.5M for the next 18 years if they can try and move him and offer to pay $1.5M of his contract for the remaining 9 years of his deal?

This would entice teams like FLA and NYI who wouldn't mind the cap hit but don't have the bank roll the Canucks have.

Canucks save half the cost of the buyout and FLA gets Luongo for a savings of $1.5M per year.
Well the conventional wisdom is that since the Canucks lose $13.5m in cap space over 9 years, it's worse than losing more cash and no cap space.

That being said, holding onto $1.3m (and change) out of his cap space means it brings his actual salary down under $5m for the remainder of the deal, and his cap hit down below $4m - if there isn't a market for Luongo and retaining that salary and cap hit creates one and allows us to get a substantial return... I'd think long and hard on it.

IMO, in four or five years ~$1.3m in dead cap space isn't even going to seem significant.

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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by ESQ » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:00 am

Lancer wrote:Vinny bought out.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=426423

Doubt that they'd use the space to take on another big, long contract, but peace of mind in net doesn't come cheap.

...and so it begins. :)
I'm shocked Vinny got bought out. There must be a tacit agreement for him to go away for a year then come back to Tampa on a cheap deal.

After seeing that happen, I have to admit a Luongo buyout is looking like more of a possibility.

People have been saying there's a waiver window for compliance buyouts, I haven't seen this mentioned anywere, can anyone verify that a compliance buyout has to start with waivers?

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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Post by Aaronp18 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:08 am

dbr wrote: Well the conventional wisdom is that since the Canucks lose $13.5m in cap space over 9 years, it's worse than losing more cash and no cap space.

That being said, holding onto $1.3m (and change) out of his cap space means it brings his actual salary down under $5m for the remainder of the deal, and his cap hit down below $4m - if there isn't a market for Luongo and retaining that salary and cap hit creates one and allows us to get a substantial return... I'd think long and hard on it.

IMO, in four or five years ~$1.3m in dead cap space isn't even going to seem significant.
I don't completely understand the whole trading of cap space and salary but can the Canucks not simply pay some of Luo's salary while the whole cap hit of $5.3M is applied to the team that takes Luo?

This I would see as a benefit to team like FLA and NYI who have issues getting to the cap floor sometimes. And in the next few years if the cap goes back up as anticipated it will become more valuable that way.

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