Gills and Vigneault

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Tciso
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Tciso »

dbr wrote:Thank god we took Luc Bourdon over Anze Kopitar (is Slovenia even a country, LOL), that kid had enough guts to take anything head on.
Dbr, that is way off side, even in my books.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by dbr »

I don't know what you're talking about. Please stay on topic.

edit: sorry if I offended any Slovenians.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Vader »

Mëds wrote: I very much doubt that all of the "late round picks" that RD and a few others like to brag about for Boston were selected by their GM on a gut feeling which made him throw out the scouting reports and pass over multiple players that the scouts were recommending he select.
Brad Marchand is an example of a guy the Bruins identified as having a legitmate shot at playing so their GM acquired a 3rd round pick to draft him:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... ?pid=80463
2006-Jun-24 Draft pick rights traded from New York Islanders to Boston Bruins for round 4 pick in the 2006 draft (James DeLory) and round 5 pick in the 2006 draft (Shane Sims)
Drafting in later rounds isn't all blind luck
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tantalum
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by tantalum »

I know it's pointless to track trades for years and years but it is interesting that 4 current Bruins forwards can be traced to the Neely trade. Of note no current canuck can be traced back to the trade. The line ends at Mike Ridley. However, the big St. louis deal for Courtnall, Momesso and Ronning can be traced back to that deal as Dan Quinn was acquired from Pittsburgh when Pederson was traded.

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Topper »

Tciso wrote:
dbr wrote:Thank god we took Luc Bourdon over Anze Kopitar (is Slovenia even a country, LOL), that kid had enough guts to take anything head on.
Dbr, that is way off side, even in my books.
Yes, Luc was on the off side of the road.
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coco_canuck
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by coco_canuck »

Mëds wrote: But all of them are soft. I don't know that any of them would stand out as the stars they were against a team like Boston. The Swedish style of hockey is beginning to look more and more like one that is not going to translate into post-season success in the NHL.

Yet here we are still listening to prospect news that says the Canucks are focused on Swedish players.
This is nonsense to me, really.

The Bruins have 5 Europeans, including their leading playoff scorer (Krejci), top 2 D-men (Chara/Seidenberg) and their goalie (Rask). And the 5th one is Jagr.

The Blackhawks have dressed up to 8 Europeans in playoff games, including their top scorer (Hossa).

This season, the Canucks dressed 4 Europeans in the playoffs.

It's not about where a player comes from, it's the type of player he is. He can come from the Sudan for all I care, if the dude can play the type of hockey we need him to play in a given role, so be it.
Mëds wrote: Get away from this Detroit Red Wing philosophy that seems to stock up on late round European and Scandinavian players. Throw it out. Keep the part that develops players in the minors and brings them up when they are ready, keep looking at the future and build with it in mind.
The only European Gillis has drafted with a 1st round pick is Jensen, who is a Danish player with a Canadian born father and he's honed his game in North America.

Of the 19 picks the Canucks have had between rounds 1-5 since Gillis took over, 6 have been European. High picks have mostly been used on North American players.

I don't see it as Gillis targeting Euros, his philosophy, whether you agree with it or not, has been to find players others may overlook, which in this case is an extra emphasis on NCAA players.

The European distinction is silly. It's about finding the right players. You can win with lots of Europeans on the team but you have to find the right balance of particular players to make any roster combination work.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by ukcanuck »

The question I would have is why so few WHL grads?

Finding diamonds in the rough is all well and good but the playpen where the real diamonds are is junior in places like northern BC Alta Sask and Man.

I guess Gillis would say that picking at 28,29 or (I wish) 30th forces one to be innovative but late first and second rounders can and have panned out too.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by herb »

ukcanuck wrote:I guess Gillis would say that picking at 28,29 or (I wish) 30th forces one to be innovative but late first and second rounders can and have panned out too.
Which one of Gillis’ late first round picks has not panned out? Schroeder, Jensen and Gaunce are all on a trajectory to becoming NHL players.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Boston Canucker »

coco_canuck wrote:
The European distinction is silly. It's about finding the right players. You can win with lots of Europeans on the team but you have to find the right balance of particular players to make any roster combination work.
Yes, too right. Fact is, Toews has been mediocre at best, as the captain of the Hawks (but he's Canadian, how can that be?!?), whereas it looks like Chara is well positioned to captain his team to their 2nd cup in 3 years (like the success some guy from Sweden named Lidstrom had not too long ago, with some guys named Zetterberg and Franzen playing not too poorly in the playoffs as I recall). And either Krecji or Rask look like the leading candidates for Conn Smythe. If Toews was European the critique would undoubtedly be linked to his heritage (1 goal all playoffs!), but he's Canadian...so, well, he doesn't then represent the group and gets a general pass. You can get great players/leaders from any part of the hockey playing world (and shitty players too), focusing on one country out of some stereotype is both lazy and stupid, and thus a very bad way to manage a team.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Diehard1 »

Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Boston Canucker »

Diehard1 wrote:Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......
I totally agree, on all points. I was probably being too generous on "mediocre," yes.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by ukcanuck »

Boston Canucker wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......
I totally agree, on all points. I was probably being too generous on "mediocre," yes.
Holy crap really? 4 goals in 41 games? What does that work out to in percentage of time on ice, he must be getting decent ice time...lol the Sedins must be like wtf?
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by KeyserSoze »

Diehard1 wrote:Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......
Captaining your team to their first cup in 49 years and winning the Conn Smythe along the way generally buys you a bit of grace moving forward.

Unfortunately we really don't know if the twins would be ripped a new one or not for lacklustre playoff production after winning a cup and Conn Smythe :(
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

RoyalDude wrote:
Sweeping Changes Dat. Bold Moves Dat. We will be the Calgary Flames for the next 5 years, slowly dipping each season, hovering above .500 hockey scraping into the line-up, constantly tinkering with the bottom 6, making bad tades sacrificing the future for journeyman veterens, and eventually, we will be where Calgary is now, once the Sedins are gone. Bold Moves Gillis, there you have it.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Knucklehead wrote:A chronology of failure, previous canucks GM's:

19070 - 1973 Norman "Bud" Poile: lost the spin of the wheel and destroyed Dale Talon by trying to make him into a forward.

1973 - 1974 Lary Coe: who?

1974 - 1976 Phil Malony: I don't remember much about Phil good or bad.

1977 -1981 Jake frigging Milford: How the hell do you trade Derlago and Vaive for scraps? I get it that Derlago skated around checking out the puck bunnies in the stands most of the night, but god dammit the 2 or 3 minutes he showed up every night he was dominant! And what can you say about giving up on Rick Vaive a year or two after drafting him.

This was the stupidest trade in Canucks history until:

1982 - 1986 Harry Neale: Cam Neely and a 1st rd pick, 3rd overall, for Barry, "brocken wing ,Pederson what else needs to be said!

1985 - 1987 Jake Gordon: Who and what did he do?

1987 - 1998 Pat Quin: My god what to say, Linden, Bure, Mogilny, Naslund all the great things he did. But Keenan, Messier. screwing up the Gretzuy deal in the midle of the night. Screwing over Bure so he demanded a trade my god how does our greatest GM become our worst ever.

It boggles the mind!

1998 - 2004 Brian Burke: The blow-hard that walked like a man what did he ever do for the team?

Oh yes, he orchestrated the deal that got us the Sedins, that was some fine work I'll give him that!

2004 - 2008 Dave Nonis: Fixed the goally problem thtr Burkie refused to address during his tenure as GM.

Gave out 2nd round picks for borderline players on the way out of the league,

2008 - 200?? Mike Gillis: the jury is out, he robbed a desperate SJ for Ehrhoff then let him walk. Signed some very good players, both RFA and UFA to discounts.

Traded assets for Ballard, that has not worked out and acquired Booth for nothing but we really got nothing in return mainly due to injuries in this case.

Anybody saying Gillis is the worst GM in Canucks history knows nothing of history!

And it's like my grade ten history instructor told me: "Those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it"

Crap it was even more boring the next year!
But ... but ..... but the Dude said Eye Bags was the worst . Yeah no the Neely trade and the trade for Tiger the Hugger are two of the worst ten trades in NHL history. Milford and Jack Gordon are bar none the shittiest managers in hockey history let alone the Canucks. Elmers idols
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