Re-sign the Sedins thread

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Re-sign the Sedins?

Yes
33
75%
No
5
11%
Maybe
4
9%
Who gives a shit
2
5%
 
Total votes : 44

Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Jovocop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:04 am

5thhorseman wrote:
Jovocop wrote:
The Sedins are a lot tougher than what people give them credit for. Just because they don't fight nor push and shove after the whistle, people assume that they have no balls. Every game they take lots of beatings playing along the boards. On the other hand, guys like Cooke and Brown are what I would have called no balls. They are cheapshots artists that never face the challenge.


I don't dispute that the Sedins are tough in a iron-man, playing-through-injury, withstanding-cheapshots, taking-punishment-while-cycling-the-puck-along-the-boards kind of way, but having balls means having the courage to stand up for yourself and others even if it means you might take a beating. Daniel didn't do that, and I can imagine how disheartening it would have been for the entire team to witness that. Add in their guilt for not defending him in the first place. And whether it's right or not, we place Hank in the same bucket and judge him accordingly. In that instance I think it would have been better for Daniel to get into a scrap with Marchand, even losing badly, just to show some fighting spirit and rally the team. I don't subscribe to the theory that your superstars should never need to stand up for themselves. That was fine in the Gretzky era but doesn't apply anymore.


The Sedins are nice people and I don't think fighting is in their blood at all. The problem is not whether they should fight pests like Marchand. The league and the zebras should stop those stupid acts after the whistles. I cannot think of any other major sports allowing these types of antics. As fans, we pay to watch skilled players not pests!
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby rats19 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:11 am

rats19 wrote:Our top 2 scorers of all time are being questioned about their toughness because Daniel refused to respond to marchand and and his repeated punching. Daniel made the decision..a snap decision to draw a penalty instead. Turns out it didn't work and he should have fought him. But its bullshit the entire argument has no merit.

You can't be soft and tough as nails at the same time.

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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Topper » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:15 am

rats19 wrote:
rats19 wrote:Our top 2 scorers of all time are being questioned about their toughness because Daniel refused to respond to marchand and and his repeated punching. Daniel made the decision..a snap decision to draw a penalty instead. Turns out it didn't work and he should have fought him. But its bullshit the entire argument has no merit.

You can't be soft and tough as nails at the same time.

Should I have swore more?

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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby 5thhorseman » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:20 am

Sorry guys, I appreciate all your arguments but I still cringe every time I see the Sedins involved in some after the whistle melee. I have no doubt of their toughness, heart, or contribution, and if they don't re-sign this team is going to be circling the drain, but the bottom line is that they can't allow themselves to be bullied. Like Torts says, we need to show a bit more stiffness, and for me that means not skating backwards when the pushing begins, and certainly responding when punched. I don't think it was a "snap decision" by Daniel, it's natural for him to shy away from a fight and he'll automatically react the same way every time.

I'll stop flogging this horse now.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby dbr » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:31 am

5thhorseman wrote:Sorry guys, I appreciate all your arguments but I still cringe every time I see the Sedins involved in some after the whistle melee. I have no doubt of their toughness, heart, or contribution, and if they don't re-sign this team is going to be circling the drain, but the bottom line is that they can't allow themselves to be bullied. Like Torts says, we need to show a bit more stiffness, and for me that means not skating backwards when the pushing begins, and certainly responding when punched. I don't think it was a "snap decision" by Daniel, it's natural for him to shy away from a fight and he'll automatically react the same way every time.

I'll stop flogging this horse now.


I understand why they didn't "fight back" in the past, although in the Marchand case it obviously didn't work out.

But I mean, people don't expect Pat Kane or whoever to truly fight their own battles beyond giving the odd whack back am I right? I mean if you're going to throw the Marchand thing in Daniel's face like another cheap rabbit punch, I think the far more serious indictment goes to the rest of the team (although I am confident they were all just following the mandate to get as many PPs as they could - even though the first unit was in tatters). I mean, where were they when their star player was being pushed around?

Anyway I agree that more stiffness is called for in the future, I'm curious to see what that means to the Sedins but I am pretty damn sure I know what it means for their teammates.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby herb » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:43 am

That is great news H-Dub that the Sedins are looking for multi-year extensions that should be signed before training camp. I think the last thing the team needs this year is a media driven sideshow about whether or not the Sedins are done in Vancouver.

As far as the Sedins being tough, I think they are as tough as most other superstar leaders in this league. Would I have loved to have seen Danny drop Marchand with a few haymakers? Hell yeah, but I don’t think that incident was the reason we lost the series. In the future, I don’t think Danny would take shots like that from the rat faced bastard.


The Tortorella talk about “stiffness” has me interested. I’m not sure what that means for the Sedins, but I think it means being harder to play against and taking less BS.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby ESQ » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:32 am

herb wrote:The Tortorella talk about “stiffness” has me interested. I’m not sure what that means for the Sedins, but I think it means being harder to play against and taking less BS.

I hope it means he will loosen the reins a bit on retaliation, which AV was notorious for forbidding. Its all well and good for Gillis to acquire big, bruising guys, but if AV benches Kassian for any penalty taken then those guys are less effective.

As DBR says, the Sedins shouldn't need to fight Marchand in that situation. Someone else should come up and smack the little rat around and put him in his place. I believe that this was a directive from AV and not a reflection of the players and it bit us in the ass big time - not only did the Canucks not get the obvious call in those situations in the Finals, but they got a reputation as whiners and divers and got fewer Power Plays in the two seasons since. You never saw "tough" "gritty" team captains fight, other than once or twice a year - i.e. Iginla, Lecavalier, Toews, etc. It is awesome when it happens, but it stands out in people's minds because it is such a rare occurrence.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby ORCA » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:40 am

herb wrote:Would I have loved to have seen Danny drop Marchand with a few haymakers? Hell yeah, but I don’t think that incident was the reason we lost the series.


I doubt most people think that is the reason we lost either. However, to most it was 'the' definitive sign that Vancouver had run out of gas, for whatever reason. I tend to agree.

I'd also agree with dbr's assessment that the weight should fall on the team. Where was ANY retaliation? Where was ANY response? Where was ANY tit-for-tat? Nobody stepped up to any of Boston's bullshit in lieu of the zebras leaving their whistles in the change room.

Anywhoo... people should know by now that the Sedins are not chippy, reactionary players after the whistle and they will never be. Their effectiveness has always been eating up clock in the offensive zone and scoring by capitalizing on dropped coverage... usually as a result of constant offensive pressure.

If they continue to be effective in this way... why would you not continue to welcome them back? There are certainly more defficient players on this team, that in theory would be much easier to replace/upgrade on an open market, and even from the farm team.

Hopefully Torts will employ a bit of "earn your spot" competition... god knows AV really had his favorites.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Groovypippin » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:44 am

dbr wrote:I understand why they didn't "fight back" in the past, although in the Marchand case it obviously didn't work out.

But I mean, people don't expect Pat Kane or whoever to truly fight their own battles beyond giving the odd whack back am I right? I mean if you're going to throw the Marchand thing in Daniel's face like another cheap rabbit punch, I think the far more serious indictment goes to the rest of the team (although I am confident they were all just following the mandate to get as many PPs as they could - even though the first unit was in tatters). I mean, where were they when their star player was being pushed around?


+1 This!

No one in Chicago expects Pat Kane to step up and defend himself - although he takes very little actual abuse because he is so damn slippery. If someone touched Kane after a whistle the entire Chicago team would be on his back. That mentality/approach has been lacking on the Canucks. The Sedins would be much more effective if opposing players knew they would have their heads taken off for touching them - which is why I remain a fan on playing them with Kassian.

It is a challenge though, because there are always TWO Sedins on the ice - which makes for fewer players available to immediately step in if liberties are taken. I would note, however, that I say both Herik and Daniel - Henrik in particular - retaliating on their own more frequently last season.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby herb » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:59 am

ESQ wrote:I hope it means he will loosen the reins a bit on retaliation, which AV was notorious for forbidding. Its all well and good for Gillis to acquire big, bruising guys, but if AV benches Kassian for any penalty taken then those guys are less effective.


I agree; it does seem as though AV’s mantra of playing between the whistles, turning the other cheek and letting the refs handle it was a mistake. Some players feed off of that raw energy that comes from the emotional aspects of professional hockey. Maybe AV’s philosophy was holding some of these guys back Bieksa, Kesler and Kassian in particular seem to thrive on raw emotion and adrenaline.

I hope Torts comes in with a clean slate and no preconceived notions of who plays with whom. I want to see an open competition in training camp, and a real re-evaluation of the team from the coaching staff. Just because player x has been successful in the past playing with player y, that shouldn’t mean the coaches don’t re-evaluate line-up decisions from time to time.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:48 pm

It is a balancing act with respect to Torts loosening the reigns. Keep in mind his teams are typically in the category of least penalized. So somewhere between offering an appropriate response and avoiding a man short situation you have to find a way to be tougher. Make sure the other guy gets a penalty too, no lazy retaliation shots.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Topper » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:06 pm

Hockey Widow wrote: no lazy retaliation shots.

Be the aggressor.
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Per » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:52 pm

The_Pauser wrote: Torres and Lapierre both had 2 GWG's in the SCF.

If Torres and Lapierre both had two gwg's in the SCF, how come we didn't win? :eh:
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:07 pm

Per wrote:
The_Pauser wrote: Torres and Lapierre both had 2 GWG's in the SCF.

If Torres and Lapierre both had two gwg's in the SCF, how come we didn't win? :eh:


Good pick up Per. LOL
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Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread

Postby Reefer2 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:07 pm

If AV called a time out and switched goalies, Marchand would never of done what he did.
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